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Why Canada and the U.S. Should Merge, Eh?
- kefs 13y agoThe North American Integration plan is already in full effect; the key to it's success is a gradual pace. http://wikileaks.ch/cable/2005/01/05OTTAWA268.html http://wikileaks.ch/cable/2005/01/05OTTAWA268.html Has anyone shopped at a Target Canada recently? Maybe say on, Black Friday (which meant absolutely nothing in Canada)? Oh hi, Verizon!
- Mikeb85 13y ago> Has anyone shopped at a Target Canada recently? Nope. Then again, I never shopped at whatever the Target stores used to be (K-Mart?).
- aclevernickname 13y agoZeller's
- na85 13y agoWhile I'm sure this is merely the WSJ's attempt to generate some controversy by coming back to this issue again, many don't seem to realize that a lot of the reasons against a US-Canada merger are not economic or financial, they are political/social. A lot of Canadians have a very contradictory love-hate relationship with the US. In fact a great deal of vitriol spewed at our current PM revolves around how his conduct and policies are too American in nature: pro-attack ads, anti-gun control, anti-abortion, naively pro-Israel, etc etc etc. There would be huge public opposition to such a merger in Canada.
- stevewillows 13y agoHow about we make a trade: we give most of Canada, but keep back Alberta and BC - - and also keep Washington and Oregon. We can call the country 'Cascadia with Alberta'. Maybe this will be Quebec's out too. All jokes aside, I hope that Canada never decides to merge with the US in anything that would make us 'one'.
- serge2k 13y agoCan we trade Northern California for Alberta?
- stevewillows 13y agoI was going to include Alberta until I checked the Cascadia stuff -- I think its only logical. Final call: BC, Washington, Oregon, Northern California, Alberta. It seems fair to me.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- peatmoss 13y agoWith Seattle as the new capital (being roughly midway between Portland and Vancouver). A man can dream.
- stevewillows 13y agoAnd David Bazan for president? It would be amazing if something like this actually happened.
- gruseom 13y agoThis is rather fun because Francis' arguments are so silly. "Grim existential challenges"? She had to invent some for the occasion. (Boo! the Chinese!) Canada is already under the U.S. security umbrella in every way that matters. As for how similar the two nations are (if you don't count French Canada), sure, and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_differences http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_differences. I live in what is arguably the most Americany of Canadian cities, and even here this idea isn't even a fringe position. I vaguely remember hearing years ago that some people had once proposed it, but it wasn't considered polite to mention who they were. If it ever turned into a political movement in Canada it would meet with overwhelming resistance. It's an identity thing.
- fatjokes 13y ago> I live in what is arguably the most Americany of Canadian cities Calgary?
- richardkiss 13y agoAs a Canadian who has lived in the US for a long time (but who happens to be in Canada at the moment to visit family), I've long thought a European-style union between the two countries would be a good idea. I think Canadians would like to keep their own laws and culture, because they wouldn't want to give up their health care system, legal system (which for some reason involves much less litigation and fewer lawyers), and much simpler tax law. Canadians have also mostly settled several of the large culture war issues that divide the US: they're happy with legal abortion, (mostly) illegal guns, and gay marriage, and are not interested in reopening debate on those issues. But allowing labour visa-free access and unifying financial systems would provide great benefits. Not to mention how much I hated the moronic hoops I had to jump through to get my green card.
- olalonde 13y agoAgreed. I would be all in for removing barriers to trade (including labor) but that's about it. Also, if Canada were to merge with US, Quebec would almost surely certainly become independent unless the CanadUS agrees to officially become a bilingual country.
- AaronIG 13y agoThe U.S. doesn't even have an official language, at the federal level, nor do some of the states. Hawaii has two official languages (English & Hawaiian). Some states have given Spanish and French special status, while others are de facto bilingual.
- vorg 13y ago> a European-style union between the two countries would be a good idea The E.U. was primarily a union between 4 equally-sized countries, i.e. Britain, France, Italy, and West Germany, each having about 60 million people and similar-sized economies. No single nation could lord it over the others, as would the US over Canada in a North American union.
- rralian 13y agoI can't imagine anything more than tighter economic integration actually happening, but it's a fun thought experiment to consider how a full-on merger would impact American politics. I (as an American) would certainly welcome the change and fresh perspective.
- gruseom 13y agoEven conservative politics in Canada are liberal (maybe even far liberal) by U.S. standards. The Senate would become a leftist bastion overnight!
- adventured 13y agoThis is a joke. It would be an incredible mistake for Canada to merge with America. Who would want to merge into the $17 trillion in public debt, the economy strictly dependent on 0% interest rates (aka inflation), the poverty, the vast welfare expenses (that we can't afford), the collapsing infrastructure, the 14% unemployment, the $700 billion in military expenditures, the 3/4 of a trillion dollar budget deficit, the hundreds of billions in trade deficit, and the $100+ trillion in entitlement liabilities - that America is drowning under? Canada lacks most of those problems currently, and certainly the relative scale of those problems. Why would Canada want to give up its countless unique national attributes? It would be smothered in any merger, and would see its national identity wiped out by a very obnoxiously aggressive US Federal Government. Canada is a far more polite, gentle country at a government level. America is a violent, aggressive, quasi police state. Canada's cities are some of the nicest on earth. The majority of large American cities are a wasteland of poverty and crime (10 out of the top 100 of the most violent large cities). Canada has nothing to gain and everything to lose by merging up. As it is they get the benefits of being next to the largest economy on earth, with none of the negatives of having to be governed by the politicians in DC. It will never happen.
- pswenson 13y agojust a few facts: Canada has more public debt than the US by percentage of GDP:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_deb... And Canada has a lower GDP growth rate. Unemployment rate is about the same (6.9% vs 7.0%) US inflation rates are very low right now (~1% for 2013): http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/ http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-infla... Crime rates in the US are at historic lows: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/06/11/12170947-fbi-violent-crime-rates-in-the-us-drop-approach-historic-lows http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/06/11/12170947-fbi-viol...
- na85 13y agoThey might be at historic lows, but crime rates in the US, particularly gun-related crime, remains absurdly high when compared with the rest of the world. You can compare the gun deaths in the US with the gun deaths in 12 or 13 other countries whose populations sum to be approximately that of the US and note that the gun deaths in those countries are significantly lower.
- cgh 13y agoDiane Francis has an agenda and should be ignored. She's long been considered a fringe figure in Canada and writes these sorts of things to sell her books. Her general technique is to frame an "us against them" argument that Canada cannot possibly survive unless we do something ridiculously dramatic, namely adopt the US dollar and/or merge with the US.
- gruseom 13y agoSo basically a political troll. That does explain it. But why the WSJ? Maybe it's a better way to troll Canadians to get an article like this in the US press?
- conjecTech 13y agoI think the quality of the relationship is maintained to a large extent because of the separation. It reminds me a bit of the Mending Wall by Frost: 'Good fences make good neighbors'.
- hack4supper 13y ago+1
- pkroll 13y agoYeah, you might wanna take a read of that one again: the neighbor who wants to stop mending the fence, is making fun of the neighbor who won't stop repeating "good fences make good neighbors."
- BrainInAJar 13y agoAs a Canadian, kindly fuck off. We don't want to be part of your mess of a country.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- tsotha 13y agoDon't worry. We don't want you.
- caiob 13y agoWhere do I sign?
- lizardking 13y agoSee, not all Canadians are polite.
- beloch 13y agoConsider how the U.S. treats Canadian interests under current conditions. They slap protectionist tariffs on our resources and then institute protectionist polices locking Canadian companies out of U.S. government contracts while simultaneously lobbying the Canadian government to consider U.S. companies for it's public contracts first. This "merger" would further erode Canada's ability to oppose U.S. protectionism while providing little in return. I'm not even going to start going into the privacy concerns. Becoming the 51st state would actually be a superior option, because at least then we'd have representation in the U.S. government. This merger would make Canada more like a colony!
- ksec 13y agoI am so glad to see there are people in the world that actually understand how US works.
- Mikeb85 13y agoThis will never happen. Canadians don't want to merge with the US. We (subjectively) think our country is much nicer, despite it being encased in snow and ice for half the year (it's minus 30 degrees with over a foot of snow right now!). Our cultures are quite different, and only the US has anything to gain from a merger. We have everything to lose.
- aassaass 13y agoGood counter-argument: Jonathan Kay: Diane Francis’ plan to merge Canada and the United States has many, many problems http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/09/28/jonathan-kay-diane-francis-plan-to-merge-canada-and-the-united-states-has-many-many-problems/ http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/09/28/jonathan-kay-...
- Tzunamitom 13y agoI can't help but think that this would be a vastly better deal for the US than Canada. Canada already enjoys much of the benefits touted for a merger (protection of its neighbour, Free trade access to a massive market) while the US has much to gain (massive resources, land, water, better healthcare). Assuming there was as much in common politically and socially as suggested (there most certainly isn't) the US's stock is very much in decline while Canada's is very much in ascendancy. The only way a merger could happen would be as a merger of equals necessitated by bigger global threats alongside dramatic social reform/normalisation in the US (I.e. The US starts to catch up with the rest of the Western world in terms of social maturity).