8 ms·

Guy tries to sell chinese watch Z3 as his own work

154 points by guardian5x 13y ago

mxchael 13y ago
Again. This happened before and a lot of blogs even promoted the product that time.
girvo 13y ago
The comments are interesting. I suppose it's a "internet justice" thing: expose the scammer, so others don't make the mistake of backing them, and you get to attack someone you don't know. Win win? /shrugs, I would've just posted a comment saying that with the info that's come to light I can no longer back this, and pull my money out and move on. To each their own, I always find how people deal with things like this on the net really interesting.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
izqui 13y ago
The funny thing about the whole thing is that people are actually pledging to the project just for commenting in the Kickstarter project thread...
dagw 13y ago
I've seen this happen several times on Kickstarter with various products. Every time I've seen it though the project gets called out before the end of the funding period. I'm sure the Kickstarter people are aware of the problem, but at the end of the day caveat emptor.
- girvo 13y ago
  A lot of backers for Kickstarter still don't understand that, years on. With the exception of some artistic projects, anyway, but even they are not immune (see any StarCraft doco for example). It's more like an investment in an idea, and people should treat it as such, but I think it's in KickStarter's interest to keep that confusion around...
stinos 13y ago
Well at least if you get ripped it's only for 100-200$ or so. Which is better than http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wjsteele/ultra-bot-3d-printer http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wjsteele/ultra-bot-3d-pr... where people lose >1000$, and kickstarter does not do anything at all about it.
- aristidesfl 13y ago
  What happened with ultra bot?
  - martey 13y ago
    The project creator is claiming that he is filing for bankruptcy: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wjsteele/ultra-bot-3d-printer/comments?cursor=5182715#comment-5182714 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wjsteele/ultra-bot-3d-pr...
    - Argorak 13y ago
      Which is precisely the right thing when this happens. So what?
      - stinos 13y ago
        Well the problem seems to be it's just a claim This morning I received a return phone call from the Indiana Southern Bankruptcy Court regarding my inquiry about Mr. Steele's bankruptcy claim. They have searched all the courts in the US and could not find any bankruptcy filings moreover if you read the comments it's obvious the creator hasn't been honest, and possibly took his IP to some other company. Possibly, cause it's again hard to verify.
        Argorak 13y ago
        Which all previous posters expected me to extract from a wall of text that runs from here to Dubai :). Thanks for clarifying!
lyndonh 13y ago
I love the fake "we can't show the name or number of our patents because of IP concerns" excuse. a.) If the patent is easy to work around then it's not worth the paper it's written on b.) You can't be saying you don't want anyone to know the details because you're not going to defend the patent by taking legal action against infringers, because you've already published how the idea works c.) If you're patenting it in order to stop someone else claiming the IP, then why care if everyone knows what the idea is ? Why not publish the idea online as a freely downloadable paper ?
- makomk 13y ago
  Also, won't they have to mark the finished product with the patent numbers anyway if they want the patents to remain valid?
  - andrewcooke 13y ago
    this really annoyed me with my latest iphone. so many patents engraved on the the thing that the screen was illegible except for a small space top right corner.
  - pbhjpbhj 13y ago
    No. Patents are kept in force by paying the renewal fees. Adding patent numbers could mean that extra punitive damages are able to be sought as if copying can be proven it can also be shown that the infringer knew of the patents. Jurisdiction dependent.
- pbhjpbhj 13y ago
  If a person is an assignee for a patent then you can look it up in the USPTO or other regional database.
austinz 13y ago
Ugly trying-to-be-slick graphics and pictures, page upon page of content-free typo-ridden copy full to the brim with marketing bullshit, and meaningless tech specs (ooh, an embedded microcontroller with a low power mode...never seen those before). This wasn't even a well-done scam. EDIT: Also, Android on a Cortex-M3 (according to their video). Yeah, sure, whatever you say.
dylz 13y ago
This doesn't even look like the kind of standard hipster kickstarter page you'd see, it looks far more like quite literal spam you'd find on ebay auctions or something, crappy image tables, schizo bolded text..
- mathattack 13y ago
  It amazes me that spam style works
  - dylz 13y ago
    Don't forget copious misuse of shitty clipart.
  - cclogg 13y ago
    Totally lol. The funniest thing is the chart of comparisons... so many of the rows are just random things that give this watch extra checkmarks.
    - nnnnni 13y ago
      Ha, so I'm not the only one who has noticed that most of those "let's compare our product to other similar products" tables are full of superfluous stuff that's obviously just there to pad them with checkmarks?
      - GhotiFish 13y ago
        i think it's fair to refer to that technique as "The Microsoft"
    - kubiiii 13y ago
      is called "rock" |rock (the watch) > check | rock (the actor) > check| samsung galaxy gear > x| ...
    - lewispollard 13y ago
      Ha, first thing I noticed too. Those corporate smartwatch bastards don't have the Rockin' 12 app or Rock Micro Tracker & App! What kind of an idiot do they think I am! They're essential! I also like how only this watch has the Qi battery (and separate associated checkboxes for all the charging accessories as if you'd get one without the other), but all the others seem to have a "Qi battery life"
axx 13y ago
I've never liked Kickstarter. It's a nice idea and all, but there is so much room for failure and scam. I'm sure they're motivated as hell to bring great products and on kickstarters site, they're motivated too to support those projects. But more often than not, there are people, without any knowledge on how to develop products, that i'm way to scared to give them any money. Oh, and since a few big projects, it's only one piece of the marketing bullshit-bubble. Everyone tries to use Kickstarter as a marketing channel and people that want to solve real problems aren't mentioned anywhere. I mean, why the fuck to rich people need to use kickstarter? There are enough examples, where people with huge piles of money try to finance their projects on kickstarter. Use your own money, damn it.
- Semaphor 13y ago
  > I've never liked Kickstarter. It's a nice idea and all, but there is so much room for failure and scam. It depends how you use it. If you use it as a store, yes (though the risk can be minimized by due diligence). > and people that want to solve real problems aren't mentioned anywhere. What are real problems? For me a real problem was (or rather will hopefully) be solved by the Hot Smartwatch. > why the fuck to rich people need to use kickstarter? It's a great tool to test the waters. If you don't get funded, you probably would have thrown your money down the drain. Also I don't see a problem with using KS as a marketing tool, though the extra attention KS gets in media will probably die down in another year or two (It's already not as effective as it was at the beginning).
  - mavhc 13y ago
    Can't you sell shares in the company to achieve the same thing? I'd split the thing into Kickstarter for art, and Kickstarter for products for a start
    - Semaphor 13y ago
      I'd imagine selling shares would be way more complicated. Plus, you completely lose the gauge consumer interest part. Buying shares you have to think about if other people want it. Right now you only have to think about if YOU want it.
ehmuidifici 13y ago
It looks like the "jeitinho brasileiro" (aka Brazilian Lifestyle) is wildspreading across the world.
- scardine 13y ago
  Your translation is wrong. This expression (jeitinho brazileiro) is Portuguese for "Brazilian arrangement" - like in "officer, I know I was above the speed limit, but can we make an arrangement?". It is related to bribery, not to scams. If you are not Brazilian, it is a racist statement, if you are it is a shameful display of low self esteem.
  - ehmuidifici 13y ago
    Are you sure that's realated only to bribery? The "Brazilian arrangement" goes beyond that. Also, if you are not Brazilian, come visit Rio or Sao Paulo and ask for a taxi. The taxi driver will give you a "jeitinho" (a way) to steal your money putting you in a wrong route. And take a look at the Fifa world cup stadiums built. Someone did a "jeitinho" (or a way) to elevate their final cost or in other words, stealing public resources (money came by taxes, paid by people). I can give you a ton of examples, but nevermind, even with my low self esteem.... But if you are Brazilian, please open your eyes and get out of your bubble.
- arielserafini 13y ago
  Kudos for a simple-minded comment.
deletes 13y ago
What if the project is actually honest. They are using a generic watch manufactured by some Chinese company, which means almost visually identical watches already exist on the market. They value they are adding are the custom operating system, apps and connectivity. EDIT: I encourage anyone to comment.
- estel 13y ago
  I could entirely believe that to be the case, but the creator's alleged responses on the comments page would seem to cast doubt on him at least telling the truth about that.
- lanaius 13y ago
  They have a lot of shots of hardware design and testing that at most charitable strongly imply they built the hardware from the bottom up. Having done so and then being intentionally vague about any of the hardware is offsetting. That's not to mention the fact that the ONLY stretch goals are about making more apps for the watch. If you're serious about building a smartwatch you better offer people a damn good reason to buy it, not sit on your ass waiting for people to pay you to make the thing useful.
- Nursie 13y ago
  If they said that, fine. It's not what's said though. They make claims to be the hardware developer, with lots of pictures of circuitry and apparent prototyping. It smells like a scam.
- drzaiusapelord 13y ago
  I don't recall the name of the product but there's this little bluetooth bracelet you can buy that got big on kickstarter. Turns out that its almost identical to one at alibaba.com. The guy running the kickstarter said that they more or less copied the physical design but modified the internals a bit for better BT connectivity and to a newer version of BT. This could be going on here with the Z3 watch. Instead, we have an out of control witchhunt. I think it makes a lot more financial sense to modify a proven design than to start from scratch. If you're on kick starter, you probably don't have deep pockets and an engineering department to begin with. Not to mention that hardware is kinda a commodity now. Good software is the hard nut to crack. Think CM vs Touchwiz on the same phone.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
fsiaf 13y ago
Can we send this guy to jail or do something to him?
- evacuationdrill 13y ago
  For what, rebranding?
- TallGuyShort 13y ago
  There are times when all of us are jerks, or morons, or both. We should certainly shun such behavior, but I don't get this knee-jerk reaction to sent the sucker to jail. Which law did he violate, and which government has jurisdiction over it, and in what way are you a victim? Answer all three and yes, you can actually send him to jail.
brk 13y ago
I've been paying mild attention to Kickstarter for a while now. I still don't get the "it's not a store" argument (well, I understand their positioning on it). I figured the SEC would step in by now. You give some money, and you get some (generally speaking) 1-time tangible thing back. You don't get future profits, earnings, votes, etc. in the company that created the project. Sure, you can call the funds a "pledge", a "a donation", whatever. But you're not giving money to non-profit organizations, and you're generally giving the "pledge" expecting a specific thing in return for your pledge. This is very different than dropping $100 in a Salvation Army donation box (at least to me). Kickstarter is not a store the way PayPal is not a bank, it's just that Kickstarter hasn't yet fully caught up to PayPal's level of anti-customer business.
- jasonlotito 13y ago
  > Sure, you can call the funds a "pledge" It is a pledge. You are pledging to give money, but not actually giving it. If they are successfully pledged enough money at the end of the time, everyone is charged. However, that doesn't mean everyone is successfully charged. It's well established that there are people who pledge but don't pay. You could meet your pledge requirements, but still have less in funding that you needed (discounting the known cut KS and CC companies take). Point is, it's a pledge. > I still don't get the "it's not a store" argument. What don't you get? > You give some money, and you get some (generally speaking) 1-time tangible thing back. Ahh. You are missing some parts. What you really mean to say is this: "You pledge to give them some money in the hopes other people pledge as well so that they meat some minimum requirement. If enough is pledged, the company can then continue working on whatever project they were trying to fund. Things can and will change. You may eventually get something back. You may not. It make take years longer. It may be different from what you originally pledged for. It's not always a 1-time tangible thing back." If that's your idea of a store...
  - brk 13y ago
    Yes, I fully realize that Kickstarter is not directly a store. You're not pledging money towards immediately available products. They've added some unique factors to it. Otherwise, we would have never heard of them in the first place. But calling it a pledge just because there are caveats attached still does not (IMO) change what people SEE Kickstarter as... I haven't heard from too many people that "pledged" money into a successfully funded project that never delivered walk away saying "Oh well, no big deal". Kickstarter is basically leading people to believe they are going to get something very specific in return for their money. The projects even list higher-valued items for higher pledge amounts. This is much more "store"-like than it is not.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
downer91 13y ago
A true hipster would be imitating this guy's spamtastic style with a sense of irony. Hey, that gives me an idea...
raganwald 13y ago
The bottom line with Kickstarter is that it's a great idea, but 1. It's vulnerable to gaming, and 2. There are financial rewards for gaming Kickstarter. I conjecture that 3. It will become overrun with flim-flam projects if it does not change to correct 1 and/or 2. The stories are few and far between today, but inexorably there will be more and more scams. Why not? It's relatively cheap to put a scam project together, and the upside is tremendous. We can argue about whether Kickstarter is or isn't a store until we've consumed all the oxygen in the room, but the real question is this: Are things going to get better? Stay about the same? Or get worse? I say thing will get much, much worse unless they make changes of some kind.
- pyduan 13y ago
  I know Indiegogo is hard at work towards building automated scam/fraud detection systems. I work in this space (I build such systems for Eventbrite) and from my conversation with them it seems they're new to these problems but are making them a priority. Now Indiegogo has a slightly different model (campaigns can be created by anyone and are not curated) than Kickstarter that makes it more of a priority for them, but hopefully with the recent cases of fraud on Kickstarter they're putting more work into prevention as well. All in all, I don't think it's an inescapable problem. It is perfectly possible to build scam-detection systems (we do so at Eventbrite, to prevent people pretending to be selling tickets for an event they're not actually organizers of), and although it's not easy as these crowd-sourcing grow larger they'll hopefully have more resources to put behind it. [1] Like this guy: http://www.onthemedia.org/story/new-kind-kickstarter-scam-backer/ http://www.onthemedia.org/story/new-kind-kickstarter-scam-ba...
abdelhai 13y ago
“The Rock – The World’s Most Complete Smartest Lifestyle Smartwatch” .. please tell me it's a joke, that people actually gave him 37K!!
nsxwolf 13y ago
Very difficult to parse that headline.
jxf 13y ago
Summary of events if you don't want to read the entire comment thread just to discover what the heck the title of this post is talking about: 1. Kickstarter campaign for a new high-tech smart-watch launches. The creator, "Vak", responds to a few questions on the watch about specs and hardware in a noncommital, generic way that doesn't reveal a lot of details. 2. Skepticism increases when one customer claims that the watch is apparently identical to a Z3, a watch with similar specs, which they already own. They provide pictures and proof that indicate that the Vak may literally be using the Z3 itself in all the photos and just switching out the wristbands. [0] 3. A minor firestorm erupts in the comments; people accuse Vak of scamming them. [1] 4. Vak asks for time to construct a Kickstarter update, saying that the deluge of comments makes it impossible to respond individually. 5. A few days later, Vak responds to the points raised in the original accusation. [2] 6. ... and keeps responding with the same message, dozens of times. He (or someone using his account) repeatedly posts the same message, over and over and over, to the Kickstarter thread, in response to any skeptical questions. 7. Vak says "it wasn't me!" [3] Pretty much no one believes him. 8. Article gets posted to HN. [0] http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/253126792/rocktm-first-qi-wifi-lifestyle-smartwatch-wireless/comments?cursor=5344542#comment-5344541 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/253126792/rocktm-first-q... [1] http://i.imgur.com/8IyxKTC.png http://i.imgur.com/8IyxKTC.png [2] http://i.imgur.com/Fa2101J.png http://i.imgur.com/Fa2101J.png [3] http://i.imgur.com/Sy7BfL9.png http://i.imgur.com/Sy7BfL9.png
- semenko 13y ago
  The PCB they show (https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/935/465/b197830112a246380f07a938072e3883_large.JPG?1379556465 https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/935/465/b197830112a2...) … has the model number (S2122B) of the SmartQ Z3 watch, too. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2501598 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2501598
- Vak-fraud 13y ago
  LOL this guy is a fraud all around let's start with his linkedin profile: You know someone is full of shit when their linkedin profile looks like this... So he jumped from R&D Engineer | Marketing Dept SMC Networks TO: Founder/CEO MedMania Inc CEO/Founder Campusbug.com (lol at this site) Principal Partner WebNative Co-Founder Pageable.com ( lol co-founded a site that isn't even up) Chief Product Zen Officer Pivot HQ ( look he is the CPO of this lovely company http://pivothq.webs.com/ http://pivothq.webs.com/) General Partner/Co-Founder Bullear Partners (googled this and there isn't even a firm by this name) Cofounder/Principal Managing Director Techzulu.com (legit news site for socal but don't see his name anywhere on the website as founder?) Principal Managing Director Crushspot.com (is this his attempt to find a girlfriend) Mentor and Advisor FastStart.studio(I don't see him on this site anywhere as mentor?) Founder Rockfield Labs (who the fuck lists themselves as a founder of a meetup group? you organized a meetup group that has had 4 meetups in the last 2 years and you are some sort of founder?) Startup Fanboy/Founder Duocampus (This looks like a damn furniture store... co-work space? really? only thing correct in this whole resume is "startup fanboy" looks like he tries to make fake companies or ride the coat tails of real entrepreneurs) Head of Technology Concert BC (sorry but who ever is getting consultating from this company is getting ripped off if this guy can't even answer simple questions about specs on a product he supposedly made. http://www.concertbc.com/portfolio/vak-sambath-head-technology http://www.concertbc.com/portfolio/vak-sambath-head-technolo...) CTO/CPO Deka (lol this guy is a joke look for him at 1:15 in the video... so he was the CTO/CPO of a failed indiegogo campaign) President Rock™ Smartwatch (let's see how this train wreck ends) What an impressive resume huh? more like what a load of shit. Googled him further: Supposedly he has a 500,000 fund? "- Money. That’s right—I have partnered with a $500K fund, through Anonymous Angels, that is focused on mobile apps & games. The sole requirement is that you have been a current member of BLANKSPACES for a month. Thanks Vak Sambath!" reference: http://www.blankspaces.com/blog/02/21/blankspaces-returns-to-santa-monica/ http://www.blankspaces.com/blog/02/21/blankspaces-returns-to... LMAO at this joke http://www.vaksambath.com/ http://www.vaksambath.com/ ... save yourself time and scroll to the bottom and read that load of shit... with someone with many failed companies he tries to "crush others dreams" can we ban this guy from anything Tech or just in life general This guy is pathetic "When asked what’s next for the app, Vak mentioned that they are developing RodeDog to work with various mobile providers. “We are building out the app for Google’s Android and Windows mobile and we hope to get the app in iTunes in spite of Apple’s restrictions.”" LOOK AT 0:31 on this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5Lt5U_pVCA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5Lt5U_pVCA He is the spokes person for ClipRoadie and then all of the sudden he is on the other team that conveniently won? Wait so did he win or did the 12 year old girl win... or are they the same person... maybe he is the 12 year old girl? LOL maybe we should just give him a call... it only cost $1/min https://clarity.fm/vaksambath https://clarity.fm/vaksambath or we could socialcam him https://socialcam.com/u/Fk6y66Ob https://socialcam.com/u/Fk6y66Ob I wonder what 103 domain names he owes lmao http://reversewhois.domaintools.com/vak-sambath http://reversewhois.domaintools.com/vak-sambath I should be a private investigator but I couldn't help but find more about this guy after reading this post. Can someone from Orange County please go pay him a visit at one of his many offices or his cowork space. Go have a meal with him lmao... this is quoted from his website vaksambath.com "Let Me Crush Your Dreams Or Not...over a meal. Please :) If you're why is any one of these, then let's do lunch. I love free meals. Not sure what's better though: eating the actual meal or the idea? Hehe. Jk. I'll be gentle."
aye 13y ago
This guy, uses, a lot of commas, when he speaks. He's kind of, got, a Christopher Walken, thing, going on.
- PLenz 13y ago
  Thanks-now, I'm reading, everything-aaaahhhh,this way
- schenecstasy 13y ago
  If we don't, get, to fifty thouSAND, in about, thirty days, then, the whole, y'know, project goes, unfunded.
schenecstasy 13y ago
Small Business Evangelist | Serial Technologist | E-Commerce Platform Idealogist GROAN
Mikeb85 13y ago
To be fair, the maker of the Z3 watch does brand themselves as an OEM... Too bad the Kickstarter guy wasn't just a little more upfront about what clearly seems to be a rebranded watch...
- JVIDEL 13y ago
  They never are, none of those projects for Android stick computers said it was the same lowend generic stuff the Chinese sell for forty bucks.
CervezaPorFavor 13y ago
The intro video already has a few red flags to show that he doesn't know what he's talking about (or he's not being honest): - He considers the 240x240 display an HD display - He claims the watch has 4GB of RAM His Kickstarter page is so full of BS materials that anyone with just a little bit of common sense and technical knowledge about smartphones should be able to tell this is not a legitimate project.
rickinhk 13y ago
This guy is now using the same excuse that he used on day 1 (the team are on holiday so I can't make specific replies). It's just a joke. 4GB of ROM and 4GB of RAM? The iPhone 5S has 1GB of RAM, what the hell would you need with the rest? At least he's removed some of his claims (it is waterproof, oops now it's not; the screen is 1080p - with a 250 x 250 screen? WTF?). His last update focuses on the money going to software development (basically, the watch is the cheap Chinese Z3 watch that we bought in bulk from alibaba.com, but the apps are different). He is just full of shit and avoids all the questions that he knows the answers to (the ones that he doesn't want to reveal publicly). From the 'my account was hacked' spamming to the bullshit on his own website (want to make a quick buck? I'll show you how) his is a scam, 100%.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
mumbo-jumbo 13y ago
The project has finally been suspended by Kickstarter. Now this guy is removing all his pictures and bio links from the project page!

154 points by guardian5x 13y ago

Again. This happened before and a lot of blogs even promoted the product that time.

girvo 13y ago

The comments are interesting. I suppose it's a "internet justice" thing: expose the scammer, so others don't make the mistake of backing them, and you get to attack someone you don't know. Win win? /shrugs, I would've just posted a comment saying that with the info that's come to light I can no longer back this, and pull my money out and move on. To each their own, I always find how people deal with things like this on the net really interesting.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

izqui 13y ago

The funny thing about the whole thing is that people are actually pledging to the project just for commenting in the Kickstarter project thread...

dagw 13y ago

I've seen this happen several times on Kickstarter with various products. Every time I've seen it though the project gets called out before the end of the funding period. I'm sure the Kickstarter people are aware of the problem, but at the end of the day caveat emptor.

girvo 13y ago
A lot of backers for Kickstarter still don't understand that, years on. With the exception of some artistic projects, anyway, but even they are not immune (see any StarCraft doco for example). It's more like an investment in an idea, and people should treat it as such, but I think it's in KickStarter's interest to keep that confusion around...

stinos 13y ago

Well at least if you get ripped it's only for 100-200$ or so. Which is better than http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wjsteele/ultra-bot-3d-printer http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wjsteele/ultra-bot-3d-pr... where people lose >1000$, and kickstarter does not do anything at all about it.

aristidesfl 13y ago
What happened with ultra bot?
- martey 13y ago
  The project creator is claiming that he is filing for bankruptcy: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wjsteele/ultra-bot-3d-printer/comments?cursor=5182715#comment-5182714 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wjsteele/ultra-bot-3d-pr...
  - Argorak 13y ago
    Which is precisely the right thing when this happens. So what?
    - stinos 13y ago
      Well the problem seems to be it's just a claim This morning I received a return phone call from the Indiana Southern Bankruptcy Court regarding my inquiry about Mr. Steele's bankruptcy claim. They have searched all the courts in the US and could not find any bankruptcy filings moreover if you read the comments it's obvious the creator hasn't been honest, and possibly took his IP to some other company. Possibly, cause it's again hard to verify.
      - Argorak 13y ago
        Which all previous posters expected me to extract from a wall of text that runs from here to Dubai :). Thanks for clarifying!

lyndonh 13y ago

I love the fake "we can't show the name or number of our patents because of IP concerns" excuse. a.) If the patent is easy to work around then it's not worth the paper it's written on b.) You can't be saying you don't want anyone to know the details because you're not going to defend the patent by taking legal action against infringers, because you've already published how the idea works c.) If you're patenting it in order to stop someone else claiming the IP, then why care if everyone knows what the idea is ? Why not publish the idea online as a freely downloadable paper ?

makomk 13y ago
Also, won't they have to mark the finished product with the patent numbers anyway if they want the patents to remain valid?
- andrewcooke 13y ago
  this really annoyed me with my latest iphone. so many patents engraved on the the thing that the screen was illegible except for a small space top right corner.
- pbhjpbhj 13y ago
  No. Patents are kept in force by paying the renewal fees. Adding patent numbers could mean that extra punitive damages are able to be sought as if copying can be proven it can also be shown that the infringer knew of the patents. Jurisdiction dependent.
pbhjpbhj 13y ago
If a person is an assignee for a patent then you can look it up in the USPTO or other regional database.

austinz 13y ago

Ugly trying-to-be-slick graphics and pictures, page upon page of content-free typo-ridden copy full to the brim with marketing bullshit, and meaningless tech specs (ooh, an embedded microcontroller with a low power mode...never seen those before). This wasn't even a well-done scam. EDIT: Also, Android on a Cortex-M3 (according to their video). Yeah, sure, whatever you say.

dylz 13y ago

This doesn't even look like the kind of standard hipster kickstarter page you'd see, it looks far more like quite literal spam you'd find on ebay auctions or something, crappy image tables, schizo bolded text..

mathattack 13y ago
It amazes me that spam style works
- dylz 13y ago
  Don't forget copious misuse of shitty clipart.
- cclogg 13y ago
  Totally lol. The funniest thing is the chart of comparisons... so many of the rows are just random things that give this watch extra checkmarks.
  - nnnnni 13y ago
    Ha, so I'm not the only one who has noticed that most of those "let's compare our product to other similar products" tables are full of superfluous stuff that's obviously just there to pad them with checkmarks?
    - GhotiFish 13y ago
      i think it's fair to refer to that technique as "The Microsoft"
  - kubiiii 13y ago
    is called "rock" |rock (the watch) > check | rock (the actor) > check| samsung galaxy gear > x| ...
  - lewispollard 13y ago
    Ha, first thing I noticed too. Those corporate smartwatch bastards don't have the Rockin' 12 app or Rock Micro Tracker & App! What kind of an idiot do they think I am! They're essential! I also like how only this watch has the Qi battery (and separate associated checkboxes for all the charging accessories as if you'd get one without the other), but all the others seem to have a "Qi battery life"

axx 13y ago

I've never liked Kickstarter. It's a nice idea and all, but there is so much room for failure and scam. I'm sure they're motivated as hell to bring great products and on kickstarters site, they're motivated too to support those projects. But more often than not, there are people, without any knowledge on how to develop products, that i'm way to scared to give them any money. Oh, and since a few big projects, it's only one piece of the marketing bullshit-bubble. Everyone tries to use Kickstarter as a marketing channel and people that want to solve real problems aren't mentioned anywhere. I mean, why the fuck to rich people need to use kickstarter? There are enough examples, where people with huge piles of money try to finance their projects on kickstarter. Use your own money, damn it.

Semaphor 13y ago
> I've never liked Kickstarter. It's a nice idea and all, but there is so much room for failure and scam. It depends how you use it. If you use it as a store, yes (though the risk can be minimized by due diligence). > and people that want to solve real problems aren't mentioned anywhere. What are real problems? For me a real problem was (or rather will hopefully) be solved by the Hot Smartwatch. > why the fuck to rich people need to use kickstarter? It's a great tool to test the waters. If you don't get funded, you probably would have thrown your money down the drain. Also I don't see a problem with using KS as a marketing tool, though the extra attention KS gets in media will probably die down in another year or two (It's already not as effective as it was at the beginning).
- mavhc 13y ago
  Can't you sell shares in the company to achieve the same thing? I'd split the thing into Kickstarter for art, and Kickstarter for products for a start
  - Semaphor 13y ago
    I'd imagine selling shares would be way more complicated. Plus, you completely lose the gauge consumer interest part. Buying shares you have to think about if other people want it. Right now you only have to think about if YOU want it.

ehmuidifici 13y ago

It looks like the "jeitinho brasileiro" (aka Brazilian Lifestyle) is wildspreading across the world.

scardine 13y ago
Your translation is wrong. This expression (jeitinho brazileiro) is Portuguese for "Brazilian arrangement" - like in "officer, I know I was above the speed limit, but can we make an arrangement?". It is related to bribery, not to scams. If you are not Brazilian, it is a racist statement, if you are it is a shameful display of low self esteem.
- ehmuidifici 13y ago
  Are you sure that's realated only to bribery? The "Brazilian arrangement" goes beyond that. Also, if you are not Brazilian, come visit Rio or Sao Paulo and ask for a taxi. The taxi driver will give you a "jeitinho" (a way) to steal your money putting you in a wrong route. And take a look at the Fifa world cup stadiums built. Someone did a "jeitinho" (or a way) to elevate their final cost or in other words, stealing public resources (money came by taxes, paid by people). I can give you a ton of examples, but nevermind, even with my low self esteem.... But if you are Brazilian, please open your eyes and get out of your bubble.
arielserafini 13y ago
Kudos for a simple-minded comment.

deletes 13y ago

What if the project is actually honest. They are using a generic watch manufactured by some Chinese company, which means almost visually identical watches already exist on the market. They value they are adding are the custom operating system, apps and connectivity. EDIT: I encourage anyone to comment.

estel 13y ago
I could entirely believe that to be the case, but the creator's alleged responses on the comments page would seem to cast doubt on him at least telling the truth about that.
lanaius 13y ago
They have a lot of shots of hardware design and testing that at most charitable strongly imply they built the hardware from the bottom up. Having done so and then being intentionally vague about any of the hardware is offsetting. That's not to mention the fact that the ONLY stretch goals are about making more apps for the watch. If you're serious about building a smartwatch you better offer people a damn good reason to buy it, not sit on your ass waiting for people to pay you to make the thing useful.
Nursie 13y ago
If they said that, fine. It's not what's said though. They make claims to be the hardware developer, with lots of pictures of circuitry and apparent prototyping. It smells like a scam.
drzaiusapelord 13y ago
I don't recall the name of the product but there's this little bluetooth bracelet you can buy that got big on kickstarter. Turns out that its almost identical to one at alibaba.com. The guy running the kickstarter said that they more or less copied the physical design but modified the internals a bit for better BT connectivity and to a newer version of BT. This could be going on here with the Z3 watch. Instead, we have an out of control witchhunt. I think it makes a lot more financial sense to modify a proven design than to start from scratch. If you're on kick starter, you probably don't have deep pockets and an engineering department to begin with. Not to mention that hardware is kinda a commodity now. Good software is the hard nut to crack. Think CM vs Touchwiz on the same phone.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

fsiaf 13y ago

Can we send this guy to jail or do something to him?

evacuationdrill 13y ago
For what, rebranding?
TallGuyShort 13y ago
There are times when all of us are jerks, or morons, or both. We should certainly shun such behavior, but I don't get this knee-jerk reaction to sent the sucker to jail. Which law did he violate, and which government has jurisdiction over it, and in what way are you a victim? Answer all three and yes, you can actually send him to jail.

brk 13y ago

I've been paying mild attention to Kickstarter for a while now. I still don't get the "it's not a store" argument (well, I understand their positioning on it). I figured the SEC would step in by now. You give some money, and you get some (generally speaking) 1-time tangible thing back. You don't get future profits, earnings, votes, etc. in the company that created the project. Sure, you can call the funds a "pledge", a "a donation", whatever. But you're not giving money to non-profit organizations, and you're generally giving the "pledge" expecting a specific thing in return for your pledge. This is very different than dropping $100 in a Salvation Army donation box (at least to me). Kickstarter is not a store the way PayPal is not a bank, it's just that Kickstarter hasn't yet fully caught up to PayPal's level of anti-customer business.

jasonlotito 13y ago
> Sure, you can call the funds a "pledge" It is a pledge. You are pledging to give money, but not actually giving it. If they are successfully pledged enough money at the end of the time, everyone is charged. However, that doesn't mean everyone is successfully charged. It's well established that there are people who pledge but don't pay. You could meet your pledge requirements, but still have less in funding that you needed (discounting the known cut KS and CC companies take). Point is, it's a pledge. > I still don't get the "it's not a store" argument. What don't you get? > You give some money, and you get some (generally speaking) 1-time tangible thing back. Ahh. You are missing some parts. What you really mean to say is this: "You pledge to give them some money in the hopes other people pledge as well so that they meat some minimum requirement. If enough is pledged, the company can then continue working on whatever project they were trying to fund. Things can and will change. You may eventually get something back. You may not. It make take years longer. It may be different from what you originally pledged for. It's not always a 1-time tangible thing back." If that's your idea of a store...
- brk 13y ago
  Yes, I fully realize that Kickstarter is not directly a store. You're not pledging money towards immediately available products. They've added some unique factors to it. Otherwise, we would have never heard of them in the first place. But calling it a pledge just because there are caveats attached still does not (IMO) change what people SEE Kickstarter as... I haven't heard from too many people that "pledged" money into a successfully funded project that never delivered walk away saying "Oh well, no big deal". Kickstarter is basically leading people to believe they are going to get something very specific in return for their money. The projects even list higher-valued items for higher pledge amounts. This is much more "store"-like than it is not.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

downer91 13y ago

A true hipster would be imitating this guy's spamtastic style with a sense of irony. Hey, that gives me an idea...

raganwald 13y ago

The bottom line with Kickstarter is that it's a great idea, but 1. It's vulnerable to gaming, and 2. There are financial rewards for gaming Kickstarter. I conjecture that 3. It will become overrun with flim-flam projects if it does not change to correct 1 and/or 2. The stories are few and far between today, but inexorably there will be more and more scams. Why not? It's relatively cheap to put a scam project together, and the upside is tremendous. We can argue about whether Kickstarter is or isn't a store until we've consumed all the oxygen in the room, but the real question is this: Are things going to get better? Stay about the same? Or get worse? I say thing will get much, much worse unless they make changes of some kind.

pyduan 13y ago
I know Indiegogo is hard at work towards building automated scam/fraud detection systems. I work in this space (I build such systems for Eventbrite) and from my conversation with them it seems they're new to these problems but are making them a priority. Now Indiegogo has a slightly different model (campaigns can be created by anyone and are not curated) than Kickstarter that makes it more of a priority for them, but hopefully with the recent cases of fraud on Kickstarter they're putting more work into prevention as well. All in all, I don't think it's an inescapable problem. It is perfectly possible to build scam-detection systems (we do so at Eventbrite, to prevent people pretending to be selling tickets for an event they're not actually organizers of), and although it's not easy as these crowd-sourcing grow larger they'll hopefully have more resources to put behind it. [1] Like this guy: http://www.onthemedia.org/story/new-kind-kickstarter-scam-backer/ http://www.onthemedia.org/story/new-kind-kickstarter-scam-ba...

abdelhai 13y ago

“The Rock – The World’s Most Complete Smartest Lifestyle Smartwatch” .. please tell me it's a joke, that people actually gave him 37K!!

nsxwolf 13y ago

Very difficult to parse that headline.

jxf 13y ago

Summary of events if you don't want to read the entire comment thread just to discover what the heck the title of this post is talking about: 1. Kickstarter campaign for a new high-tech smart-watch launches. The creator, "Vak", responds to a few questions on the watch about specs and hardware in a noncommital, generic way that doesn't reveal a lot of details. 2. Skepticism increases when one customer claims that the watch is apparently identical to a Z3, a watch with similar specs, which they already own. They provide pictures and proof that indicate that the Vak may literally be using the Z3 itself in all the photos and just switching out the wristbands. [0] 3. A minor firestorm erupts in the comments; people accuse Vak of scamming them. [1] 4. Vak asks for time to construct a Kickstarter update, saying that the deluge of comments makes it impossible to respond individually. 5. A few days later, Vak responds to the points raised in the original accusation. [2] 6. ... and keeps responding with the same message, dozens of times. He (or someone using his account) repeatedly posts the same message, over and over and over, to the Kickstarter thread, in response to any skeptical questions. 7. Vak says "it wasn't me!" [3] Pretty much no one believes him. 8. Article gets posted to HN. [0] http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/253126792/rocktm-first-qi-wifi-lifestyle-smartwatch-wireless/comments?cursor=5344542#comment-5344541 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/253126792/rocktm-first-q... [1] http://i.imgur.com/8IyxKTC.png http://i.imgur.com/8IyxKTC.png [2] http://i.imgur.com/Fa2101J.png http://i.imgur.com/Fa2101J.png [3] http://i.imgur.com/Sy7BfL9.png http://i.imgur.com/Sy7BfL9.png

semenko 13y ago
The PCB they show (https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/935/465/b197830112a246380f07a938072e3883_large.JPG?1379556465 https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/935/465/b197830112a2...) … has the model number (S2122B) of the SmartQ Z3 watch, too. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2501598 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2501598
Vak-fraud 13y ago
LOL this guy is a fraud all around let's start with his linkedin profile: You know someone is full of shit when their linkedin profile looks like this... So he jumped from R&D Engineer | Marketing Dept SMC Networks TO: Founder/CEO MedMania Inc CEO/Founder Campusbug.com (lol at this site) Principal Partner WebNative Co-Founder Pageable.com ( lol co-founded a site that isn't even up) Chief Product Zen Officer Pivot HQ ( look he is the CPO of this lovely company http://pivothq.webs.com/ http://pivothq.webs.com/) General Partner/Co-Founder Bullear Partners (googled this and there isn't even a firm by this name) Cofounder/Principal Managing Director Techzulu.com (legit news site for socal but don't see his name anywhere on the website as founder?) Principal Managing Director Crushspot.com (is this his attempt to find a girlfriend) Mentor and Advisor FastStart.studio(I don't see him on this site anywhere as mentor?) Founder Rockfield Labs (who the fuck lists themselves as a founder of a meetup group? you organized a meetup group that has had 4 meetups in the last 2 years and you are some sort of founder?) Startup Fanboy/Founder Duocampus (This looks like a damn furniture store... co-work space? really? only thing correct in this whole resume is "startup fanboy" looks like he tries to make fake companies or ride the coat tails of real entrepreneurs) Head of Technology Concert BC (sorry but who ever is getting consultating from this company is getting ripped off if this guy can't even answer simple questions about specs on a product he supposedly made. http://www.concertbc.com/portfolio/vak-sambath-head-technology http://www.concertbc.com/portfolio/vak-sambath-head-technolo...) CTO/CPO Deka (lol this guy is a joke look for him at 1:15 in the video... so he was the CTO/CPO of a failed indiegogo campaign) President Rock™ Smartwatch (let's see how this train wreck ends) What an impressive resume huh? more like what a load of shit. Googled him further: Supposedly he has a 500,000 fund? "- Money. That’s right—I have partnered with a $500K fund, through Anonymous Angels, that is focused on mobile apps & games. The sole requirement is that you have been a current member of BLANKSPACES for a month. Thanks Vak Sambath!" reference: http://www.blankspaces.com/blog/02/21/blankspaces-returns-to-santa-monica/ http://www.blankspaces.com/blog/02/21/blankspaces-returns-to... LMAO at this joke http://www.vaksambath.com/ http://www.vaksambath.com/ ... save yourself time and scroll to the bottom and read that load of shit... with someone with many failed companies he tries to "crush others dreams" can we ban this guy from anything Tech or just in life general This guy is pathetic "When asked what’s next for the app, Vak mentioned that they are developing RodeDog to work with various mobile providers. “We are building out the app for Google’s Android and Windows mobile and we hope to get the app in iTunes in spite of Apple’s restrictions.”" LOOK AT 0:31 on this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5Lt5U_pVCA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5Lt5U_pVCA He is the spokes person for ClipRoadie and then all of the sudden he is on the other team that conveniently won? Wait so did he win or did the 12 year old girl win... or are they the same person... maybe he is the 12 year old girl? LOL maybe we should just give him a call... it only cost $1/min https://clarity.fm/vaksambath https://clarity.fm/vaksambath or we could socialcam him https://socialcam.com/u/Fk6y66Ob https://socialcam.com/u/Fk6y66Ob I wonder what 103 domain names he owes lmao http://reversewhois.domaintools.com/vak-sambath http://reversewhois.domaintools.com/vak-sambath I should be a private investigator but I couldn't help but find more about this guy after reading this post. Can someone from Orange County please go pay him a visit at one of his many offices or his cowork space. Go have a meal with him lmao... this is quoted from his website vaksambath.com "Let Me Crush Your Dreams Or Not...over a meal. Please :) If you're why is any one of these, then let's do lunch. I love free meals. Not sure what's better though: eating the actual meal or the idea? Hehe. Jk. I'll be gentle."

aye 13y ago

This guy, uses, a lot of commas, when he speaks. He's kind of, got, a Christopher Walken, thing, going on.

PLenz 13y ago
Thanks-now, I'm reading, everything-aaaahhhh,this way
schenecstasy 13y ago
If we don't, get, to fifty thouSAND, in about, thirty days, then, the whole, y'know, project goes, unfunded.

schenecstasy 13y ago

Small Business Evangelist | Serial Technologist | E-Commerce Platform Idealogist GROAN

Mikeb85 13y ago

To be fair, the maker of the Z3 watch does brand themselves as an OEM... Too bad the Kickstarter guy wasn't just a little more upfront about what clearly seems to be a rebranded watch...

JVIDEL 13y ago
They never are, none of those projects for Android stick computers said it was the same lowend generic stuff the Chinese sell for forty bucks.

CervezaPorFavor 13y ago

The intro video already has a few red flags to show that he doesn't know what he's talking about (or he's not being honest): - He considers the 240x240 display an HD display - He claims the watch has 4GB of RAM His Kickstarter page is so full of BS materials that anyone with just a little bit of common sense and technical knowledge about smartphones should be able to tell this is not a legitimate project.

rickinhk 13y ago

This guy is now using the same excuse that he used on day 1 (the team are on holiday so I can't make specific replies). It's just a joke. 4GB of ROM and 4GB of RAM? The iPhone 5S has 1GB of RAM, what the hell would you need with the rest? At least he's removed some of his claims (it is waterproof, oops now it's not; the screen is 1080p - with a 250 x 250 screen? WTF?). His last update focuses on the money going to software development (basically, the watch is the cheap Chinese Z3 watch that we bought in bulk from alibaba.com, but the apps are different). He is just full of shit and avoids all the questions that he knows the answers to (the ones that he doesn't want to reveal publicly). From the 'my account was hacked' spamming to the bullshit on his own website (want to make a quick buck? I'll show you how) his is a scam, 100%.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

mumbo-jumbo 13y ago

The project has finally been suspended by Kickstarter. Now this guy is removing all his pictures and bio links from the project page!