7 ms·

Isn't mobile and the web the decider these days? Article is from 2010, but consider if you want to develop 3D on any of these platforms: iOS - OpenGL ES Andro

Isn't mobile and the web the decider these days? Article is from 2010, but consider if you want to develop 3D on any of these platforms: iOS - OpenGL ES Android - OpenGL ES Mac - OpenGL Linux - OpenGL HTML5 - WebGL (based on OpenGL ES) - even in IE! Emerging platforms like Tizen, Firefox OS - OpenGL ES/WebGL DirectX is just for Windows and Windows Phone. Isn't it getting to the point where the bother of having to write a DirectX port might cause developers to skip the Windows platforms, or stick to OpenGL on Windows desktop? Windows isn't as overwhelmingly important as it used to be, and couldn't the fact that DirectX is different start to work against MS? Imagine if Blackberry came out with their own custom 3D API - wouldn't that only serve to hurt them?

pjmlp 13y ago
Game consoles - proprietary 3D APIs OpenGL != OpenGL ES != WebGL, yes they are all based on the same concepts, but require separate code paths and different shader versions.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- CodeWithCoffee 13y ago
  > OpenGL != OpenGL ES != WebGL Whilst technically true, WebGL is designed to have API compatibility with OpenGL ES (2), which in turn is based off of OpenGL (2). OpenGL ES 3 and WebGL 2 are beginning to emerge and are based off of OpenGL 3. In my experience shaders that work with WebGL will also work with OpenGL ES 2 and OpenGL 2.1. Equivalent versions tend to use the same concepts. On the other hand, code written for desktop (v3+) won't work on mobile, because the desktop version is one version ahead of mobile (and I imagind that it will be for several more versions).
- rpedela 13y ago
  On Linux (I assume Mac too but haven't tried), you can force yourself to OpenGL ES. In fact, I would recommend it. The nice thing about OpenGL ES is that there is only one main way to do things so it is a lot harder to use something slow like glBegin().
- laumars 13y ago
  > Game consoles - proprietary 3D APIs Back in the day that was true, but I don't think that's the case these days. Xbox is obviously DirectX. Wii was OpenGL, and I think Sony used OpenGL as well.
  - rblstr 13y ago
    Sony have some shitty support for OpenGL. Any developer worth his salt used Sony's API. Wii had its own API too, though closer to OpenGL, still wasn't OpenGL. I'm a huge fan of OpenGL, but evangelists have been spreading misinformation about OpenGL just as much as they accuse DirectX as.
    - pjmlp 13y ago
      I really don't get how OpenGL support for consoles became such a urban legend. Anyone that cares about graphics programming on game consoles knows how broken or non existent such support is.
      - jcromartie 13y ago
        It's because console development is a fairly secretive process. The SDKs are all kept under a fairly tight lid, and unless you either work with it yourself or personally know someone who is willing to spill the beans, you cannot get a good idea of the process.
        pjmlp 13y ago
        True, but that is no reason to start spreading the falsehood that OpenGL is everywhere used on consoles, as many FOSS advocates do. Specially when enough information is actually publicly available for anyone that cares about game development, in online forums, games magazines, conferences and game courses.
        laumars 13y ago
        To be fair, the reason I though the Wii supported OpenGL was because that's what I thought I read from Nintendo when I was seriously considering writing some homebrew games for my Wii. As to why and where I gained this misinformation I don't know. But somewhere along the line I've gotten my wires crossed.
- jcromartie 13y ago
  You can more-or-less program to the OpenGL ES API under full desktop OpenGL, since ES is a subset of the full API.
moep 13y ago
My hope is that the SteamOS/Steam Machines movement will finally tip the scales in favor of OpenGL. A "killer app" that is fully OpenGL optimised with a delayed or worse performing DirectX port would seal the deal. If only Valve had more franchis3s...
- chadwickthebold 13y ago
  I'd be willing to bet serious money that if Valve released HL Ep.3 with the Steam Box next holiday season, they could upgrade their mattress stuffing from $20s to $100s. Even if they released Windows and Linux versions simultaneously, they would absolutely kill it.
rpedela 13y ago
Isn't PS4 OpenGL as well?
- pjmlp 13y ago
  No. The PS3 had OpenGL ES 1.0 with Cg as shading language, but almost any developer worth his/her salt was using LibGCM. With PhyreEngine being used as main prototype engine. Lots of nice technical documents available at http://develop.scee.net/publications http://develop.scee.net/publications PS4 API is called GNM, http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-how-the-crew-was-ported-to-playstation-4 http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-how-the-cre...
EpicEng 13y ago
Yeah, if all you care about is candy crush and the random pay to win adventure game. No one is playing "real" games on tablets or phones, nor will they be anytime in the foreseeable future.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  It might sound like a snide way to put it, but there is a clear dividing line; OpenGL dominates casual platforms. DirectX dominates "traditional gaming" platforms.
  - peterashford 13y ago
    So the PS2/3/4 are "casual" and not "traditional gaming" platforms?
    - EpicEng 13y ago
      I believe the parent is concerned with PC games, not Console. It's not like most console producers are concerned with cross platform anyway (at least, not until perhaps now, we'll see).
    - Tuna-Fish 13y ago
      None of then really support OpenGL though. While they had OGL implementations, all of them basically require you to write against a low-level proprietary api to be competitive with other games on the platform.
- MBCook 13y ago
  > No one is playing "real" games on tablets or phones, nor will they be anytime in the foreseeable future. Could you explain that? I've played some pretty great games on my iPhone/iPad over the last few years. There certainly are games that could stand up to the average PC release (remember BattleField 7 and Call of Duty 18 are not average). Many are at least easily comparable to games of the 16 bit era. A sample from my purchased apps list: Battleheart, Beat Sneak Bandit, Brainsss, Device 6, Fieldrunners, Edge, Game Dev Story, Girls Like Robots, One Tap Hero, Punch Quest, The Room, Slayin, Spider, Spy Mouse, Star Command, Supermagical, Tiny Heroes, Tiny Thief, Waking Marks, and Zenbound. This doesn't include 'tiny' games, ports, digital version of boardgames, etc.

pjmlp 13y ago

Game consoles - proprietary 3D APIs OpenGL != OpenGL ES != WebGL, yes they are all based on the same concepts, but require separate code paths and different shader versions.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
CodeWithCoffee 13y ago
> OpenGL != OpenGL ES != WebGL Whilst technically true, WebGL is designed to have API compatibility with OpenGL ES (2), which in turn is based off of OpenGL (2). OpenGL ES 3 and WebGL 2 are beginning to emerge and are based off of OpenGL 3. In my experience shaders that work with WebGL will also work with OpenGL ES 2 and OpenGL 2.1. Equivalent versions tend to use the same concepts. On the other hand, code written for desktop (v3+) won't work on mobile, because the desktop version is one version ahead of mobile (and I imagind that it will be for several more versions).
rpedela 13y ago
On Linux (I assume Mac too but haven't tried), you can force yourself to OpenGL ES. In fact, I would recommend it. The nice thing about OpenGL ES is that there is only one main way to do things so it is a lot harder to use something slow like glBegin().
laumars 13y ago
> Game consoles - proprietary 3D APIs Back in the day that was true, but I don't think that's the case these days. Xbox is obviously DirectX. Wii was OpenGL, and I think Sony used OpenGL as well.
- rblstr 13y ago
  Sony have some shitty support for OpenGL. Any developer worth his salt used Sony's API. Wii had its own API too, though closer to OpenGL, still wasn't OpenGL. I'm a huge fan of OpenGL, but evangelists have been spreading misinformation about OpenGL just as much as they accuse DirectX as.
  - pjmlp 13y ago
    I really don't get how OpenGL support for consoles became such a urban legend. Anyone that cares about graphics programming on game consoles knows how broken or non existent such support is.
    - jcromartie 13y ago
      It's because console development is a fairly secretive process. The SDKs are all kept under a fairly tight lid, and unless you either work with it yourself or personally know someone who is willing to spill the beans, you cannot get a good idea of the process.
      - pjmlp 13y ago
        True, but that is no reason to start spreading the falsehood that OpenGL is everywhere used on consoles, as many FOSS advocates do. Specially when enough information is actually publicly available for anyone that cares about game development, in online forums, games magazines, conferences and game courses.
        laumars 13y ago
        To be fair, the reason I though the Wii supported OpenGL was because that's what I thought I read from Nintendo when I was seriously considering writing some homebrew games for my Wii. As to why and where I gained this misinformation I don't know. But somewhere along the line I've gotten my wires crossed.
jcromartie 13y ago
You can more-or-less program to the OpenGL ES API under full desktop OpenGL, since ES is a subset of the full API.

moep 13y ago

My hope is that the SteamOS/Steam Machines movement will finally tip the scales in favor of OpenGL. A "killer app" that is fully OpenGL optimised with a delayed or worse performing DirectX port would seal the deal. If only Valve had more franchis3s...

chadwickthebold 13y ago
I'd be willing to bet serious money that if Valve released HL Ep.3 with the Steam Box next holiday season, they could upgrade their mattress stuffing from $20s to $100s. Even if they released Windows and Linux versions simultaneously, they would absolutely kill it.

rpedela 13y ago

Isn't PS4 OpenGL as well?

pjmlp 13y ago
No. The PS3 had OpenGL ES 1.0 with Cg as shading language, but almost any developer worth his/her salt was using LibGCM. With PhyreEngine being used as main prototype engine. Lots of nice technical documents available at http://develop.scee.net/publications http://develop.scee.net/publications PS4 API is called GNM, http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-how-the-crew-was-ported-to-playstation-4 http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-how-the-cre...

EpicEng 13y ago

Yeah, if all you care about is candy crush and the random pay to win adventure game. No one is playing "real" games on tablets or phones, nor will they be anytime in the foreseeable future.

sliverstorm 13y ago
It might sound like a snide way to put it, but there is a clear dividing line; OpenGL dominates casual platforms. DirectX dominates "traditional gaming" platforms.
- peterashford 13y ago
  So the PS2/3/4 are "casual" and not "traditional gaming" platforms?
  - EpicEng 13y ago
    I believe the parent is concerned with PC games, not Console. It's not like most console producers are concerned with cross platform anyway (at least, not until perhaps now, we'll see).
  - Tuna-Fish 13y ago
    None of then really support OpenGL though. While they had OGL implementations, all of them basically require you to write against a low-level proprietary api to be competitive with other games on the platform.
MBCook 13y ago
> No one is playing "real" games on tablets or phones, nor will they be anytime in the foreseeable future. Could you explain that? I've played some pretty great games on my iPhone/iPad over the last few years. There certainly are games that could stand up to the average PC release (remember BattleField 7 and Call of Duty 18 are not average). Many are at least easily comparable to games of the 16 bit era. A sample from my purchased apps list: Battleheart, Beat Sneak Bandit, Brainsss, Device 6, Fieldrunners, Edge, Game Dev Story, Girls Like Robots, One Tap Hero, Punch Quest, The Room, Slayin, Spider, Spy Mouse, Star Command, Supermagical, Tiny Heroes, Tiny Thief, Waking Marks, and Zenbound. This doesn't include 'tiny' games, ports, digital version of boardgames, etc.