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Right, and how well do subtyping and implicits get along? This is the problem, everything and the kitchen sink is tossed into Scala without any consideration f

Right, and how well do subtyping and implicits get along? This is the problem, everything and the kitchen sink is tossed into Scala without any consideration for how well things work together because they've let it be a PLT grad students playground. http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/1pjjy5/odersky_the_trouble_with_types_strange_loop_2013/cd3bgcu http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/1pjjy5/odersky_the_... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS1lpKBMkgg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS1lpKBMkgg The Scala community didn't lose one its best core developers for nothing. I mention Clojure and Haskell in the same breath because FP and immutability are what I care about and Scala fails to be a nice functional language.

seanmcdirmid 13y ago
No idea who your demigod is, but Martin is probably the best programmer I've worked with. How subtyping is combined with type inference in Scala is quite workable, not perfect, but not a train wreck either. Scala isn't really the best functional language, but it might be the best OO language out there, especially with traits, no other statically typed language has done mixins as well.
- coolsunglasses 13y ago
  Then please stop selling Scala as being about type-safety or FP, because it makes them look bad. Edit: Also the demigod is paulp who worked on the Scala compiler team for five years. Hard to miss if you watch Scala dev at all.
  - asdf1234 13y ago
    That demigod also has a very long list of complaints about Haskell and Clojure. He doesn't think either of them are worth using either.
    - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
      Many PL enthusiasts aren't satisfied with any language (me included); there is plenty of critique to go around. And why should we be satisfied?
  - frowaway001 13y ago
    Sean did a PhD at the EPFL while working on Scala. I think he is allowed to have an opinion on that.
    - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
      I did a post doc, worked on the IDE for a couple of years, and haven't been following Scala that closely for 5 years or so.
      - frowaway001 13y ago
        Thanks for the correction! 5 years is a long time in terms of Scala, maybe the Scala community has the chance to welcome you back some time in the future and show you how much stuff has been improved since back then? :-)
frowaway001 13y ago
> This is the problem, everything and the kitchen sink is tossed into Scala without any consideration for how well things work together because they've let it be a PLT grad students playground. I'd love to see a concrete example for that!

seanmcdirmid 13y ago

No idea who your demigod is, but Martin is probably the best programmer I've worked with. How subtyping is combined with type inference in Scala is quite workable, not perfect, but not a train wreck either. Scala isn't really the best functional language, but it might be the best OO language out there, especially with traits, no other statically typed language has done mixins as well.

coolsunglasses 13y ago
Then please stop selling Scala as being about type-safety or FP, because it makes them look bad. Edit: Also the demigod is paulp who worked on the Scala compiler team for five years. Hard to miss if you watch Scala dev at all.
- asdf1234 13y ago
  That demigod also has a very long list of complaints about Haskell and Clojure. He doesn't think either of them are worth using either.
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    Many PL enthusiasts aren't satisfied with any language (me included); there is plenty of critique to go around. And why should we be satisfied?
- frowaway001 13y ago
  Sean did a PhD at the EPFL while working on Scala. I think he is allowed to have an opinion on that.
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    I did a post doc, worked on the IDE for a couple of years, and haven't been following Scala that closely for 5 years or so.
    - frowaway001 13y ago
      Thanks for the correction! 5 years is a long time in terms of Scala, maybe the Scala community has the chance to welcome you back some time in the future and show you how much stuff has been improved since back then? :-)

frowaway001 13y ago

> This is the problem, everything and the kitchen sink is tossed into Scala without any consideration for how well things work together because they've let it be a PLT grad students playground. I'd love to see a concrete example for that!