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Salesforce $1 Million Hackathon Update - Two Winners

109 points by jhchen 13y ago

chrisbennet 13y ago
This doesn't square with several team's assertions that, according to their analytics, their videos had never been viewed by the judges. I wish they (saleforce) had addressed this issue in their response.
- zaguios 13y ago
  They do address it, they lie by asserting that every apps was viewed twice when it's clear that was not the case unless there are dozens of developers lying about something random which I'm pretty sure isn't the case.
  - gsibble 13y ago
    More likely the judges were lazy and lying to Salesforce.
  - corresation 13y ago
    What comprised a submission? Is it possible that an app was legitimately reviewed and dismissed before the reviewer made it to the video? Put another way, I look at a lot of resumes that have personal links/CVs on them. 90% of the time I've decided no before I get to them, making their inclusion irrelevant. Could this not have happened?
  - TrainedMonkey 13y ago
    Or salesforce employes that were pressed into evaluating this, just took an easy way out and viewed apps without watching videos.
  - gwf 13y ago
    @zaguis, can you point me to anyone else besides @colabi that is claiming that their video has not been viewed? I genuinely want to investigate this, but after searching for a week I can't find anything concrete. Since you are confidentially asserting that you believe that salesforce employees are lying, it would help everyone if you could identify just a couple of the dozens of developers that you reference. If you do so, I will investigate their specific situation directly.
- jcampbell1 13y ago
  I thought the assertion was their apps were never run. Not that the videos were never watched.
  - johnny99 13y ago
    Right--that's the assertion made is this well-done and damning post: https://medium.com/hackers-and-hacking/b839268fb82d https://medium.com/hackers-and-hacking/b839268fb82d
    - huhtenberg 13y ago
      > I quickly checked Testflight and our app data to see if it had been run. So, the assumption is that judges' computers don't block phone-home and other tracking/analytics services? That'd be a very poor and dangerous assumption to make.
      - Kudos 13y ago
        Testflight is an Android/iOS app analytics tool.
      - xauronx 13y ago
        Our app created a record in salesforce the first time it's run on any device. No new records. They confirm in their press release that the final 5 were chosen on video/description alone. "We instructed both our first and second round judges to evaluate the submissions using the apps’ description, screen shots and the demo video using the same four criteria"
- gwf 13y ago
  Can you point me in a direction where I can find contestants that are claiming this? I work at Salesforce and I would like to investigate this further. I already commented on an earlier thread (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6784782 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6784782), and so far I can find only one person that is claiming that their video was not shown (@colabi). While every complaint deserves to be investigated, I think colabi's has been heard multiple times already and I'd like to see if there is some other cause for concern.
- zaroth 13y ago
  I remember reading (some time ago, and I can't find the article now) that YouTube view counters are designed to be probabilistic and "good enough" to give a general idea of the number of views. I don't believe YouTube is providing any particular guarantee on the accuracy of their view counters. Lock-step global counters, even when you play games like sharding and summing to reduce contention, can still introduce latency and SPOF. But then again, I would have expected any probabilistic counter to only kick in after a certain popularity threshold. I would hesitate to make any claim that something definitely was not viewed based on anything less than the full HTTP access logs of a self-hosted video.
  - post_break 13y ago
    3 seconds of video is considered a view to YouTube. I remember seeing it when I got my Partner contract.
  - girvo 13y ago
    re. View counter becoming probabilistic after a certain amount of popularity: isn't that the "301+ views" thing?
  - tehwebguy 13y ago
    Until 301 views they are live and accurate to the view
minimaxir 13y ago
The problem with Upshot's exemption of "they built the mobile app during the Hackathon so it's fair" is that it sets a bad precedent for all other Hackathons. Why shouldn't teams do what Upshot did and develop the cool tech beforehand and polish it during the Hackathon, especially when winning offers such prizes/publicity?
- corresation 13y ago
  Why shouldn't teams do what Upshot did and develop the cool tech beforehand and polish it during the Hackathon They should: If you know what you're building, and the prize is enough motivation, of course you should do everything you possibly can in advance, and any rules that tried to prohibit that would essentially be crippling only the naively honest. Even if there were keystroke and screen loggers and you had to "show your work", a prepared team would have gone through the process multiple times, completely refining their work to the point of rote re-implementation of version 10 of a proven out implementation. This may sound cynical, but it is truthful. Which is exactly why most such competitions simply announce the goal and an end date in the future, and people grind as they see fit.
  - utopkara 13y ago
    Their rules were just too complex yet weak and ambiguous. If they want to level the field, a simple fix would be: make all previously written code available to others at least one week prior to the Hackathlon, everything else is kosher.
  - rhizome 13y ago
    a prepared team would have gone through the process multiple times, completely refining their work to the point of rote re-implementation of version 10 of a proven out implementation. What is this referring to? Has this ever actually occurred?
    - corresation 13y ago
      It's referring to human nature. If you tell people there is a million dollar prize at stake (and to add to the financial stakes, charge hundreds per contestant), and details of the problem they will be solving, 100% of your contestants will try to solve as much of the problem as they can in advance (while, most likely, declaring it a crime that anyone else did so). Anyone who claims otherwise is the sort of person you should protect your wallet around. It is impossible to guard against this.
ivan_ah 13y ago
While the Upshot mobile app used some pre-existing code, this did not violate the rules. Use of pre-existing code was allowable as long as the code didn’t comprise the majority of the app and didn’t violate any third party’s rights. IMHO, the whole idea of a hackathon is to see what teams can come up with on the spot. Any pre-existing code you bring is an unfair advantage. But if the rules say pre-coding is OK, then it is OK ;) disclaimer: I am not familiar with the specifics in this situation, just commenting on hackathons in general.
- mvkel 13y ago
  Technically what you're saying is you can't use Rails, you'd have to use Ruby, because Rails is pre-existing code built on top of Ruby. That also throws out jQuery and any of its libraries. The beauty of hackathons is they force you to think about the deliverable and attempt to mitigate reinventing the wheel by using as many plugins as possible to deliver your concept.
  - untog 13y ago
    Pretty obvious condition would be that it's pre-existing code you wrote. I'm sure that's what the OP intended.
    - lotyrin 13y ago
      So, someone who is a prolific FOSS contributor is screwed?
    - mbesto 13y ago
      Where do you draw the line? Let's say I'm a core developer on Rails, am I not allowed to use Rails then? What happens if I contributed 1 line of code to Rails, does that negate it then?
      - makomk 13y ago
        The obvious place to draw the line is the point where the code you wrote isn't equally available to you and all the other competitors.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- haukilup 13y ago
  What's the purpose of your reply, exactly? To me, it seems perfectly reasonable to criticize and evaluate a potentially unfair ruling in a large, notable competition. Now that Salesforce has given their response, it should be evaluated just like any other company statement, to see if it is accurate and meets the community standards of what's "fair". Yes, fairness is partially subjective, which is why people want to discuss it here.
- at-fates-hands 13y ago
  You must have forgotten the grand prize was for $1 million. Not exactly chump change. I'm sure if you felt slighted after entering, you'd be right there complaining about the rules as well. For $1 million I know I would raise my concerns.
Sniperfish 13y ago
I was contemplating some snide response that, regardless of how many apps are considered 'winners', Salesforce comes off as the loser due to bad publicity in the development community. Then I remembered they'd just been given source code and rights to a ton of pretty nifty apps for a bargain price. Guess there are Three Winners.
- cedsav 13y ago
  FYI, Salesforce claimed no right on submitted code. http://events.developerforce.com/dreamforce/hackathon/faq http://events.developerforce.com/dreamforce/hackathon/faq
  - darkstar999 13y ago
    Yeah but they still get the _idea_ for free. Code is cheap.
    - rhizome 13y ago
      Even when execution is everything?
      - darkstar999 13y ago
        Execution isn't always everything, especially with B2B. Sometimes it's all about finding a market niche and knowing the right people.
TrainedMonkey 13y ago
1. * Collect massive data set. 2. Build an API. 3. Make mobile application that 'uses' API to do something cool. 4. Judges think API/Data set are inherent properties of your app. 4. Profit. * Optional. You could just make an API that does something cool way before hackathon. (That is my understanding of what happened with that event and it is most likely inaccurate.)
us0r 13y ago
Looking forward to more salesfarce hackathons.
Finbarr 13y ago
I doubt they'll ever run another hackathon like this again. What a farce.
- jbrooksuk 13y ago
  Or they'll hide their motives better.
dangerboysteve 13y ago
Anyone developing Salesforce apps will not raise a stink as it will hurt their relationship with that company. So anyone writing Kudos about Salesforce for this extra $1M prize should keep quiet as it's disingenuous. It's been mentioned many times over that many of the teams that competed could tell via analytics that their apps were not looked at. This statement alone should invalidate the entire contest and force new judging. So how does this constitute a full review and audit. The reality is that SF royally fucked up on many fronts and lost developer cred in the community. As if they cared in the first place. If they attempt this next year, they need to appoint an outside 3rd party to oversee the contest and git rid of their own employees from the process.
- ChrisBland 13y ago
  This statement should concern Salesforce more than any hackathon results: 'Anyone developing Salesforce apps will not raise a stink as it will hurt their relationship with that company' I've worked with Salesforce for 4+ years now (as customer and partner), and sadly I agree with you. This should be the message that someone at salesforce reads. Want to be invited to their pilots? Want to have access to their PMs? You had better not say anything bad, I even had my AE pull me aside when I was out there for an EBC to tell me to not bring up their recent service outage during the meeting. If you don't have anything nice to say about salesforce, they don't want to hear your voice.
  - monkeyspaw 13y ago
    Have you deployed any apps in their Appxchange? I'd love the chance to talk with someone who has done that to hear their POV. Was at Dreamforce last week and it felt like one giant sales-pitch-cum-Anthony-Robbins event. Let me know if you have a few minutes to chat, and how best to contact you. My email is in my profile. Thanks!
    - louhong 13y ago
      I'm happy to answer any questions you might have. Went through the process last year.
reustle 13y ago
We're going to solve the problem of giving our ex-employee's team $1m by giving the runner up, a company we own a portion of, $1m as well.
- sswaner 13y ago
  Yes, but in a way they are likely damaging the company they own a portion of. They may end up losing the talent that won the award. That company doesn't benefit much as a result, and Salesforce even less.
  - TrainedMonkey 13y ago
    Apps were built using salesforce platform. So the chance that salesforce would come out net negative out of this is not as high as you think.
  - ritchiea 13y ago
    Possibly but that does nothing to assuage the concern that entries were only seriously considered if you had an inside connect at Salesforce, which is what it looks like when the winners have close ties to the contest holders and many entrants complain that their analytics show their app was never used.
- Bawaji 13y ago
  Ya...just like the cops who are tasked with investigating themselves and always come up with a reason why it was okay to fatally shoot a 15 year old with a toy gun...ya...
  - puredemo 13y ago
    The toy gun had been modified to look just like a real gun, that's actually a lot more understandable than the myriad issues with this Hackathon.
onedev 13y ago
> While the Upshot mobile app used some pre-existing code, this did not violate the rules. Use of pre-existing code was allowable as long as the code didn’t comprise the majority of the app and didn’t violate any third party’s rights. Our internal review determined that Upshot’s mobile app was created during the hackathon and met these criteria. So what does "a majority" really mean? Can I come in with 49% of the code and still be eligible? 49% isn't technically a majority. What about 49.99%? How do you even determine the concept of "a majority"?
- recursive 13y ago
  Lines of code is a measurable number that could be used.
- dllthomas 13y ago
  A majority really means more than 50%. 49.99% isn't a majority. These are easy questions. The real issue is poor metrics on which to apply that threshold...
ChrisBland 13y ago
This was the only 'outcome' that was available to salesforce. If they took away UpShots prize money, they would have upset a lot of people who felt that prizes shouldn't be taken away after the fact, that upshot won by playing within the rules, etc. If they kept the ruling how it was, they still would upset a lot of people who felt cheated by upshot using existing code. Realistically they couldn't rejudge the entire competition, and even if they did there would be people complaining about that. They ran the hackathon poorly, they communicated poorly by posting certain things on the forums, etc, they judged it poorly, and now they just want out from under their own mess with the least damage possible Salesforce had one out, throw money at the problem and hope it fades away.
lnanek2 13y ago
Wow, much more impressive response than their first one. Especially good move addressing the private gallery complaint, that's a small detail that shows they paid attention to some of the complaints at least.
usingpond 13y ago
lmao @ Salesforce's developer marketing dude's brilliant response to all of this: "Nuh-uh, it was fair and square, those guys are all totally lying."
phlobot 13y ago
How rich are the people at saleforce getting that they consider financial investment "immaterial". I like that.
leeoniya 13y ago
"It also found that we weren’t clear enough with the final round judges about the use of pre-existing code" because you were expecting the pre-determined winner to be using it?
mrjasonroy 13y ago
Just to add to the incestuous nature - the runner up, healthcare.love, was created by Taptera employees. Taptera's main investor is Salesforce.
kungfoo 13y ago
I wonder what Upshot data code submission looked like? If they submitted just the mobile app, then all that Salesforce got out of it was a Webview + Mic integration, but if Salesforce actually got the NLP code (doubt it)...paying $1mil would have been worth all of this nonsense. The right thing to do would be to ask Upshot to submit ALL their code and add it to Salesforce.com. I think most of the other participants would consider that fair justice.

109 points by jhchen 13y ago

This doesn't square with several team's assertions that, according to their analytics, their videos had never been viewed by the judges. I wish they (saleforce) had addressed this issue in their response.

zaguios 13y ago
They do address it, they lie by asserting that every apps was viewed twice when it's clear that was not the case unless there are dozens of developers lying about something random which I'm pretty sure isn't the case.
- gsibble 13y ago
  More likely the judges were lazy and lying to Salesforce.
- corresation 13y ago
  What comprised a submission? Is it possible that an app was legitimately reviewed and dismissed before the reviewer made it to the video? Put another way, I look at a lot of resumes that have personal links/CVs on them. 90% of the time I've decided no before I get to them, making their inclusion irrelevant. Could this not have happened?
- TrainedMonkey 13y ago
  Or salesforce employes that were pressed into evaluating this, just took an easy way out and viewed apps without watching videos.
- gwf 13y ago
  @zaguis, can you point me to anyone else besides @colabi that is claiming that their video has not been viewed? I genuinely want to investigate this, but after searching for a week I can't find anything concrete. Since you are confidentially asserting that you believe that salesforce employees are lying, it would help everyone if you could identify just a couple of the dozens of developers that you reference. If you do so, I will investigate their specific situation directly.
jcampbell1 13y ago
I thought the assertion was their apps were never run. Not that the videos were never watched.
- johnny99 13y ago
  Right--that's the assertion made is this well-done and damning post: https://medium.com/hackers-and-hacking/b839268fb82d https://medium.com/hackers-and-hacking/b839268fb82d
  - huhtenberg 13y ago
    > I quickly checked Testflight and our app data to see if it had been run. So, the assumption is that judges' computers don't block phone-home and other tracking/analytics services? That'd be a very poor and dangerous assumption to make.
    - Kudos 13y ago
      Testflight is an Android/iOS app analytics tool.
    - xauronx 13y ago
      Our app created a record in salesforce the first time it's run on any device. No new records. They confirm in their press release that the final 5 were chosen on video/description alone. "We instructed both our first and second round judges to evaluate the submissions using the apps’ description, screen shots and the demo video using the same four criteria"
gwf 13y ago
Can you point me in a direction where I can find contestants that are claiming this? I work at Salesforce and I would like to investigate this further. I already commented on an earlier thread (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6784782 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6784782), and so far I can find only one person that is claiming that their video was not shown (@colabi). While every complaint deserves to be investigated, I think colabi's has been heard multiple times already and I'd like to see if there is some other cause for concern.
zaroth 13y ago
I remember reading (some time ago, and I can't find the article now) that YouTube view counters are designed to be probabilistic and "good enough" to give a general idea of the number of views. I don't believe YouTube is providing any particular guarantee on the accuracy of their view counters. Lock-step global counters, even when you play games like sharding and summing to reduce contention, can still introduce latency and SPOF. But then again, I would have expected any probabilistic counter to only kick in after a certain popularity threshold. I would hesitate to make any claim that something definitely was not viewed based on anything less than the full HTTP access logs of a self-hosted video.
- post_break 13y ago
  3 seconds of video is considered a view to YouTube. I remember seeing it when I got my Partner contract.
- girvo 13y ago
  re. View counter becoming probabilistic after a certain amount of popularity: isn't that the "301+ views" thing?
- tehwebguy 13y ago
  Until 301 views they are live and accurate to the view

minimaxir 13y ago

The problem with Upshot's exemption of "they built the mobile app during the Hackathon so it's fair" is that it sets a bad precedent for all other Hackathons. Why shouldn't teams do what Upshot did and develop the cool tech beforehand and polish it during the Hackathon, especially when winning offers such prizes/publicity?

corresation 13y ago
Why shouldn't teams do what Upshot did and develop the cool tech beforehand and polish it during the Hackathon They should: If you know what you're building, and the prize is enough motivation, of course you should do everything you possibly can in advance, and any rules that tried to prohibit that would essentially be crippling only the naively honest. Even if there were keystroke and screen loggers and you had to "show your work", a prepared team would have gone through the process multiple times, completely refining their work to the point of rote re-implementation of version 10 of a proven out implementation. This may sound cynical, but it is truthful. Which is exactly why most such competitions simply announce the goal and an end date in the future, and people grind as they see fit.
- utopkara 13y ago
  Their rules were just too complex yet weak and ambiguous. If they want to level the field, a simple fix would be: make all previously written code available to others at least one week prior to the Hackathlon, everything else is kosher.
- rhizome 13y ago
  a prepared team would have gone through the process multiple times, completely refining their work to the point of rote re-implementation of version 10 of a proven out implementation. What is this referring to? Has this ever actually occurred?
  - corresation 13y ago
    It's referring to human nature. If you tell people there is a million dollar prize at stake (and to add to the financial stakes, charge hundreds per contestant), and details of the problem they will be solving, 100% of your contestants will try to solve as much of the problem as they can in advance (while, most likely, declaring it a crime that anyone else did so). Anyone who claims otherwise is the sort of person you should protect your wallet around. It is impossible to guard against this.

ivan_ah 13y ago

While the Upshot mobile app used some pre-existing code, this did not violate the rules. Use of pre-existing code was allowable as long as the code didn’t comprise the majority of the app and didn’t violate any third party’s rights. IMHO, the whole idea of a hackathon is to see what teams can come up with on the spot. Any pre-existing code you bring is an unfair advantage. But if the rules say pre-coding is OK, then it is OK ;) disclaimer: I am not familiar with the specifics in this situation, just commenting on hackathons in general.

mvkel 13y ago
Technically what you're saying is you can't use Rails, you'd have to use Ruby, because Rails is pre-existing code built on top of Ruby. That also throws out jQuery and any of its libraries. The beauty of hackathons is they force you to think about the deliverable and attempt to mitigate reinventing the wheel by using as many plugins as possible to deliver your concept.
- untog 13y ago
  Pretty obvious condition would be that it's pre-existing code you wrote. I'm sure that's what the OP intended.
  - lotyrin 13y ago
    So, someone who is a prolific FOSS contributor is screwed?
  - mbesto 13y ago
    Where do you draw the line? Let's say I'm a core developer on Rails, am I not allowed to use Rails then? What happens if I contributed 1 line of code to Rails, does that negate it then?
    - makomk 13y ago
      The obvious place to draw the line is the point where the code you wrote isn't equally available to you and all the other competitors.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

haukilup 13y ago
What's the purpose of your reply, exactly? To me, it seems perfectly reasonable to criticize and evaluate a potentially unfair ruling in a large, notable competition. Now that Salesforce has given their response, it should be evaluated just like any other company statement, to see if it is accurate and meets the community standards of what's "fair". Yes, fairness is partially subjective, which is why people want to discuss it here.
at-fates-hands 13y ago
You must have forgotten the grand prize was for $1 million. Not exactly chump change. I'm sure if you felt slighted after entering, you'd be right there complaining about the rules as well. For $1 million I know I would raise my concerns.

Sniperfish 13y ago

I was contemplating some snide response that, regardless of how many apps are considered 'winners', Salesforce comes off as the loser due to bad publicity in the development community. Then I remembered they'd just been given source code and rights to a ton of pretty nifty apps for a bargain price. Guess there are Three Winners.

cedsav 13y ago
FYI, Salesforce claimed no right on submitted code. http://events.developerforce.com/dreamforce/hackathon/faq http://events.developerforce.com/dreamforce/hackathon/faq
- darkstar999 13y ago
  Yeah but they still get the _idea_ for free. Code is cheap.
  - rhizome 13y ago
    Even when execution is everything?
    - darkstar999 13y ago
      Execution isn't always everything, especially with B2B. Sometimes it's all about finding a market niche and knowing the right people.

TrainedMonkey 13y ago

1. * Collect massive data set. 2. Build an API. 3. Make mobile application that 'uses' API to do something cool. 4. Judges think API/Data set are inherent properties of your app. 4. Profit. * Optional. You could just make an API that does something cool way before hackathon. (That is my understanding of what happened with that event and it is most likely inaccurate.)

us0r 13y ago

Looking forward to more salesfarce hackathons.

Finbarr 13y ago

I doubt they'll ever run another hackathon like this again. What a farce.

jbrooksuk 13y ago
Or they'll hide their motives better.

dangerboysteve 13y ago

Anyone developing Salesforce apps will not raise a stink as it will hurt their relationship with that company. So anyone writing Kudos about Salesforce for this extra $1M prize should keep quiet as it's disingenuous. It's been mentioned many times over that many of the teams that competed could tell via analytics that their apps were not looked at. This statement alone should invalidate the entire contest and force new judging. So how does this constitute a full review and audit. The reality is that SF royally fucked up on many fronts and lost developer cred in the community. As if they cared in the first place. If they attempt this next year, they need to appoint an outside 3rd party to oversee the contest and git rid of their own employees from the process.

ChrisBland 13y ago
This statement should concern Salesforce more than any hackathon results: 'Anyone developing Salesforce apps will not raise a stink as it will hurt their relationship with that company' I've worked with Salesforce for 4+ years now (as customer and partner), and sadly I agree with you. This should be the message that someone at salesforce reads. Want to be invited to their pilots? Want to have access to their PMs? You had better not say anything bad, I even had my AE pull me aside when I was out there for an EBC to tell me to not bring up their recent service outage during the meeting. If you don't have anything nice to say about salesforce, they don't want to hear your voice.
- monkeyspaw 13y ago
  Have you deployed any apps in their Appxchange? I'd love the chance to talk with someone who has done that to hear their POV. Was at Dreamforce last week and it felt like one giant sales-pitch-cum-Anthony-Robbins event. Let me know if you have a few minutes to chat, and how best to contact you. My email is in my profile. Thanks!
  - louhong 13y ago
    I'm happy to answer any questions you might have. Went through the process last year.

reustle 13y ago

We're going to solve the problem of giving our ex-employee's team $1m by giving the runner up, a company we own a portion of, $1m as well.

sswaner 13y ago
Yes, but in a way they are likely damaging the company they own a portion of. They may end up losing the talent that won the award. That company doesn't benefit much as a result, and Salesforce even less.
- TrainedMonkey 13y ago
  Apps were built using salesforce platform. So the chance that salesforce would come out net negative out of this is not as high as you think.
- ritchiea 13y ago
  Possibly but that does nothing to assuage the concern that entries were only seriously considered if you had an inside connect at Salesforce, which is what it looks like when the winners have close ties to the contest holders and many entrants complain that their analytics show their app was never used.
Bawaji 13y ago
Ya...just like the cops who are tasked with investigating themselves and always come up with a reason why it was okay to fatally shoot a 15 year old with a toy gun...ya...
- puredemo 13y ago
  The toy gun had been modified to look just like a real gun, that's actually a lot more understandable than the myriad issues with this Hackathon.

onedev 13y ago

> While the Upshot mobile app used some pre-existing code, this did not violate the rules. Use of pre-existing code was allowable as long as the code didn’t comprise the majority of the app and didn’t violate any third party’s rights. Our internal review determined that Upshot’s mobile app was created during the hackathon and met these criteria. So what does "a majority" really mean? Can I come in with 49% of the code and still be eligible? 49% isn't technically a majority. What about 49.99%? How do you even determine the concept of "a majority"?

recursive 13y ago
Lines of code is a measurable number that could be used.
dllthomas 13y ago
A majority really means more than 50%. 49.99% isn't a majority. These are easy questions. The real issue is poor metrics on which to apply that threshold...

ChrisBland 13y ago

This was the only 'outcome' that was available to salesforce. If they took away UpShots prize money, they would have upset a lot of people who felt that prizes shouldn't be taken away after the fact, that upshot won by playing within the rules, etc. If they kept the ruling how it was, they still would upset a lot of people who felt cheated by upshot using existing code. Realistically they couldn't rejudge the entire competition, and even if they did there would be people complaining about that. They ran the hackathon poorly, they communicated poorly by posting certain things on the forums, etc, they judged it poorly, and now they just want out from under their own mess with the least damage possible Salesforce had one out, throw money at the problem and hope it fades away.

lnanek2 13y ago

Wow, much more impressive response than their first one. Especially good move addressing the private gallery complaint, that's a small detail that shows they paid attention to some of the complaints at least.

usingpond 13y ago

lmao @ Salesforce's developer marketing dude's brilliant response to all of this: "Nuh-uh, it was fair and square, those guys are all totally lying."

phlobot 13y ago

How rich are the people at saleforce getting that they consider financial investment "immaterial". I like that.

leeoniya 13y ago

"It also found that we weren’t clear enough with the final round judges about the use of pre-existing code" because you were expecting the pre-determined winner to be using it?

mrjasonroy 13y ago

Just to add to the incestuous nature - the runner up, healthcare.love, was created by Taptera employees. Taptera's main investor is Salesforce.

kungfoo 13y ago

I wonder what Upshot data code submission looked like? If they submitted just the mobile app, then all that Salesforce got out of it was a Webview + Mic integration, but if Salesforce actually got the NLP code (doubt it)...paying $1mil would have been worth all of this nonsense. The right thing to do would be to ask Upshot to submit ALL their code and add it to Salesforce.com. I think most of the other participants would consider that fair justice.