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India was also colonized. You aren't being unbiased when you point out medicine and technology, but not colonialism.

by tks2103 13y ago

nickff 13y ago
You are correct that India was colonized by the British, and the Empire extracted wealth from the subcontinent while creating institutions of debatable value; it should also be noted that England was previously within the dominion of Rome, and later France. I was not attempting to fully describe the differing circumstances surrounding industrialization of different states (, as I do not have the knowledge or ability to write a complete account); instead I tried to show that they have experienced different opportunities and circumstances through a limited example.
- tks2103 13y ago
  Bullshit, dude. You are being a coward. Does Rome or France conquering England have an effect on the way we should manage global emissions policy or not? Because if it doesn't, why are you mentioning it? Do the different circumstances that India has during industrialization mean they should take a greater role in limiting their emissions or not? Because you mentioned just two items, medicine and technology, which are both positive. And you didn't indicate how they relate to emissions. Instead of slipping in minor irrelevant facts that betray your bias, just state your opinion.
  - adventured 13y ago
    I'm pretty confident you could have expressed what you think is wrong with the parent, without being insulting. "Be civil." http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - tks2103 13y ago
      Absolutely not. "Civility" when discussing colonialism is just stacking the deck in favor of the colonists. Read my post again. What is insulting? Describing behavior as cowardly, and then backing it up with two points that remain unanswered? I could understand if the posts were baseless rants directly insulting the person I replied to with no content whatsoever, but that is not what happened. All of the words in that post were appropriate, given the thesis.
dcc1 13y ago
So was Ireland, were not doing too bad now, thank you
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  And for anyone who discounts the affects of English dominion over Ireland, look up the history of the Irish Potato Famine, during which England continued exports of grain and beef from Ireland to England. This was while one million people died of starvation, and a million more emigrated (most to the US and Canada), a fifth to a quarter of the island's population. A classic case of distribution inequity. The implications in terms of home rule and ongoing political strife between Ireland and England persist to the present time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland) Similar circumstances accompanied the Holodomor -- the Ukranian famine (then part of the USSR) from 1932-1933 in which 2.4-7.5 million people died, again while food was being exported to support the Russian SSR. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ukrainian_famine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ukrainian_famine The point: history is rife with inequities. Addressing the problems we face now is going to have to involve setting those aside. I've speculated that it might be literacy (allowing records of the inequities to be preserved) which has a certain relationship with perpetrating the memory of such injustices (though it's also been pointed out that ignorant societies can be mobilized by demagogues). In the instant case, I think it's fair for India to call for concessions by industrialized nations, but it's ultimately self-defeating to pursue a "growth" policy which will be anything but.
  - tks2103 13y ago
    The general point "history is rife with inequities" is not going to mean anything to any developing nation. "History is rife with inequities" only means something to rich westerners. You are not going to get India on board by claiming Ireland had it just as bad. India's GDP per capita is $1500. Ireland's is $45000. That's a factor of 30. China is going to think the same way. They are going to see any bluster from western countries about emissions as thinly veiled attacks on their ability to industrialize. That's a perfectly reasonable opinion.

India was also colonized. You aren't being unbiased when you point out medicine and technology, but not colonialism.

by tks2103 13y ago

India was also colonized. You aren't being unbiased when you point out medicine and technology, but not colonialism.

You are correct that India was colonized by the British, and the Empire extracted wealth from the subcontinent while creating institutions of debatable value; it should also be noted that England was previously within the dominion of Rome, and later France. I was not attempting to fully describe the differing circumstances surrounding industrialization of different states (, as I do not have the knowledge or ability to write a complete account); instead I tried to show that they have experienced different opportunities and circumstances through a limited example.

tks2103 13y ago
Bullshit, dude. You are being a coward. Does Rome or France conquering England have an effect on the way we should manage global emissions policy or not? Because if it doesn't, why are you mentioning it? Do the different circumstances that India has during industrialization mean they should take a greater role in limiting their emissions or not? Because you mentioned just two items, medicine and technology, which are both positive. And you didn't indicate how they relate to emissions. Instead of slipping in minor irrelevant facts that betray your bias, just state your opinion.
- adventured 13y ago
  I'm pretty confident you could have expressed what you think is wrong with the parent, without being insulting. "Be civil." http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - tks2103 13y ago
    Absolutely not. "Civility" when discussing colonialism is just stacking the deck in favor of the colonists. Read my post again. What is insulting? Describing behavior as cowardly, and then backing it up with two points that remain unanswered? I could understand if the posts were baseless rants directly insulting the person I replied to with no content whatsoever, but that is not what happened. All of the words in that post were appropriate, given the thesis.

dcc1 13y ago

So was Ireland, were not doing too bad now, thank you

dredmorbius 13y ago
And for anyone who discounts the affects of English dominion over Ireland, look up the history of the Irish Potato Famine, during which England continued exports of grain and beef from Ireland to England. This was while one million people died of starvation, and a million more emigrated (most to the US and Canada), a fifth to a quarter of the island's population. A classic case of distribution inequity. The implications in terms of home rule and ongoing political strife between Ireland and England persist to the present time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland) Similar circumstances accompanied the Holodomor -- the Ukranian famine (then part of the USSR) from 1932-1933 in which 2.4-7.5 million people died, again while food was being exported to support the Russian SSR. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ukrainian_famine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ukrainian_famine The point: history is rife with inequities. Addressing the problems we face now is going to have to involve setting those aside. I've speculated that it might be literacy (allowing records of the inequities to be preserved) which has a certain relationship with perpetrating the memory of such injustices (though it's also been pointed out that ignorant societies can be mobilized by demagogues). In the instant case, I think it's fair for India to call for concessions by industrialized nations, but it's ultimately self-defeating to pursue a "growth" policy which will be anything but.
- tks2103 13y ago
  The general point "history is rife with inequities" is not going to mean anything to any developing nation. "History is rife with inequities" only means something to rich westerners. You are not going to get India on board by claiming Ireland had it just as bad. India's GDP per capita is $1500. Ireland's is $45000. That's a factor of 30. China is going to think the same way. They are going to see any bluster from western countries about emissions as thinly veiled attacks on their ability to industrialize. That's a perfectly reasonable opinion.