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Mangalyaan, India's Mars Orbiter, has successfully commenced its journey to Mars
- balakk 13y agoSo does this mean we just sit back & watch for 10 months? Or can something go wrong after this as well?
- daeken 13y agoA lot can go wrong in the meantime: electrical or communication systems could fail, orbital insertion burns could fail (either due to messed up timing, communication, propulsion, or any number of other things), etc etc. But that said, barring any huge design flaws, if you make it out of atmo you're probably going to be just fine. (Usually. Probably.) So it's mainly just a waiting game now.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- iamshs 13y agoMain risk factor of this whole program was the injection into earth orbit with correct orientation. The journey to Mars should be relatively risk-free. There still will be minor corrections en-route to Mars by firing engines. Mainly, now we sit back and wait for it to be captured by Mars gravity, the next major step where failure can occur.
- hrjet 13y ago> the injection into earth orbit with correct orientation. Can that be called a new achievement for the launch vehicle? Is it more difficult than a high orbit satellite?
- swatkat 13y agoI guess it's similar to launching and placing satellites in right orbit, or parking orbit? ISRO's launch vehicle PSLV-XL placed MOM in a parking orbit on Nov 5, 2013 and then ISRO did a series of orbit-raising maneuvers to bring MOM closer to Trans Mars Injection point. This post at The Planetary Society gives an idea about the orbits traversed by MOM: http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/congratulations-due-to-india.html http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/congrat...
- kens 13y agoHere's a summary of Mars missions and their success/failure: http://mars.nasa.gov/programmissions/missions/log/ http://mars.nasa.gov/programmissions/missions/log/ Lots can go wrong on the Mars side. E.g. Mars Polar Lander - smashed into Mars. Beagle 2 - last heard from just before landing. Mars Climate Orbiter - failed to land because of confusion between pounds and Newtons. Deep Space 2 - no communication after landing. Mars Observer - communication lost 3 days from Mars, probably due to fuel leak. See "Mars Curse": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploration_of_Mars#Probing_dif.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploration_of_Mars#Probing_dif....
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- mani04 13y agoFrom that NASA website on mission logs - anybody else noticed that the success rates have dramatically increased after 2000? I am wondering if this has got anything to do with significantly enhanced computing power we have nowadays.
- HarryHirsch 13y agoI prefer to think that this has to do with the fact that NASA got rid of Dan Goldin and his "faster, better, cheaper" approach to project management. In space you can't afford to cut corners. You need three people to tighten a screw: one to set the torque wrench, one to tighten the screw, and one to write the protocol, saying that the screw has been tightened. NASA found out in the 1950s, they forgot and learned it again, and Elon Musk will take note eventually.
- dirtyaura 13y agoInteresting perspective. Is there any analysis written about Goldin's era? I studied AI and robotics in late 90s / early 00s and Rodney Brooks' Behavior-based robotics and NASA's approach were in vogue and were given as examples how to do things (and I believed them too). There is some parallels to MVP thinking in tech community. What I find interesting is that compared to Brooks it was actually Sebastian Thrun that managed to lead teams to build something remarkable (self-driving cars). IMO, his approach was never based on any single philosophical idea or AI technique, but instead his teams build robotic systems that combined many approaches, and the target was always to build something that worked in a real-world situations, like his museum robot.
- caycep 13y agoNice that they are spending Indian taxpayer money on science! (I am biased towards robotic missions vs. getting ppl into orbit at all costs)
- linux_devil 13y agoI pay tax in India but I am happy for this mission but it causes more pain when my money goes into the pockets of corrupt politicians. It's not the country which is poor, it's the corrupt politicians and bureaucracy. Refer to list of Indian scams : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scandals_in_India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scandals_in_India , now annual scam every year is worth $20 billion , I wonder why people are not criticizing the administration and corruption but ISRO.
- bayesianhorse 13y agoThe problem is not so much that countries like India do not have honest, competent politicians, but rather how to tell them apart. Fighting corruption needs transparency and a system that prevents corruption rather than punishing it.
- ams6110 13y agoHad no idea this was even underway.
- TIJ 13y agoSeriously you need to update your knowledge... not knowing about a mars exploration satellites?
- pavel_lishin 13y agoMe neither. I vaguely defend myself by noting that HN seems to be fairly US-centric, and since I live in the US, I tend to hear more about things like SpaceX launches (watched the two aborted ones this week) than I do about the Indian, Chinese or Japanese space programs.
- austinz 13y agoYou're in luck - Chang'e 3 launches tomorrow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang%27e_3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang%27e_3), and assuming it doesn't blow up en route to orbit you'll probably hear more about it (especially as it's forecast to be the first spacecraft in decades to make a soft landing upon the Moon).
- pavel_lishin 13y agoDamn, is there video being streamed anywhere? Edit: I guess it already took off by the time I saw this.
- manojlds 13y agoIt was on HN front page when the orbiter was launched.
- swatkat 13y agoHere are some very informative articles about ISRO MOM, by Emily Lakdawalla of The Planetary Society: http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/congratulations-due-to-india.html http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/congrat... http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/11220947-maven-mom-trajectory-explainer.html http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/1122094... Second link nicely explains the differences between NASA MAVEN and ISRO MOM trajectories.
- allochthon 13y agoImages of the spacecraft and facilities here: http://www.isro.gov.in/pslv-c25/Imagegallery/satellite.aspx http://www.isro.gov.in/pslv-c25/Imagegallery/satellite.aspx.
- nsimmons 13y agoThat's so awesome! They need a better web designer for their site though. That brown background is just horrible.
- parennoob 13y agoI'm Indian, and would like to start a gallery of "ghastly Indian government websites". If you want to gaze in horrified fascination at the train wreck of execrable blink tags, long scrolling marquees, and millions of unintelligible categories, go look at: Delhi Govt.: http://delhi.gov.in/ http://delhi.gov.in/ BSNL (a leading public sector telco): http://www.bsnl.co.in/ http://www.bsnl.co.in/ Bhabha Atomic Research Centre: http://barcrecruit.gov.in/ http://barcrecruit.gov.in/ Nehru Science Centre: http://www.nehrusciencecentre.gov.in/ http://www.nehrusciencecentre.gov.in/ Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research: http://www.igcar.ernet.in/ http://www.igcar.ernet.in/ This being said, I feel pretty good about the fact that ISRO and others' ramshackle websites don't seem to be too indicative of their technical prowess, though they are undoubtedly embarrassing. [Possibly jingoistic downvoters -- do you actually think these websites are decent, or even half-decent? Be honest.]
- coofluence 13y agoGovernment website in India are terrible. Most are built by NIC (National Informatics Center). That works just like an employment scheme with lots of entry-level employees.
- tapsboy 13y agoThat's unlikely to happen soon. Five years back, on behalf of my company, I went to make a technical presentation on how a CMS could benefit in maintaining the website for one of their centers. To my shock, they wanted the CMS to write to a Compact Disc and the CD would then be inserted on the server for copying the content. All of that to manage security risks. That said, I am amazed they now maintain a neat Facebook Page and live stream launches
- chattoraj 13y agoBefore someone makes the inevitable "Why are they spending money on this instead of fixing poverty?" argument: The whole Mars mission costs about as much as making four Bollywood movies. http://www.firstpost.com/india/ten-price-tags-to-put-isro-mars-mission-cost-in-perspective-1213429.html http://www.firstpost.com/india/ten-price-tags-to-put-isro-ma...
- monsterix 13y agoBoth Bollywood and Mangalyan are a distraction from the core issues, poverty being one of them. Why do people react to criticism that is inevitable for such a mission? In my opinion, space probe to Mars is a good idea for space engineers and for the idea of adventure, it should be nurtured. But the moment the Indian Government a$$holes (who have eaten up more than 10000X that amount which a Mangalyan costs) and their media toots start projecting this achievement of engineers as their own "moment of glory" and a proof towards India becoming a global superpower, everything falls flat on the face. There should be no doubt that poverty IS the biggest challenge for us (I am an Indian) to work on, and there are people with achievements in rural tech to help people over with just that. No space wizardry, just basic engineering. Heroism, inspiration and aspiration should be centred and drawn around those people too, India needs it more.
- jlmorton 13y agoAnd this is part of working on poverty, in India and everywhere else. Forget all the other reasons. People need inspiration, and this is one way to provide it. The payoff may not be immediate, but it will come.
- XorNot 13y agoThey also need local jobs in high-tech industries, rather then a continuous brain-drain off to Western nations. India's poverty also has very little to do with "lack of money" as does poverty everywhere - i.e. why does the US have poverty, despite it's incredible wealth?
- bobosha 13y ago
- neil_s 13y agoWhat does this actually mean for non-experts in Astronomy? Is it in a higher orbit around Earth, has it started a slingshot for Mars, or has it started orbiting Mars?
- mahasooq 13y agoIt has left the Earth's orbit and started heading towards Mars.
- swatkat 13y agoIt means, MOM has left Earth's sphere of influence, and it's now orbiting in a heliocentric (Sun-centric) orbit. Later in Sep 2014, when MOM comes close to Mars, its rocket motors will be fired again in order to move towards Mars orbit and get captured by Mars gravity.
- rrich 13y agoThis is awesome news. It's great to now have so many countries doing space exploration. Can't wait to see what they find.
- TIJ 13y agoI was reading an article somewhere when i came across this stat: that americans have spent 10 times as much as indians have put in this mars probe, i mean how is this possible 10x ratio doesn't seem to be justifying either india is real cheap when it comes to scientific instruments or americans are overspending... and former case doesn't look like a possibility considering that mostly the government companies are manufacturing the spare parts for such missions btw i would like to congratulate the Indians if that stat holds any truth.
- fuhrer1996 13y agoWorth looking at: http://www.quora.com/Robert-Frost-Quora-user/What-are-Robert-Frosts-views-on-the-significantly-low-cost-of-Indias-Mars-Orbiter-Mission http://www.quora.com/Robert-Frost-Quora-user/What-are-Robert...
- rttlesnke 13y agoRead the answer and the comments on it. What do experts have to say about this?
- fuhrer1996 13y agoWell, Robert Frost /is/ an expert. He works at NASA. But I guess he was in a bit of a bad mood. That whole month, he kept getting A2A's about MOM.
- swatkat 13y agoCongratulations to ISRO. I was up all night following ISRO's updates :) Mission homepage: http://www.isro.org/mars/home.aspx http://www.isro.org/mars/home.aspx Here are some pics from ISTRAC (ISRO Telemetry, Tracking and Command Network) that was looking over the Trans Mars Injection, and the spacecraft itself: http://www.isro.org/mars/momimg.aspx http://www.isro.org/mars/momimg.aspx Here's a color picture of Earth captured by MOM last week: http://www.isro.gov.in/pslv-c25/Imagegallery/mom-images.aspx http://www.isro.gov.in/pslv-c25/Imagegallery/mom-images.aspx Launch photos of PSLV-XL: http://www.isro.org/pslv-c25/Imagegallery/launchvehicle.aspx http://www.isro.org/pslv-c25/Imagegallery/launchvehicle.aspx Differences between NASA MAVEN and ISRO MOM trajectories: http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/11220947-maven-mom-trajectory-explainer.html http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/1122094... Here's a nice animation detailing the trajectories of MOM and MAVEN, in their heliocentric and geocentric phases: http://sankara.net/mom.html http://sankara.net/mom.html Before jumping to heliocentric orbit, ISRO did a series of interesting orbit-raising maneuvers to build necessary escape velocity to escape from Earth's sphere of influence. Here are the details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Orbiter_Mission#Orbit_raising_manoeuvres http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Orbiter_Mission#Orbit_rais... and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Orbiter_Mission#Mission_profile http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Orbiter_Mission#Mission_pr... Now, MOM has left geocentric orbit and is now in heliocentric (Sun-centric) orbit heading towards Mars. MOM has now entered inter-planetary space. When MOM comes close to Mars in Sep 2014, its rocket motor will be fired to move spacecraft into Mars orbit and get captured by Mars gravity. During this journey, ISRO has planned for four mid-course corrections if needed.
- swatkat 13y agoNASA Eyes on the Solar System is tracking ISRO MOM as well: http://eyes.nasa.gov/ http://eyes.nasa.gov/ NASA Eyes gets spacecraft trajectories from their DSNs. Here's a screenshot showing NASA MAVEN and ISRO MOM: http://i.imgur.com/7l56d7N.jpg http://i.imgur.com/7l56d7N.jpg
- kaushalkpr 13y agoexcellent reply swatkat. Thanks for the info
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- ashray5 13y agounrelated comment triggered by looking at the link, why are Indian websites at large so crappy and appear to be from 1990s? Just like with the insane lawless vehicle traffic, people have become used to crappy websites in India.
- sn41 13y ago1. Ignorance of the administrators - the programmers in the institutes, if any, have to listen to the design ideas of the administrators even when the programmers are more competent and up-to-date. The administrators may be competent in their own areas, but they have to be listened to at all costs. 2. The programmers in these institutes are often sidelined, and their work is seen as inessential. So, many of them lack motivation to update their skills. Regular "refresher courses" to update skill-sets are hardly ever funded. 3. There are a lot of restrictions to government companies outsourcing work to private companies - in general it is very difficult for government companies' funds to flow to private companies - for example, all govt. employees have to fly Air India, even when other airline tickets are cheaper. In things like website development, this means that it is hard (not impossible) to subcontract the work to a non-government agency. Also, the private subcontractors who do get the projects leave after 3 years or so, since there is no maintenance contract built-in. The maintenance contractors who come in later have no idea what the existing code base is. Overall, I think this is a system designed to minimize corruption. Please see a related analysis on the healthcare.gov debacle - "Furthermore, many of the procurement policies that make access to services like AWS difficult have been put in place to prevent corrupt or unjust spending of taxpayers’ money. Unfortunately many of these policies have become so complicated that the issues get obfuscated, they repel innovative and cost effective solutions, and ultimately fail to achieve their original intent. " [1] The policy does a bad job at preventing corruption, anyway. But especially in the case of a fast-changing technology like web development, it is a ridiculous hurdle. (No, I am not a programmer, just an exasperated government employee in India, who is aghast that so much of talent in the country is not allowed to be used just because of ill-made legislation. I am not a fan of vigilante activism either - they have no idea of the kind of policy fetters that people have to deal with in government.) [1] http://www.civicagency.org/2013/10/learning-from-the-healthcare-gov-infrastructure/ http://www.civicagency.org/2013/10/learning-from-the-healthc...
- VladRussian2 13y agoChak De! India.
- imahboob 13y agoHate it when capitalistic countries and their residents start pointing out to poverty in India when ever the see a smaller country out doing them in technology. investing in these technologies helps hundreds of engineers and also sows the seed of ambition in millions of others.
- plaban123 13y agoBoy its not a smaller country. It will explode some day with people.
- bayesianhorse 13y agoThis announcement makes me want to play more KSP ...
- imahboob 13y agoA new cold war in space race has begun..
- judk 13y agoIs this a science project, or a status project? Science would be best, but even as a status project, better Mars Orbiter than more nuclear warheads.
- swatkat 13y agoIt's a technology development and demonstration, and science project. This is the first inter-planetary mission for ISRO, and the next step after their 2009 Moon mission, Chandrayaan-1 :) http://www.isro.org/mars/objectives.aspx http://www.isro.org/mars/objectives.aspx http://www.isro.org/mars/payload.aspx http://www.isro.org/mars/payload.aspx