8 ms·

Jolla CEO: You will soon be able turn your Android device into a Sailfish device

77 points by sampo 13y ago

rwmj 13y ago
He doesn't address the obvious question: Why? Why for the end user? Why for Jolla?
- scrrr 13y ago
  The end user might like a device that is not as interconnected with Google.
  - bookwormAT 13y ago
    you don't need Jolla for that, you can just build your OS on to of Android. There are plenty of Android based OSes out there that do not license Google's apps. If you don't license Google's services then you can do whatever you want, and if you decide to stay compatible then developers can offer their existing apps on your software with little effort.
- xolve 13y ago
  AKAIK Jolla is more open. Its more like a Linux distro than Android. I want something else than trying custom Android ROMs. I want to be fully in control of my device.
  - seabrookmx 13y ago
    The entire UI (all the code in the stack from Mer up) is proprietary. Sailfish is less open than Android. Atleast AOSP is a fully functional OS you can run on your phone (though dramatically less functional than when you include the Google binaries).
- pessimizer 13y ago
  Probably because of the obvious answer: Because the CEO of Jolla thinks that Jolla's operating system is better than others, and the option to switch to something that may be better is a good thing, whether or not you choose to take it.
  - rwmj 13y ago
    Sure, it would be good for my ego if people installed "rwmjOS". But how does it help his company? That is to say, financially? Jolla's apparent killer feature is that it runs Android apps, like, erm, Android. It's not really any more open or cheaper than AOSP.
    - mildtrepidation 13y ago
      How is anyone going to buy your devices if no one has heard of them? The best chance they have to gain traction is to attract users. You can buy marketing until your budget is gone, but that only goes so far; word of mouth is almost certainly the best chance they have to expand their user base, improving their brand awareness, drawing new buyers.
- gmuslera 13y ago
  People reflashing devices is not "all users", and that leaves open a few possibilities. For users, a far better user interface (still prefer the user interface of the N9 over android one), a new app ecosystem (work most android apps, plus jolla native/meego/mer ones, maybe will be a compatibility layer to run ubuntu touch/tizen ones, and as it is based on qt/qml, probably will be easy to port BB10 ones too. And of course, ports of linux apps in general (the N900 had a lot of them) For Jolla is, of course, improving installed base, enabling people to try, or even improve the OS, and generate a critical mass of developers and fans that will make the rest of potential users to see with good eyes the phones with jolla built in. Remember, part of android success was that people was able to install cyanogenmod in their old windows phones. If this is more efficient than android giving new life to old android phones could give enough visibility to the new OS.
  - laureny 13y ago
    > Remember, part of android success was that people was able to install cyanogenmod in their old windows phones. Not really, no. Only a tiny fraction of Android users even know what cyanogen mod is, let alone install it on their phone. That's not at all what made Android successful.
    - TsiCClawOfLight 13y ago
      He's referring to the beginning, were geeks were still important for android.
    - fidotron 13y ago
      A tiny fraction of hundreds of millions still works out in the millions. The number of people that modify Android devices is really quite astonishing.
  - salient 13y ago
    But the Jolla phone doesn't actually use the N9 interface, does it? I personally think it's a pretty ugly and outdated interface, but each to their own. I like Ubuntu Touch more at least aesthetics wise. Android KitKat is prettier than both.
buster 13y ago
I'd love that. I have some older devices sitting around and totally would install Sailfish on it and try it out!
AlexanderDhoore 13y ago
Yes! Good. I'd be worried if they didn't.
jkldotio 13y ago
Good, Google is beginning to really frustrate me. Why can't I cut and paste from the description box on a Youtube video? Serving up a totally broken Google images page to Firefox for Android may be Firefox's fault but they should test with other browsers. It has a totally broken permissions model, notably for location access which after struggling with its nagging for a year I just gave up and now Facebook et al are all dialing in my location constantly. It has totally broken control over background apps waking up as well. You are just a consumer on Android. The founders call Google 'the third half of your brain', and when you use Android you realise you don't control that third half, it's controlled for advertising purposes (with access granted or taken for various government agencies). Ubuntu, Jolla or Firefox need to succeed on mobile because Android is actually worse than Windows 95, XP etc for user customisation and freedom. That's stock on a Nexus too, the custom versions from handset manufacturers are a whole different train wreck.
- hablahaha 13y ago
  Oh man the Samsung version is the epitome of a train wreck. At some point, without my knowledge, NFL Mobile got installed on my phone and now every time I try to open a link, it completely ignores my preferences and asks me what program to open it with, one of which is NFL Mobile. It's just so nonsensical it's laughable. Nonstock Android is worse than Windows vendor bloatware.
  - fidotron 13y ago
    That's quite likely to be your carrier, not that Samsung are beyond reproach (TouchWiz as a selling point?), but a lot of the bundled apps you should blame your carrier for. Nokia's reputation of old in Europe was based on the fact for a long time they were the only manufacturer to tell operators to [guess] themselves and sell relatively clean devices to end users. In the US they never did this, with the result that they never really got traction in that market. With MMS this started to change, to the point one device whenever you selected send message it actually went to the MMS option in the menu, and you'd have to scroll to text message, because the operators had asked to encourage MMS usage as they charged loads for it.
Brakenshire 13y ago
Very interesting section on China: > ”There is no such culture in these parts of the world [Finland], but there are people that are installing new operating systems on their devices. In China it is mainstream. About half of the smartphone buyers are upgrading their older or cheaper devices with a better version of Android.” > “For us it is a possibility to distribute our operating system especially in China. There are websites that already distribute [OS] software and the Chinese customers are doing it so we don’t have to teach them. We just have to get Sailfish to those websites – and to make sure that Sailfish will run on different kind of Android devices.” Half of all smartphone buyers are flashing their devices with new operating systems? That seems astonishing.
- jckt 13y ago
  I know quite a few of these people and most of them say that when they do that it feels like they're using a totally new phone, without much cost.
- Zigurd 13y ago
  China is getting richer but there are so many people and so many with what is still a very modest income compared to the price of a smartphone I'm not surprised that aftermarket ROMs area big thing, even mainstream. I'd bet that lots of shops will do such an upgrade for you for a small price, so widespread expertise in rooting a phone is not required.
humpty44 13y ago
This is the best news I've read all month! I really hope they make the process easy. As an ex-Nokia user I've never been the biggest fan of Google's android monoculture and big brother approach to my privacy. I'd be interested to see how sailfish compares to android in terms of resource utilisation.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
peterdelahaye 13y ago
Maemo, Moblin, LiMo, Bada, MeeGo, mer, Tizen, Tizen NG, Nemo Mobile, Sailfish OS... This is tragic. All this effort gone into endless, pointless rebranding and new website designs instead of new code.
- rzr 13y ago
  What's tizen-ng ? note android did not design it's own kernel they just rebranded it :)
  - panzi 13y ago
    Android (Google) did not rebrand the kernel, they just don't mention it.
pinaceae 13y ago
Android is so widespread due its nature as the QNX of the mobile world. A manufacturer gets it for free and then can add shit on to it. The vast majority of users chose a cheap smartphone, not Android explicitly. Samsung and others do not even mention Android anymore, that for specsheets like the processor being used. China has this large number of Android devices which are non-Google, no Play Store, no Google Now, nothing. Now Jolla comes in and acts as an alternative to Android. For whom? End users? 99% don't give a shit. Like asking which fuel injection systems your car uses. So what does Jolla offer to manufacturers to choose it over Android? Even less restrictions than the open Android? Less cost? If so, it can't be price - will they adapt the OS for specific hardware for free as well? Android compatibility. You want a KILLER feature? iOS compatibility. Enable devs to simply copy over their code and run their shit on Jolla.
- Zigurd 13y ago
  iOS compatibility is not impossible, but it is much harder, and would require a budget, shooting from the hip, 5X more and 2X the time to arrive at something end-users would find usable. You would have to do something like OpenStep, except with iOS APIs. With Android you can use the AOSP bits.
  - puller 13y ago
    Not to mention that iOS compatibility would make a HUGE legal target for Apple
    - Zigurd 13y ago
      That risk is similar to what Xamarin faced, and evidently they were fund-able.
frozenport 13y ago
The only thing that will save Jolla is a time machine. Its important to note that most of us don't like Google for moral rather then practical reasons. The best strategy might be to upstream Android to the Linux kernel and and develop a userland clone.
- htns 13y ago
  Jolla is a pretty small company so selling relatively overpriced phones just with the appeal of a different OS to a very small market might be profitable. At least it's a saner strategy than them trying to go against Google ":D"
Zigurd 13y ago
I think Jolla has the best chance among the new entrants in mobile OSs, but I think this is a fairly minor issue. You can run Ubuntu touch on many Android devices, too. It's more important for Ubuntu because they don't have their own handset or an OEM launch partner. I would rather have a Jolla handset.
da_n 13y ago
I've already decided looking at 4.4 that I will do as much as possible to avoid Android for my next phone. I am interested in Jolla, but not as convinced about them being truly open as Mozilla is etc, they need to convince me better of their real motives and philosophy. Google have become very clear, now that they have decided to close almost everything on Android, no more SMS app, Google Now baked into the launcher, everything is G+ now, gallery app is on deathwatch. I feel like a peasant to Google, while they battle with the OEMs, Samsung, carriers, social networks etc they simply force feed their services down users throats, there is little point having an Android phone if you do not want to live 100% Google. Google are acting as feudal lords, they command us the peasants to do their bidding. Well I am moving out, I left iOS for a reason, I want my freedom.
- devcpp 13y ago
  Very legitimate concern. Jolla is a company that strives for profit, unlike Mozilla. And as such we can't expect them to have the same motives to keep their platform free. However, Mozilla also doesn't have the same influence, because of that, and makes pretty weak phones.
  - Brakenshire 13y ago
    Jolla have said themselves that they might not attempt to grow quickly as a monolith, but more slowly, and be the centre of many smaller organizations. The original owners have maintained control in order to do that. Bear in mind that the company was born out of the chaos of high finance maneouvring at Nokia.
- eropple 13y ago
  I'm curious how Android's choice of default applications implies less "freedom". Don't like SMS being folded into Hangouts? Use Handcent--it's better anyway. Will the Gallery app disappear? Use QuickPic--it's better anyway. Don't like the new launcher? There's Nova and Apex and Smart and a dozen other really good choices. (They're better anyway, too!) And if that's not enough for you, sure, go try something else, but the dramatics don't really help make your case.
seabrookmx 13y ago
Everyone keeps looking to Sailfish as a FOSS alternative to Android. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the "swipe UI" in Sailfish is proprietary. As for the rest of the OS, it's just Mer (ie. a fork of MeeGo). As AOSP is a fully functional OS even without Google's proprietary bits, I'd say Android is still the better bet. If you are that dedicated, you can use pure AOSP and load all your apps onto the SD card and simply install with the package manager. It's as easy as installing .debs on a Debian based distro or installing from .dmg on a Mac. I think the big takeaway from this is that Mer will be compatible with a bunch more Android devices. This means you can then install Plasma Active on top of it, and have a pure FOSS mobile OS that actually performs well (Plasma Active seems to run quite slick on the first gen Nexus 7 anyways).
contingencies 13y ago
Firefox OS aims to be open, targeting the whole world including developing countries. (Where there's still growth) Jolla is Nordic people trying desperately to maintain a mobile industry. (Targeting existing consumers, who are well catered for) I know which I'm developing for.

77 points by sampo 13y ago

rwmj 13y ago

He doesn't address the obvious question: Why? Why for the end user? Why for Jolla?

scrrr 13y ago
The end user might like a device that is not as interconnected with Google.
- bookwormAT 13y ago
  you don't need Jolla for that, you can just build your OS on to of Android. There are plenty of Android based OSes out there that do not license Google's apps. If you don't license Google's services then you can do whatever you want, and if you decide to stay compatible then developers can offer their existing apps on your software with little effort.
xolve 13y ago
AKAIK Jolla is more open. Its more like a Linux distro than Android. I want something else than trying custom Android ROMs. I want to be fully in control of my device.
- seabrookmx 13y ago
  The entire UI (all the code in the stack from Mer up) is proprietary. Sailfish is less open than Android. Atleast AOSP is a fully functional OS you can run on your phone (though dramatically less functional than when you include the Google binaries).
pessimizer 13y ago
Probably because of the obvious answer: Because the CEO of Jolla thinks that Jolla's operating system is better than others, and the option to switch to something that may be better is a good thing, whether or not you choose to take it.
- rwmj 13y ago
  Sure, it would be good for my ego if people installed "rwmjOS". But how does it help his company? That is to say, financially? Jolla's apparent killer feature is that it runs Android apps, like, erm, Android. It's not really any more open or cheaper than AOSP.
  - mildtrepidation 13y ago
    How is anyone going to buy your devices if no one has heard of them? The best chance they have to gain traction is to attract users. You can buy marketing until your budget is gone, but that only goes so far; word of mouth is almost certainly the best chance they have to expand their user base, improving their brand awareness, drawing new buyers.
gmuslera 13y ago
People reflashing devices is not "all users", and that leaves open a few possibilities. For users, a far better user interface (still prefer the user interface of the N9 over android one), a new app ecosystem (work most android apps, plus jolla native/meego/mer ones, maybe will be a compatibility layer to run ubuntu touch/tizen ones, and as it is based on qt/qml, probably will be easy to port BB10 ones too. And of course, ports of linux apps in general (the N900 had a lot of them) For Jolla is, of course, improving installed base, enabling people to try, or even improve the OS, and generate a critical mass of developers and fans that will make the rest of potential users to see with good eyes the phones with jolla built in. Remember, part of android success was that people was able to install cyanogenmod in their old windows phones. If this is more efficient than android giving new life to old android phones could give enough visibility to the new OS.
- laureny 13y ago
  > Remember, part of android success was that people was able to install cyanogenmod in their old windows phones. Not really, no. Only a tiny fraction of Android users even know what cyanogen mod is, let alone install it on their phone. That's not at all what made Android successful.
  - TsiCClawOfLight 13y ago
    He's referring to the beginning, were geeks were still important for android.
  - fidotron 13y ago
    A tiny fraction of hundreds of millions still works out in the millions. The number of people that modify Android devices is really quite astonishing.
- salient 13y ago
  But the Jolla phone doesn't actually use the N9 interface, does it? I personally think it's a pretty ugly and outdated interface, but each to their own. I like Ubuntu Touch more at least aesthetics wise. Android KitKat is prettier than both.

buster 13y ago

I'd love that. I have some older devices sitting around and totally would install Sailfish on it and try it out!

AlexanderDhoore 13y ago

Yes! Good. I'd be worried if they didn't.

jkldotio 13y ago

Good, Google is beginning to really frustrate me. Why can't I cut and paste from the description box on a Youtube video? Serving up a totally broken Google images page to Firefox for Android may be Firefox's fault but they should test with other browsers. It has a totally broken permissions model, notably for location access which after struggling with its nagging for a year I just gave up and now Facebook et al are all dialing in my location constantly. It has totally broken control over background apps waking up as well. You are just a consumer on Android. The founders call Google 'the third half of your brain', and when you use Android you realise you don't control that third half, it's controlled for advertising purposes (with access granted or taken for various government agencies). Ubuntu, Jolla or Firefox need to succeed on mobile because Android is actually worse than Windows 95, XP etc for user customisation and freedom. That's stock on a Nexus too, the custom versions from handset manufacturers are a whole different train wreck.

hablahaha 13y ago
Oh man the Samsung version is the epitome of a train wreck. At some point, without my knowledge, NFL Mobile got installed on my phone and now every time I try to open a link, it completely ignores my preferences and asks me what program to open it with, one of which is NFL Mobile. It's just so nonsensical it's laughable. Nonstock Android is worse than Windows vendor bloatware.
- fidotron 13y ago
  That's quite likely to be your carrier, not that Samsung are beyond reproach (TouchWiz as a selling point?), but a lot of the bundled apps you should blame your carrier for. Nokia's reputation of old in Europe was based on the fact for a long time they were the only manufacturer to tell operators to [guess] themselves and sell relatively clean devices to end users. In the US they never did this, with the result that they never really got traction in that market. With MMS this started to change, to the point one device whenever you selected send message it actually went to the MMS option in the menu, and you'd have to scroll to text message, because the operators had asked to encourage MMS usage as they charged loads for it.

Brakenshire 13y ago

Very interesting section on China: > ”There is no such culture in these parts of the world [Finland], but there are people that are installing new operating systems on their devices. In China it is mainstream. About half of the smartphone buyers are upgrading their older or cheaper devices with a better version of Android.” > “For us it is a possibility to distribute our operating system especially in China. There are websites that already distribute [OS] software and the Chinese customers are doing it so we don’t have to teach them. We just have to get Sailfish to those websites – and to make sure that Sailfish will run on different kind of Android devices.” Half of all smartphone buyers are flashing their devices with new operating systems? That seems astonishing.

jckt 13y ago
I know quite a few of these people and most of them say that when they do that it feels like they're using a totally new phone, without much cost.
Zigurd 13y ago
China is getting richer but there are so many people and so many with what is still a very modest income compared to the price of a smartphone I'm not surprised that aftermarket ROMs area big thing, even mainstream. I'd bet that lots of shops will do such an upgrade for you for a small price, so widespread expertise in rooting a phone is not required.

humpty44 13y ago

This is the best news I've read all month! I really hope they make the process easy. As an ex-Nokia user I've never been the biggest fan of Google's android monoculture and big brother approach to my privacy. I'd be interested to see how sailfish compares to android in terms of resource utilisation.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

peterdelahaye 13y ago

Maemo, Moblin, LiMo, Bada, MeeGo, mer, Tizen, Tizen NG, Nemo Mobile, Sailfish OS... This is tragic. All this effort gone into endless, pointless rebranding and new website designs instead of new code.

rzr 13y ago
What's tizen-ng ? note android did not design it's own kernel they just rebranded it :)
- panzi 13y ago
  Android (Google) did not rebrand the kernel, they just don't mention it.

pinaceae 13y ago

Android is so widespread due its nature as the QNX of the mobile world. A manufacturer gets it for free and then can add shit on to it. The vast majority of users chose a cheap smartphone, not Android explicitly. Samsung and others do not even mention Android anymore, that for specsheets like the processor being used. China has this large number of Android devices which are non-Google, no Play Store, no Google Now, nothing. Now Jolla comes in and acts as an alternative to Android. For whom? End users? 99% don't give a shit. Like asking which fuel injection systems your car uses. So what does Jolla offer to manufacturers to choose it over Android? Even less restrictions than the open Android? Less cost? If so, it can't be price - will they adapt the OS for specific hardware for free as well? Android compatibility. You want a KILLER feature? iOS compatibility. Enable devs to simply copy over their code and run their shit on Jolla.

Zigurd 13y ago
iOS compatibility is not impossible, but it is much harder, and would require a budget, shooting from the hip, 5X more and 2X the time to arrive at something end-users would find usable. You would have to do something like OpenStep, except with iOS APIs. With Android you can use the AOSP bits.
- puller 13y ago
  Not to mention that iOS compatibility would make a HUGE legal target for Apple
  - Zigurd 13y ago
    That risk is similar to what Xamarin faced, and evidently they were fund-able.

frozenport 13y ago

The only thing that will save Jolla is a time machine. Its important to note that most of us don't like Google for moral rather then practical reasons. The best strategy might be to upstream Android to the Linux kernel and and develop a userland clone.

htns 13y ago
Jolla is a pretty small company so selling relatively overpriced phones just with the appeal of a different OS to a very small market might be profitable. At least it's a saner strategy than them trying to go against Google ":D"

Zigurd 13y ago

I think Jolla has the best chance among the new entrants in mobile OSs, but I think this is a fairly minor issue. You can run Ubuntu touch on many Android devices, too. It's more important for Ubuntu because they don't have their own handset or an OEM launch partner. I would rather have a Jolla handset.

da_n 13y ago

I've already decided looking at 4.4 that I will do as much as possible to avoid Android for my next phone. I am interested in Jolla, but not as convinced about them being truly open as Mozilla is etc, they need to convince me better of their real motives and philosophy. Google have become very clear, now that they have decided to close almost everything on Android, no more SMS app, Google Now baked into the launcher, everything is G+ now, gallery app is on deathwatch. I feel like a peasant to Google, while they battle with the OEMs, Samsung, carriers, social networks etc they simply force feed their services down users throats, there is little point having an Android phone if you do not want to live 100% Google. Google are acting as feudal lords, they command us the peasants to do their bidding. Well I am moving out, I left iOS for a reason, I want my freedom.

devcpp 13y ago
Very legitimate concern. Jolla is a company that strives for profit, unlike Mozilla. And as such we can't expect them to have the same motives to keep their platform free. However, Mozilla also doesn't have the same influence, because of that, and makes pretty weak phones.
- Brakenshire 13y ago
  Jolla have said themselves that they might not attempt to grow quickly as a monolith, but more slowly, and be the centre of many smaller organizations. The original owners have maintained control in order to do that. Bear in mind that the company was born out of the chaos of high finance maneouvring at Nokia.
eropple 13y ago
I'm curious how Android's choice of default applications implies less "freedom". Don't like SMS being folded into Hangouts? Use Handcent--it's better anyway. Will the Gallery app disappear? Use QuickPic--it's better anyway. Don't like the new launcher? There's Nova and Apex and Smart and a dozen other really good choices. (They're better anyway, too!) And if that's not enough for you, sure, go try something else, but the dramatics don't really help make your case.

seabrookmx 13y ago

Everyone keeps looking to Sailfish as a FOSS alternative to Android. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the "swipe UI" in Sailfish is proprietary. As for the rest of the OS, it's just Mer (ie. a fork of MeeGo). As AOSP is a fully functional OS even without Google's proprietary bits, I'd say Android is still the better bet. If you are that dedicated, you can use pure AOSP and load all your apps onto the SD card and simply install with the package manager. It's as easy as installing .debs on a Debian based distro or installing from .dmg on a Mac. I think the big takeaway from this is that Mer will be compatible with a bunch more Android devices. This means you can then install Plasma Active on top of it, and have a pure FOSS mobile OS that actually performs well (Plasma Active seems to run quite slick on the first gen Nexus 7 anyways).

contingencies 13y ago

Firefox OS aims to be open, targeting the whole world including developing countries. (Where there's still growth) Jolla is Nordic people trying desperately to maintain a mobile industry. (Targeting existing consumers, who are well catered for) I know which I'm developing for.