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NSA Spying Risks $35 Billion in U.S. Technology Sales

89 points by puppetmaster3 13y ago

puppetmaster3 13y ago
It's crazy that people don't connect the NSA to their job. Their job disappearing, like Detroit style. Stage 1: denial.
salient 13y ago
I don't think that's enough. It needs to be 10x more than that before the government will start taking this issue seriously, and actually rein on NSA's power. And you can tell by the actions of their insider, Dianne Feinstein, that they have no intention of doing that right now. When she will support bills like Rush Holt's Surveillance State Repeal Act that repeals the Patriot Act and the FISA Amendments Act, then you'll know the government is serious about reining in on their power and actually care about the many billions the US corporations stand to lose from not doing that. Until then, pay no attention to their NSA "reforms" - or better yet, do pay attention, because they are likely to add in a lot of backdoors to give NSA more power by explicitly legalizing many of the things they have been doing, like Feinstein's "FISA Improvements Act", and call your representatives to reject it.
- atmosx 13y ago
  Give it some time, we will get there sooner or later.
- Zigurd 13y ago
  I think you can count on that happening. If Cisco sneezed last quarter, the whole telecom infrastructure business in the US is going to have pneumonia.
spodek 13y ago
Who would have thought that acting like an asshole would drive people away from you? Was that too blunt and direct? Somehow I don't think it's blunt and direct enough for the decision-makers to figure out this obvious consequence of their actions, however unintended and however well-intentioned they were when they decided to read so many people's emails as if they were entitled.
- noonespecial 13y ago
  I suspect they know. They just happen to be the types of people who would "burn down the kingdom so long as they could be king of the ashes."
  - iwwr 13y ago
    There is no 'they' in this picture, nor a thing that can be personified (i.e. an asshole). It's just a currently broken set of institutions. There's no reason to be angry at institutions, only persons. Direct that anger at particular elected officials, the president, congressmen, and at particular people that act as enablers: people in the media, press or private persons in some (corporate) power that are advocating surveillance.
    - consonants 13y ago
      Disable the legal apparatuses that these institutions derive the legitimacy of their actions from so we aren't enabling the next set of abusers after we take the current one out. That means stricter regulations of privacy and information security in both public and private sectors, along with transparency reforms.
    - chongli 13y ago
      It's just a currently broken set of institutions. There's no reason to be angry at institutions, only persons. Direct that anger at particular elected officials It's funny that you should mention that. I'd argue that institutions are responsible for the elected officials as well. One might even argue that the entire system is so broken that it all needs to be torn down and rebuilt.
      - jotm 13y ago
        No, we just need to replace them with autonomous AIs :-)
    - camus2 13y ago
      > It's just a currently broken set of institutions. no it's not , these institutions work as intended by those who put them in place. And frankly these institutions are not about "terrorism", they are here for industrial espionnage.
forgottenpaswrd 13y ago
Well, don't worry , the NSA is a 50 billion industry itself. So you could always work for the government as Obama wants.
- thisiswrong 13y ago
  "Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini
  - Amadou 13y ago
    - Benito Mussolini Probably not him. http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2013/02/07/fake-quote-files-mussolini-on-fascism-and-corporatism/ http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2013/02/07/fake-quote-f...
    - camus2 13y ago
      That's exactly what Benito Mussolini (and Adolf Hilter) did. + extra free workers in death camps for the german industry.
wavefunction 13y ago
Actually, for all you non-American persons why have been asking what can you do about the NSA... The way to do it is through the pocketbook.
andyl 13y ago
Does Washington want a strong tech industry? Our own Senator Feinstein regularly votes against the interests of Silicon Valley. I see a Washington with lots of enthusiasm for Military and Oil/Gas, but not much for Technology.
- moocowduckquack 13y ago
  Military and Oil/Gas combined has a bigger tech industry than Silicon Valley.
  - mkramlich 13y ago
    it's also one of the Old Big Money sectors. along with Banking/WallStreet. other tech, speaking in obviously broad strokes, is newer/younger money.
    - moocowduckquack 13y ago
      True, I was just pointing out that not supporting silicon valley is not a sign of being against technology, so much as being suspicious of one area of it. Silicon valley aligns itself with a lot more than just technology and I suspect it is other factors than the engineering that the politicians are lukewarm to. From their point of view, a bunch of hippies have just managed to blow the doors off the restrictions on access to presses and other forms of mass influence. I suspect that that is the bit that annoys them.
- lallysingh 13y ago
  Those industries have lobbied a long time, and have been close with people who've built seniority now. It'll take a while for Tech to do that.
- davidw 13y ago
  > Our own Senator Feinstein regularly votes against the interests of Silicon Valley So when are you (plural you) going to put your money and your time where your mouths are and find someone to challenge her, including in the primaries?
dlsx 13y ago
NSA is hurting: US citizens US economy US confidence US foreign relations US privacy US law US This isn't their government, it's ours. Take it back please. 1 person can make a difference. We are in this together.
thisiswrong 13y ago
> International anger over the National Security Agency’s Internet surveillance is hurting global sales by American technology companies and setting back U.S. efforts to promote Internet freedom. Of course yea... because now we all know that the US (government)actively promotes 'freedom'. God the MSM really sucks these days.
diminoten 13y ago
Comments in here currently are on par with YouTube. It's disgusting - we get it, you don't like NSA's spying programs. Breathless pontification on that point is utterly worthless. Stop. Source report for the article: http://www2.itif.org/2013-cloud-computing-costs.pdf http://www2.itif.org/2013-cloud-computing-costs.pdf I always laugh at graphs who move steadily upwards from the beginning of recording to the present, but then do insane things like dip dramatically and then rise prolifically in the future, like figure 1 in the report. After looking at the endnotes for this report, it's clear that the writer has actually bought the meaningless blustering these companies and governments are doing. Threats, promises, and warnings aside, there's a distinct lack of actual action on the part of governments and companies towards this idea of harming US companies for what their government did.
- alexeisadeski3 13y ago
  YouTube comments are great. Everyone always bags on them, but the complainers have no sense of humor.
- abraininavat 13y ago
  I'm curious what you think comments are for, if not for people to express their opinions. Or is it only the comments of people who disagree with you that you'd like to stop?
  - diminoten 13y ago
    I apologize if what I said was unclear (ironically), but expressing one's opinion and expressing one's opinion well are two entirely different topics, and my complaint was of the latter, not the former.
- sentenza 13y ago
  This is all nice and well, but here on the ground, the NSA scandal has really bad consequences for tech companies. Do you know what it is like to live in a jurisdiction where you are actually liable for what happens to the data of your users? Especially if it is data on teachers and pupils, which are (due to the fact that they are children) especially protected, as is the case with education software startups? I can't use the Amazon cloud, can't use App engine, Cloudflare or anything that is connected to the US or companies with a US mother firm. The whole situation is one infuriating clusterfuck and I find it really insulting when people claim that there are no real consequences to the recent scandal.
DanBC 13y ago
I'm gently surprised that people aren't looking at all the other terrible privacy policies and laws in the US. NSA spying is terrible, and must stop, but many companies slurp way too much data, and store it sloppily. Look at the number of password database leaks, and that's stuff that they want to keep secret. The lack of sensible privacy regulation has already caused many companies to not send data to the US.
likerbd14 13y ago
thanks for your share.
RRRA 13y ago
Let's keep the loss above the NSA's budget so they can rationalize their stupidity with the only thing they understand: $
vellum 13y ago
There haven’t been any real political consequences to supporting surveillance. Who’s lost an election over it? Until that happens, expect this to continue. It’s like how now one gets fired for buying IBM. The politicians are worried that if they did support rollback, and then some event happened, they’d get primaried out of office.
vinceguidry 13y ago
Between patent trolls and the NSA, if I'm going to start the software business I've always wanted to start anytime soon, I'll find anywhere else to do it other than here in the 'good ole' USA.
demo1234 13y ago
Honestly, the land grab actions of google and Facebook are Also not helping to change the perception
malandrew 13y ago
"International anger over the National Security Agency’s Internet surveillance is...and setting back U.S. efforts to promote Internet freedom." What?! A surveilled Internet is not a free Internet. 'Salgado said. “This could have severe unintended consequences, such as a reduction in data security, increased cost, decreased competitiveness, and harm to consumers.”" Uncorrected surveillance activity by the NSA likely will result in "unintended consequences, such as a reduction in data security, increased cost, decreased competitiveness, and harm to consumers" Overall very strange journalism here.

89 points by puppetmaster3 13y ago

It's crazy that people don't connect the NSA to their job. Their job disappearing, like Detroit style. Stage 1: denial.

I don't think that's enough. It needs to be 10x more than that before the government will start taking this issue seriously, and actually rein on NSA's power. And you can tell by the actions of their insider, Dianne Feinstein, that they have no intention of doing that right now. When she will support bills like Rush Holt's Surveillance State Repeal Act that repeals the Patriot Act and the FISA Amendments Act, then you'll know the government is serious about reining in on their power and actually care about the many billions the US corporations stand to lose from not doing that. Until then, pay no attention to their NSA "reforms" - or better yet, do pay attention, because they are likely to add in a lot of backdoors to give NSA more power by explicitly legalizing many of the things they have been doing, like Feinstein's "FISA Improvements Act", and call your representatives to reject it.

atmosx 13y ago
Give it some time, we will get there sooner or later.
Zigurd 13y ago
I think you can count on that happening. If Cisco sneezed last quarter, the whole telecom infrastructure business in the US is going to have pneumonia.

spodek 13y ago

Who would have thought that acting like an asshole would drive people away from you? Was that too blunt and direct? Somehow I don't think it's blunt and direct enough for the decision-makers to figure out this obvious consequence of their actions, however unintended and however well-intentioned they were when they decided to read so many people's emails as if they were entitled.

noonespecial 13y ago
I suspect they know. They just happen to be the types of people who would "burn down the kingdom so long as they could be king of the ashes."
- iwwr 13y ago
  There is no 'they' in this picture, nor a thing that can be personified (i.e. an asshole). It's just a currently broken set of institutions. There's no reason to be angry at institutions, only persons. Direct that anger at particular elected officials, the president, congressmen, and at particular people that act as enablers: people in the media, press or private persons in some (corporate) power that are advocating surveillance.
  - consonants 13y ago
    Disable the legal apparatuses that these institutions derive the legitimacy of their actions from so we aren't enabling the next set of abusers after we take the current one out. That means stricter regulations of privacy and information security in both public and private sectors, along with transparency reforms.
  - chongli 13y ago
    It's just a currently broken set of institutions. There's no reason to be angry at institutions, only persons. Direct that anger at particular elected officials It's funny that you should mention that. I'd argue that institutions are responsible for the elected officials as well. One might even argue that the entire system is so broken that it all needs to be torn down and rebuilt.
    - jotm 13y ago
      No, we just need to replace them with autonomous AIs :-)
  - camus2 13y ago
    > It's just a currently broken set of institutions. no it's not , these institutions work as intended by those who put them in place. And frankly these institutions are not about "terrorism", they are here for industrial espionnage.

forgottenpaswrd 13y ago

Well, don't worry , the NSA is a 50 billion industry itself. So you could always work for the government as Obama wants.

thisiswrong 13y ago
"Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini
- Amadou 13y ago
  - Benito Mussolini Probably not him. http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2013/02/07/fake-quote-files-mussolini-on-fascism-and-corporatism/ http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2013/02/07/fake-quote-f...
  - camus2 13y ago
    That's exactly what Benito Mussolini (and Adolf Hilter) did. + extra free workers in death camps for the german industry.

wavefunction 13y ago

Actually, for all you non-American persons why have been asking what can you do about the NSA... The way to do it is through the pocketbook.

andyl 13y ago

Does Washington want a strong tech industry? Our own Senator Feinstein regularly votes against the interests of Silicon Valley. I see a Washington with lots of enthusiasm for Military and Oil/Gas, but not much for Technology.

moocowduckquack 13y ago
Military and Oil/Gas combined has a bigger tech industry than Silicon Valley.
- mkramlich 13y ago
  it's also one of the Old Big Money sectors. along with Banking/WallStreet. other tech, speaking in obviously broad strokes, is newer/younger money.
  - moocowduckquack 13y ago
    True, I was just pointing out that not supporting silicon valley is not a sign of being against technology, so much as being suspicious of one area of it. Silicon valley aligns itself with a lot more than just technology and I suspect it is other factors than the engineering that the politicians are lukewarm to. From their point of view, a bunch of hippies have just managed to blow the doors off the restrictions on access to presses and other forms of mass influence. I suspect that that is the bit that annoys them.
lallysingh 13y ago
Those industries have lobbied a long time, and have been close with people who've built seniority now. It'll take a while for Tech to do that.
davidw 13y ago
> Our own Senator Feinstein regularly votes against the interests of Silicon Valley So when are you (plural you) going to put your money and your time where your mouths are and find someone to challenge her, including in the primaries?

dlsx 13y ago

NSA is hurting: US citizens US economy US confidence US foreign relations US privacy US law US This isn't their government, it's ours. Take it back please. 1 person can make a difference. We are in this together.

thisiswrong 13y ago

> International anger over the National Security Agency’s Internet surveillance is hurting global sales by American technology companies and setting back U.S. efforts to promote Internet freedom. Of course yea... because now we all know that the US (government)actively promotes 'freedom'. God the MSM really sucks these days.

diminoten 13y ago

Comments in here currently are on par with YouTube. It's disgusting - we get it, you don't like NSA's spying programs. Breathless pontification on that point is utterly worthless. Stop. Source report for the article: http://www2.itif.org/2013-cloud-computing-costs.pdf http://www2.itif.org/2013-cloud-computing-costs.pdf I always laugh at graphs who move steadily upwards from the beginning of recording to the present, but then do insane things like dip dramatically and then rise prolifically in the future, like figure 1 in the report. After looking at the endnotes for this report, it's clear that the writer has actually bought the meaningless blustering these companies and governments are doing. Threats, promises, and warnings aside, there's a distinct lack of actual action on the part of governments and companies towards this idea of harming US companies for what their government did.

alexeisadeski3 13y ago
YouTube comments are great. Everyone always bags on them, but the complainers have no sense of humor.
abraininavat 13y ago
I'm curious what you think comments are for, if not for people to express their opinions. Or is it only the comments of people who disagree with you that you'd like to stop?
- diminoten 13y ago
  I apologize if what I said was unclear (ironically), but expressing one's opinion and expressing one's opinion well are two entirely different topics, and my complaint was of the latter, not the former.
sentenza 13y ago
This is all nice and well, but here on the ground, the NSA scandal has really bad consequences for tech companies. Do you know what it is like to live in a jurisdiction where you are actually liable for what happens to the data of your users? Especially if it is data on teachers and pupils, which are (due to the fact that they are children) especially protected, as is the case with education software startups? I can't use the Amazon cloud, can't use App engine, Cloudflare or anything that is connected to the US or companies with a US mother firm. The whole situation is one infuriating clusterfuck and I find it really insulting when people claim that there are no real consequences to the recent scandal.

DanBC 13y ago

I'm gently surprised that people aren't looking at all the other terrible privacy policies and laws in the US. NSA spying is terrible, and must stop, but many companies slurp way too much data, and store it sloppily. Look at the number of password database leaks, and that's stuff that they want to keep secret. The lack of sensible privacy regulation has already caused many companies to not send data to the US.

likerbd14 13y ago

thanks for your share.

RRRA 13y ago

Let's keep the loss above the NSA's budget so they can rationalize their stupidity with the only thing they understand: $

vellum 13y ago

There haven’t been any real political consequences to supporting surveillance. Who’s lost an election over it? Until that happens, expect this to continue. It’s like how now one gets fired for buying IBM. The politicians are worried that if they did support rollback, and then some event happened, they’d get primaried out of office.

vinceguidry 13y ago

Between patent trolls and the NSA, if I'm going to start the software business I've always wanted to start anytime soon, I'll find anywhere else to do it other than here in the 'good ole' USA.

demo1234 13y ago

Honestly, the land grab actions of google and Facebook are Also not helping to change the perception

malandrew 13y ago

"International anger over the National Security Agency’s Internet surveillance is...and setting back U.S. efforts to promote Internet freedom." What?! A surveilled Internet is not a free Internet. 'Salgado said. “This could have severe unintended consequences, such as a reduction in data security, increased cost, decreased competitiveness, and harm to consumers.”" Uncorrected surveillance activity by the NSA likely will result in "unintended consequences, such as a reduction in data security, increased cost, decreased competitiveness, and harm to consumers" Overall very strange journalism here.