6 ms·

It's already worse than that. There are many products which have a smaller size of that's more expensive than the larger size because the smaller one is WIC-app

by ewzimm 13y ago

It's already worse than that. There are many products which have a smaller size of that's more expensive than the larger size because the smaller one is WIC-approved. There's targeted price-gouging for people who are forced by the government to buy specific products. There are also ridiculous loopholes. People buy soda and milk with returnable bottles, walk outside, pour it out, return the bottles for cash, and buy a beer. This happens consistently at grocery stores.

mistermann 13y ago
> People buy soda and milk with returnable bottles, walk outside, pour it out, return the bottles for cash, and buy a beer. This happens consistently at grocery stores. This is a perfect example of how all people do not in fact act in a responsible manner as many people would have us believe when discussing topics such as this. Some people simply are unwilling or unable to even semi-wisely manage the life of a human being, which shouldn't be that shameful really considering how complex of a job it is nowadays. In many cases, some people really do know what is better for certain others.
- atmosx 13y ago
  Okay, but you're talking as if this is the default behavior while it may very well not be. I'd like to see some numbers to back-up these claims as general behavior rather than "a friend of mine, saw a guy who's uncle was once in a grocery where a guy..."
  - ewzimm 13y ago
    I could show you POS records, but I'm not sure what that would prove. This us not what everyone does, but it was meant as an example of the kind of problems that arise from trying to control consumer behavior that go away if you just give cash. A more extreme example would be the economy of the former U.S.S.R., but I thought exchanging a two dollar milk bottle deposit for beer money was more relevant.
  - mistermann 13y ago
    Actually, I'm not talking as if it is the default behavior, and your comment to me is an excellent example of why these things are so difficult to solve in society. Not all people are rational actors whose behaviors are in their or societies best interest. This is a fact, and it is important to the solving of this problem in a practical manner. But your interpretation of a reported instance of this behavior is that the person pointing it out is asserting that this is common/normal/default (which is incorrect), so (implicitly) this opinion (and any related) can therefore be ignored and removed from the discussion. However, that it is the default behavior isn't in fact being asserted, and it is you who is most incorrect in this small subset of the overall conversation. In my opinion, that seemingly most participants on both sides of the issue are inclined to pick and choose their facts and have little interest in the genuine objective reality of the situation is one of the main reasons that we will never solve problem of this kind in a reasonably efficient manner.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
crucifiction 13y ago
Really? You sound like a snopes advertisement. I believe the most generous glass bottle return is 10c, can return 5c, and that would be down at a recycling center. A six pack of crap beer is $5, meaning you would need to buy 50 bottles or 100 cans, pour them all out, take them to a recycling center and back (bus fair) and then buy some beer. I doubt this happens consistently at grocery stores.
- dllthomas 13y ago
  In CA, that's basically the scenario. In MI, can deposit is 10c, and many grocery stores have returns in the back. The situation described still seems unlikely to be tremendously common, but is more feasible than your reasoning would suggest.
  - ewzimm 13y ago
    In MI, there are 10c deposits for cans and also larger deposits. There are $2.00 milk bottle deposits. Dumping is definitely not the best way to make money from food stamps, but I see it happen every week.
    - dllthomas 13y ago
      Interesting. Noted.
gergles 13y ago
Who cares? The government pays for WIC, so the only people being defrauded in this circumstance are the government. There's no "price gouging" involved here; WIC recipients get a voucher that pays full price for the items on the voucher, no matter what they are or how much that is.
- gnaritas 13y ago
  The government isn't a person, the taxpayer is being defrauded so pretty much everyone should care.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  The point is it's a real-life example of what your parent believes will happen if basic income is implemented.
- PKop 13y ago
  Stop for one second and ask where does the government get that money? Should taxpayers care nothing about being defrauded?
gnaritas 13y ago
> People buy soda and milk with returnable bottles, walk outside, pour it out, return the bottles for cash, and buy a beer. This happens consistently at grocery stores. No it doesn't, poor people aren't stupid; there's far simpler ways to convert food stamps to cash and poor people know them all and they certainly don't waste them like this. It's much simpler to buy groceries for someone else and take their cash for a dollar for dollar exchange. I grew up poor, everyone I knew was on government assistance and they certainly did not and would not waste possible cash by dumping it out to get a few cents off a bottle.

by ewzimm 13y ago

mistermann 13y ago

> People buy soda and milk with returnable bottles, walk outside, pour it out, return the bottles for cash, and buy a beer. This happens consistently at grocery stores. This is a perfect example of how all people do not in fact act in a responsible manner as many people would have us believe when discussing topics such as this. Some people simply are unwilling or unable to even semi-wisely manage the life of a human being, which shouldn't be that shameful really considering how complex of a job it is nowadays. In many cases, some people really do know what is better for certain others.

atmosx 13y ago
Okay, but you're talking as if this is the default behavior while it may very well not be. I'd like to see some numbers to back-up these claims as general behavior rather than "a friend of mine, saw a guy who's uncle was once in a grocery where a guy..."
- ewzimm 13y ago
  I could show you POS records, but I'm not sure what that would prove. This us not what everyone does, but it was meant as an example of the kind of problems that arise from trying to control consumer behavior that go away if you just give cash. A more extreme example would be the economy of the former U.S.S.R., but I thought exchanging a two dollar milk bottle deposit for beer money was more relevant.
- mistermann 13y ago
  Actually, I'm not talking as if it is the default behavior, and your comment to me is an excellent example of why these things are so difficult to solve in society. Not all people are rational actors whose behaviors are in their or societies best interest. This is a fact, and it is important to the solving of this problem in a practical manner. But your interpretation of a reported instance of this behavior is that the person pointing it out is asserting that this is common/normal/default (which is incorrect), so (implicitly) this opinion (and any related) can therefore be ignored and removed from the discussion. However, that it is the default behavior isn't in fact being asserted, and it is you who is most incorrect in this small subset of the overall conversation. In my opinion, that seemingly most participants on both sides of the issue are inclined to pick and choose their facts and have little interest in the genuine objective reality of the situation is one of the main reasons that we will never solve problem of this kind in a reasonably efficient manner.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

crucifiction 13y ago

Really? You sound like a snopes advertisement. I believe the most generous glass bottle return is 10c, can return 5c, and that would be down at a recycling center. A six pack of crap beer is $5, meaning you would need to buy 50 bottles or 100 cans, pour them all out, take them to a recycling center and back (bus fair) and then buy some beer. I doubt this happens consistently at grocery stores.

dllthomas 13y ago
In CA, that's basically the scenario. In MI, can deposit is 10c, and many grocery stores have returns in the back. The situation described still seems unlikely to be tremendously common, but is more feasible than your reasoning would suggest.
- ewzimm 13y ago
  In MI, there are 10c deposits for cans and also larger deposits. There are $2.00 milk bottle deposits. Dumping is definitely not the best way to make money from food stamps, but I see it happen every week.
  - dllthomas 13y ago
    Interesting. Noted.

gergles 13y ago

Who cares? The government pays for WIC, so the only people being defrauded in this circumstance are the government. There's no "price gouging" involved here; WIC recipients get a voucher that pays full price for the items on the voucher, no matter what they are or how much that is.

gnaritas 13y ago
The government isn't a person, the taxpayer is being defrauded so pretty much everyone should care.
sliverstorm 13y ago
The point is it's a real-life example of what your parent believes will happen if basic income is implemented.
PKop 13y ago
Stop for one second and ask where does the government get that money? Should taxpayers care nothing about being defrauded?

gnaritas 13y ago

> People buy soda and milk with returnable bottles, walk outside, pour it out, return the bottles for cash, and buy a beer. This happens consistently at grocery stores. No it doesn't, poor people aren't stupid; there's far simpler ways to convert food stamps to cash and poor people know them all and they certainly don't waste them like this. It's much simpler to buy groceries for someone else and take their cash for a dollar for dollar exchange. I grew up poor, everyone I knew was on government assistance and they certainly did not and would not waste possible cash by dumping it out to get a few cents off a bottle.