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UK Prime Minister: We have put in place Internet filters to block extremism
- noja 13y agoIt's like watching a horrible accident occurring and knowing that you can do nothing.
- lucaspiller 13y agoWe are still free to leave the country (for now...).
- ds9 13y agoVPNs are still legal, but may be monitored, maybe with help of the long arm of the US. Cameron has a warped idea of "democracy" if he thinks this is compatible with it. Citizens are entitled to know the opinions of people everywhere, even the hostile or angry ones. Not to mention the likelihood of secret blocking of more than they're telling the public. Hopefully there will be lists of what is actually blocked, from groups in countries where such investigation can be done safely.
- jsvaughan 13y agoThe word "filters" is not in this text What it actually says is far less inflammatory: "We have had repeated meetings of the extremism task force—it met again yesterday—setting out a whole series of steps that we will take to counter the extremist narrative, including by blocking online sites."
- agravier 13y agoHow is "blocking online sites" different than "filtering"?
- sorenbs 13y agoI was thinking automatic filters that would block specific pages based on the output of some text analysis algorithm. This sounds more like a manually maintained blacklist, which would be very easy to work around using different users on social media and letting followers find you on Google.
- sorenbs 13y agoI was thinking automatic filters that would block specific pages based on the output of some text analysis algorithm. This sounds more like a manually maintained blacklist, which would be very easy to work around using different users on social media and letting followers find you on Google.
- sorenbs 13y agoI was thinking automatic filters that would block specific pages based on the output of some text analysis algorithm. This sounds more like a manually maintained blacklist, which would be very easy to work around using different users on social media and letting followers find you on Google.
- k-mcgrady 13y agoTo me filter implies an automated system. This sounds more like they are blocking specific sites after investigating them.
- mhurron 13y agoI'm willing to bet the wording was picked very carefully to split this exact hair. Automated systems get their block lists from investigations.
- vidarh 13y agoAnd I bet parliament is full of invisible pink unicorns. We can speculate all we want, but making up claims that are totally unsupported, and presenting them as actual statements made by a specific person in this way is pure character assassination.
- josephagoss 13y ago"blocking online sites" implies filter, does it not? Obviously they won't actually put filter in the text, that would be far too direct for a politician.
- ohwp 13y agoThere is a difference. A filter is a dumb blocking mechanism while blocking a specific site could involve research, warrants and so on.
- josephagoss 13y agoIt could involve "research, warrants and so on" but if the UK builds up a large enough intelligence capacity [1], Those warrants and research can be mass processed and then how is this different from a filter? It might not be dumb but it is still a filter. [1] This might not be true, but I feel that Englands intelligence capacity per capita is far greater than any other country in the world.
- vidarh 13y agoThat's not a sufficient reason for making up unsupported titles.
- Stubbs 13y agoIt could, but the title says they have done it, which they haven't.
- kamjam 13y agoWhy don't they just take the site down? Oh wait, it's somewhere else in the world out side the UK jurisdiction. Ok, so the game of cat and mouse begins, we all know how well that's worked with the pirate bay.
- tamersalama 13y agoThe Prime Minister: We have put in place some of the toughest controls that one can possibly have within a democratic Government, and the TPIMs are obviously one part of that. We have had repeated meetings of the extremism task force—it met again yesterday—setting out a whole series of steps that we will take to counter the extremist narrative, including by blocking online sites. Now that I have the opportunity, let me praise Facebook for yesterday reversing the decision it took about the showing of beheading videos online. We will take all these steps and many more to keep our country safe.
- csmuk 13y agohttp://www.aaisp.net/ http://www.aaisp.net/ No filters.
- msy 13y agoAAISP are awesome and any self-respecting geek should be using them but they would have no ability to affect filters of this kind, only the optional porn filter, which they do disable.
- mike-cardwell 13y agoI really wanted to go with AAISP when I moved house recently, but they're just too expensive. To add a 16Mb unlimited/unmetred Sky Broadband connection to my Sky package cost an extra £3/month, whereas AAISP want £25/month for 100GB plus a £50 setup fee. I understand that Sky are subsidising their Internet connection with the rest of their package, but still it's just too much of a difference. I wanted AAISP mostly for the native IPv6, but I can get decent free tunneled IPv6 from Hurricane Electric anyway. [edit]: And any blocks Sky puts in place can easily be routed around via my VPS anyway.
- csmuk 13y agoWell we know how much your principles are worth. Secondly, I've done the same move and it cost £16 to migrate (regrade was required as it was on LLU). I spend £55/month and for that I get the line rental, 300Gb. It's a tiny proportion of my income for a service. I pay way more for gas/electricity. My house has 3 children, a wife, 3 iPads, an XBox 360, Three laptops, two wifi connected televisions, 2 servers and a NAS. I barely touch 100Gb. It's fine.
- mike-cardwell 13y agoIf I wanted to spend an extra ~£30 a month on my principles, spending it on a broadband connection wouldn't be top of my priorities.
- dingaling 13y ago
- meira 13y agoWe need to stop create situations that create extremist groups. There is no need for internet censorship.
- handelaar 13y agoLess shit link to the actual speech in question: http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2013-10-23a.299.8#g300.2 http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2013-10-23a.299.8#... But am flagging for the outrageous misquote in the title.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- basicallydan 13y agoMe too. The word "filter" is not in the text linked to, nor is "internet".
- paganel 13y ago> nor is "internet". There is this: "including by blocking online sites."
- GVIrish 13y agoWell that didn't take long. First it was about porn, now the naked power grab begins. Who gets to define 'extremism'? Will information that Snowden leaked now be deemed extremist material? It seems only natural that the next step will be blocking dissent and content deemed dangerous to the sanctity of the state. People of Great Britain, I hope you're not sleeping on this. Forget the slippery slope, this is the cliff.
- josephagoss 13y agoThe people of England are stereotypically doormats when it comes to this sort of thing. Standing up for rights is not something we/they do very well. We are the most survillienced nation, the population the most docile. That is one of the reasons I moved away, no one cares about this stuff, all they want is TV and quite often dole money. Let the filter roll out! Of course there are exceptions, but nowhere near enough to make a real difference. The Government in England gets what it wants no matter what. EDIT: I mean England, from my travels the other UK countries do not seem to have the same attitude as England does.
- arethuza 13y ago"the most docile" I take it you didn't include the rest of the UK because of the significant number of people in Scotland and Northern Ireland who be quite happy to leave the UK? :-) [Note that I said "significant number" rather than "majority" - the Scottish independence vote is still nearly a year away] PS - Apologies to the Welsh for my lack of knowledge as to your feelings about membership of the UK
- Brakenshire 13y agoBritish leaders voted in by Scotland have shown no more respect for privacy and freedom than their opponents. The last Labour government, overwhelmingly backed by Scotland, proposed mandatory ID cards, and a child-protection Vetting and Barring Scheme which would have seen a quarter of the adult population put on a database, subject to ongoing checks. I've seen nothing which indicates the Scottish electorate believes this is any more of an important issue than people elsewhere in the UK. The idea that intrusion into privacy will fade away with Scottish independence is just in line with the attitude that things in general will magically get better as a result.
- 1angryhacker 13y agoThe actual quote: The Prime Minister: We have put in place some of the toughest controls that one can possibly have within a democratic Government, and the TPIMs are obviously one part of that. We have had repeated meetings of the extremism task force—it met again yesterday—setting out a whole series of steps that we will take to counter the extremist narrative, including by blocking online sites. Now that I have the opportunity, let me praise Facebook for yesterday reversing the decision it took about the showing of beheading videos online. We will take all these steps and many more to keep our country safe.
- josteink 13y agoDo we? And if I were to accept such an extreme stance, who gets to define "extremism" mister prime minister?
- vidarh 13y agoThis is one of the worst cases of editorialising titles I've seen on HN. Usually I'm for allowing some flexibility in the titles, but the current title ("UK Prime Minister: We have put in place Internet filters to block extremism") is a total fabrication not supported by the linked text. Frankly, the misquote in the title borders on libel.
- prof_hobart 13y ago"We have had repeated meetings of the extremism task force it met again yesterday setting out a whole series of steps that we will take to counter the extremist narrative, including by blocking online sites." The only distinctions I can see between this quote and the title are "filter" v "block" and "have" v "will". I'm not sure I see either as hugely affecting the meaning.
- kjjw 13y agoYou think there's no difference between "exists" and "planned to exist"? Thank you very much for making me realise I am wasting my time reading Hacker News comments.
- vidarh 13y agoIt's not even explicitly "planned to exist", but some unspecified number of "steps" using some unspecified number of criteria leading to some unspecified form of blocking, which might very well include a court order and which might very well be challenged in court without ever being put into place if Cameron actually ever even tries to make use of it. Keeping in mind that this is a country where known extremist clerics have been able to continue to preach and organise and avoid extradition despite successive governments trying their hardest to have people thrown out and making rather extreme statements about it. In comparison, this is an entirely non-committal statement about "something" which may or may not turn out to be something to worry about and some unspecified time in the future, should Cameron actually care about it rather than just having rattled off something to sound good in parliament.
- bad_user 13y agoMakes sense. Extremism, along with porn, is corroding childhood.
- Toenex 13y agoI know, as a child I was always chasing magazines blowing in the wind just in case they were pornographic. You just don't see kids doing that these days.
- ds9 13y agoWell I'm glad you are so confident that HM government are going to protect your children with a concept of "extremism" that coincides with your own. And it's too bad you can't monitor or guide your own children's internet exposure, or settle for an optional filter from the ISP or software. What about your neighbors, though? Adults have a legitimate interest in learning what is going on in the world, and reviewing the whole range of opinion. If A is entitled to block B's access to communications that A disapproves, is B then entitled to block A as well? Can you not imagine any harm from living in a mental bubble of only what the government wants you to think?
- bad_user 13y agoThat was sarcasm dude, put some batteries in your detector :-) The "corroding childhood" expression was used recently by Mr. Cameron to justify the nation wide ban on porn and I found his speech to be at the same time hilarious and deeply disturbing. Personally I don't understand how the UK electorate can be so stupid, but whatever, here it is: https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-internet-and-pornography-prime-minister-calls-for-action https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-internet-and-porn...
- jsmithedin 13y agoScottish independence can't come soon enough.
- RyanMcGreal 13y agoMP Julian Smith: "Following the reckless handling by The Guardian of the Snowden leaks..." Cameron: "My hon. Friend is absolutely right." Ugh.
- secoif 13y agoInternet filters are extremism.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- tamersalama 13y agoI wish politicians would one day face the same amount of word-scrutiny a concerned HN poster/commenter does.
- forgottenpass 13y agoEvery so often the idea pops into my head that maybe people are just using HN as a low-risk place to test their corporate communication skills. Maybe they don't even do it maliciously. The same way a freemium game can A-B test their way into an unaware but disgusting exploitation of human psychology, all while the were just trying to use metrics to discover what's fun. So I see HN as a chance to practice, or (more specifically) organically stumble upon rhetorical tricks that play to the audience's desire to let reasonable discussion occur while not actually embodying it. I mean, it's either that or someone is purposefully using a politician's playbook for reshaping conversations.
- mkaziz 13y agoIn Pakistan, you can hide in a cave ... or in a house next to the Army's HQ and no one will know where you are.
- eli_gottlieb 13y agoOh please. We all know that while al-Qaida will obviously be filtered, so will the Socialist Workers' Party, and so won't English Defence League.
- trekky1700 13y agoEnd of days big brother talk aside, it will be interesting to see how this is actually used. Speculation aside, this could be an interesting case study in internet censorship and government responsibility.