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Jury: Samsung Owes Apple Another $290 Million
- aroch 13y agoSo a ~$930mm final judgement. Now for another 5years of appeals
- IBM 13y agoI think the original amount was cut to $600 million so the total would be $890 million. I don't think Apple is too concerned about the size of the judgement either way. EDIT: I stand corrected!
- aroch 13y agoThe first judgement was cut to $639mm [1] Q: How much money is this retrial about? A: It's about a replacement amount for a $410 million portion of the August 2012 $1.049 billion verdict. The replacement amount could be more or less than the original one. Apple will be awarded (subject to an appeal) $639 million plus the replacement amount. __ 1: http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/11/the-truth-is-neither-court-nor-parties.html http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/11/the-truth-is-neither-cour...
- WildUtah 13y agoFOSSpatents is not a legitimate source of news on patent cases. The writer was revealed to be a paid shill available to the highest bidder during the Google v. Oracle trial when the judge forced Oracle to admit supporting his site as a false front.
- gamblor956 13y agoIf you're going to slander someone, you should definitely provide a source.
- aroch 13y agoFOSS is a a good if not great source for mobile patent litigation. Yes, he accepted money from Oracle because he's a goddamn consultant and does the blog to promote both his work and general knowledge. Florian's opinions have turned out to be correct most of the times; he has his finger firmly on the pulse of mobile patent litigation and covers it better than any other person.
- josteink 13y agoI seriously can't believe how much money Apple has been able to troll out of those rounded corners and that end-of-list overscroll effect. And now, to top it off, iOS 7 is built on the holo-principles of Android. It's almost like Apple is doing it merely to taunt its foreign competitors, saying very, very clearly: "Sorry guys. I'm untouchable". Utterly disgusting. At least their attempts to outright ban products have been less successful as of late. There's some hope for a civilized world.
- rlt3 13y agoI'm pretty sure there was more to it than rounded corners.
- IBM 13y agoYou should probably read more than the title and abstract of a patent.
- patmcguire 13y agoHow did no one create the account IBM until 30 days ago?
- stevenwei 13y agoYeah, it's not like they went screen by screen through the iPhone and said 'hey, we need to do what they're doing...' http://www.scribd.com/doc/102317767/Samsung-Relative-Evaluation-Report-on-S1-iPhone http://www.scribd.com/doc/102317767/Samsung-Relative-Evaluat...
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- rayiner 13y agoThis is the stuff that gets missed in these debates. It's not like Apple's attorneys got up in front of the jury, drew a rectangle with rounded corners, wrote PATENTED across it, then sat down. Rather, stuff like what you linked to is what causes juries to award $1 billion. E-mails along the lines of "let's make this look more like the iPhone." Presentations along the lines of "why isn't this more like the iPhone?" Surveys along the lines of "75% of people thought this looked like an iPhone." Market data on customer confusion, etc. This particular presentation is pure gold. Slide after slide that basically convinces the jury that Samsung didn't "play fair" and copied someone else's work instead of doing their own.
- alexeisadeski3 13y agoApple go awayyyyy
- rfnslyr 13y agoApple can get fucked until they come out with a bigger sized screen. Then I hope Samsung pillages them with lawsuits.
- Glyptodon 13y agoI feel sorry for Samsung. I don't know how anyone can buy an Apple product without feeling ashamed anymore. Yes, Samsung made products that looked kind of similar to Apple ones. Big whoop. Competition over litigation, I say.
- bennyg 13y agoI don't feel ashamed at all. The iPhone is literally a better and more pleasant phone to use/develop for in my opinion. That's why I buy it, and probably will continue to buy it. A lot of companies sue over dumb shit - Samsung included. That's the nature of the corporate battleground. I really don't care as long as they aren't suing end users for things that I do with a phone (which includes pretty much every thing you can do with a phone).
- ykl 13y agoYou obviously haven't read the Galaxy S1 design docs then. http://www.scribd.com/doc/102317767/Samsung-Relative-Evaluation-Report-on-S1-iPhone http://www.scribd.com/doc/102317767/Samsung-Relative-Evaluat...
- WaterSponge 13y agoSerious question... Is it not a normal thing to hardcore analyze your offerings against your competitors? And if so is it a bad faith to do these types of analysis inside your company on your products since it exposes you in court? How has the auto industry get getting along so long without suing each other into the ground?
- sbuk 13y ago>Serious question... Is it not a normal thing to hardcore analyze your offerings against your competitors? Yes, but not to this level. This is a guide book to imitating another platform. >And if so is it a bad faith to do these types of analysis inside your company on your products since it exposes you in court? No. I'd suggest that Samsung did go over the top with this. >How has the auto industry get getting along so long without suing each other into the ground? They haven't. The automotive industry is extremely litigious, it just doesn't get page views, dead-tree or internet.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- wnevets 13y agoIf apple doesn't acknowledge loses from foreign courts, why should Samsung?
- threeseed 13y agoAre you saying that Apple isn't complying with international court orders ? Care to provide some evidence of this.
- bigjoecumbo 13y agoIt's unbelievable how much money Apple is extorting from other companies for a simple UI technique. Disgusting.
- emn13 13y agoBut let's be honest, the value of bouncy scroll - as in the cost for an independent invention to come up with something equally good would have been hundreds of millions, so at least it's reasonable, even if it's unethical.
- narcissus 13y agoCompletely off topic, but it's days like these that I truly miss Groklaw...
- josephlord 13y agoIt was never as good with the patent issues especially when Google were involved it never felt balanced (with SCO there really wasn't any need for balance or bias as SCO were so far out there you could report it straight and still have clear bad guys).
- WildUtah 13y agoIt was fine for Oracle v. Google as reporting that one straight provided an obvious bad guy, too. And Samsung v. Apple I also provides many obvious bad guys if you follow the case and understand the industry and read the patents. Apple's claims are garbage but Samsung had so much contempt for the process that they let their lawyers utterly fail to make the case. The judge lost control of the case and ended up with vague and useless jury instructions and a self-contradictory verdict (parts had to be retried recently). The jury foreman admitted to bias and misconduct in public interviews. The PTO keeps gyrating back and forth in 'final' decisions about the validity and meaning of claims to patents at issue. I never saw coverage anywhere else but Groklaw about most of the pathetic failures in the case. Let's hope the Apple ][ and Apple /// cases are handled better. The Motorola v. Microsoft case, on the other hand, revealed bizarre bias on the part of Groklaw. Even when Microsoft was obviously right, Groklaw manufactured sympathy for Googlerola on every issue. But that's not really the question. The essential thing about Groklaw was that they would recruit volunteer reporters to go to court and make extensive and informative reports about what really happened they very same day. Nobody else's reporting ever came close.
- josephlord 13y agoI'm not even sure about that one. Oracle are a bad guy (always) but I'm not sure Google weren't one too in that particular case. If you replay the situation in your head imagining MS in the Google role and Sun in the Oracle role would you have felt the same way? I think the conclusion that API's are not copyrightable is pretty much preposterous from my understanding of copyright law. A decision that there was a 'fair use' right to copy API's for compatibility purposes would have been an interesting and probably valuable development although I'm not sure Dalvik would have applied here. Groklaw's example API to explain what API's (adding numbers I think) was also applied when considering whether there was creativity in expression and correctly the conclusion was that there isn't in the case of adding but then Groklaw inappropriately extrapolated this view to all API's. The court reporting could be useful though you are right. Florian Mueller (http://www.fosspatents.com/ http://www.fosspatents.com/) attends some of the German ones and I find his reporting on the patent cases very good. Groklaw seemed to have taken the view that you couldn't believe a word he said but I never quite understood why (although it might have been the Oracle v. Google case as he didn't see it the Groklaw way and had at some point consulted for Oracle).
- pkill17 13y agoI can't tell if this was an out of line assessment of the jury selection, or an actual description of what happened during deliberation... The six-woman, two-man jury deliberated for part of three days before returning its verdict. During that time, the jury requested additional paper and pens and better lunch, as well as a copy of the sketches of them done by a courtroom artist. As for the lawyers in the class; if a jury starts showing signs that they're overall uninterested in the trial (i.e.: asking for their courtroom portraits), what can litigators do to combat this? Is the only course to appeal for the case to be dismissed? Does it get retried if the jury is found to be negligent?
- WildUtah 13y agoI miss Groklaw. The site owner used to recruit volunteers from the readers to go to the courtroom and write up accounts of the proceedings every day. It was more up to date and informative than the supposedly professional media outlets.
- peterashford 13y agoHells yeah - me too. Groklaw was IMO one of the biggest losses from the whole NSA spying saga.
- shinratdr 13y agoWow, this is one of the worst threads I've seen on HN. Pretty much just /r/technology.