5 ms·

Leonardo Da Vinci's piano heard for the first time after 500 years

155 points by ballard 13y ago

ballard 13y ago
Would like to see it closer up in construction and operation.
- eksith 13y ago
  It's called a "Viola Organista" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viola_organista https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viola_organista Precious little detail on the construction and the only website of a builder seems to be down intermittently. https://web.archive.org/web/20121031145914/http://obuchi.music.coocan.jp/index-e.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20121031145914/http://obuchi.mus...
benologist 13y ago
Direct link instead of 3rd-generation rewrite: http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/music/leonardo-da-vincis-wacky-piano-is-heard-for-the-first-time-after-500-years-20131118-2xpqs.html http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/music/leonardo-da-vin...
fallingOff 13y ago
Does anyone know how long use of this instrument persisted? Wikipedia says that a similar instrument was built in 1575. I expected to hear period pieces, but instead the performer played Baroque and Classical era music.
- ffk 13y ago
  The wording of the article suggests it has never been played to an audience until this year. I suspect it was never built until now.
  - mgnn 13y ago
    According to this interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOrn_z9m9lU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOrn_z9m9lU There were several old builds of the instrument, but they were all lost one way or another.
    - kzrdude 13y ago
      Thanks! A much better video since you can see partly how the instrument works. I like his decoration of the instrument, including the text and year in latin; I guess he is planning for this reconstruction to survive the centuries where the others didn't.
amagumori 13y ago
it's very very cool, but i'm gonna be honest, i just want to pick it apart. as a string musician of many years, it sounds to me like a shitty viola that can play more notes at once. no offense to ol' da vinci.. but i think it could be improved. i say this because a huge amount of the skill in playing a bowed instrument is controlling changes of bow direction and the beginnings of bowings. if you aren't skilled enough, your bow transitions and beginnings are jarring, rather than the liquid sound of a skilled string player. the reason this machine sounds so bad to me is that its design removes a lot of the variables that are important for nuanced tone quality. bowed instruments simply have a lot more variables involved than struck instruments such as pianos or harpsichords. in a violin, viola, or cello, the bow has uneven tension along its length, allowing for many different articulations - it also means that when you start the bowstroke at the top or bottom of the bow, the hair tension is higher at those points. so, given an even downward bow pressure, the start of the stroke at either end of the bow has less friction and therefore less volume than the higher-friction middle, creating a naturally smooth attack as you draw the bow. this says nothing of the ability of the musician to change the bow pressure along the bowstroke, another variable. the viola organista, on the other hand, presses a metal string to a rotating bow of even tension with constant force. since the string and bow are both evenly tense along their length in this design, there is no possibility of controlling the attack and release of a note, giving a binary, on/off, jerky sound with less continuity between notes. but theres even more to this. a traditional bowed instrument not only has uneven tension in the X-axis (the bow axis), but also has uneven tension in the string axis. violins, violas, and cellos all have a bridge. the bridge not only transmits the vibration to the soundboard, it creates a tension differential just like the bow. but the resonant property of the bridge means that the string tension corresponds to resonance. the closer you bow to the bridge, the louder, fuller, and more resonant the tone. but also, the closer you bow to the bridge, the less the tension of the string is affected by the downward bow pressure (since the string is higher tension). so, bowing closer to the bridge, the resonance is large and doesn't change very much with differing bow pressure, while bowing further away from the bridge, the resonance is relatively less but is also affected more by bow pressure (since the string is less tense, so increased downward pressure by the bow pushes the string down and raises its tension). the point of all this shit is to say that traditional bowed string instruments are incredibly complex dynamic systems and a lot of their dynamism has been thrown away in this design, yielding something that offers less tonal control with no tangible benefits beyond being able to bow more strings at once. sorry da vinci.
csmuk 13y ago
Would love some samples from this so I can stick them in my Korg Triton.
rumcajz 13y ago
The principle seems similar to organistrum: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurdy_gurdy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurdy_gurdy
Zenst 13y ago
Interesting sound, a bit of a cross between a oboe and harpsichord with an air of church organ about it. I do feel though this type of sound is more adapt towards lighter, slower tempo music and may not be played in its element in the video along with the article. I could very much imagine it being fantastic compliment music wise for stage shows and given the time and period this was conceieved, then too me that makes perfect sense. Perhaps if you got an electric guitar and went back 500 years and played music of the time and period then the aspect that certain instuments lend themselfs much easier too certain music types and styles and tempo would stand out more. I do though often wonder how Da Vinchi would of got on with a patent system of out times and the endless media distractions, still think of the fun he would have with a 3D printer and in part many great inventions of past time never came about thru cost, time and in most cases technology of the time. This on the other hand does not appear to be a tecnology based limitation and would appear to be something that may of been made and past into anominimity beyond the blueprints per say. Though we do not know beyond "The effect is a sound that da Vinci dreamt of, but never heard; there are no historical records suggesting he or anyone else of his time built the instrument he designed.". Certainly would appear to be a commision based design and something that would be less elaborate than most and completely viable for the time to construct and with that I'm inclined to believe he did hear it, even if it was only in his head.
xerophtye 13y ago
This is pretty amazing stuff! Makes me wonder what else is written in that Codex Atlanticus. Anyone got a link to a digital version of the original manuscript? PS: Yes, the word "Codex" especially in conjuction with Da Vinci reminds me of Assassin's Creed
vojant 13y ago
According to wikipedia it is not first reconstruction of "viola organista’’. "Akio Obuchi built several instruments as early as 1993.[1] In 2004, a modern reconstruction of the viola organista by Akio Obuchi was used in a concert in Genoa, Italy . In 2013, Sławomir Zubrzycki constructed and performed on his own viola organista[2] at the Academy of Music in Kraków." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viola_organista http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viola_organista
- gpvos 13y ago
  As soon as 100 years after Da Vinci, one was built in Nuremberg. http://www.thisiscolossal.com/2013/11/viola-organista/ http://www.thisiscolossal.com/2013/11/viola-organista/
tbarbugli 13y ago
sounds like shit!
ecocentrik 13y ago
I have a few issues with the claims or omissions made regarding this instrument. The piano forte wasn't invented until the 18th century. A few people have already mentioned that the hurdy-gurdy is very similar in function to this instrument. This instrument looks like four hurdy-gurdies stacked for an extended octal range stuck inside a piano enclosure. So what exactly was Da Vinci's contribution to this instrument and how much of Da Vinci's design was "augmented" by the builders?
kordless 13y ago
I guess you could say Da Vinci was a true resonance man.

155 points by ballard 13y ago

ballard 13y ago

Would like to see it closer up in construction and operation.

eksith 13y ago
It's called a "Viola Organista" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viola_organista https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viola_organista Precious little detail on the construction and the only website of a builder seems to be down intermittently. https://web.archive.org/web/20121031145914/http://obuchi.music.coocan.jp/index-e.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20121031145914/http://obuchi.mus...

benologist 13y ago

Direct link instead of 3rd-generation rewrite: http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/music/leonardo-da-vincis-wacky-piano-is-heard-for-the-first-time-after-500-years-20131118-2xpqs.html http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/music/leonardo-da-vin...

fallingOff 13y ago

Does anyone know how long use of this instrument persisted? Wikipedia says that a similar instrument was built in 1575. I expected to hear period pieces, but instead the performer played Baroque and Classical era music.

ffk 13y ago
The wording of the article suggests it has never been played to an audience until this year. I suspect it was never built until now.
- mgnn 13y ago
  According to this interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOrn_z9m9lU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOrn_z9m9lU There were several old builds of the instrument, but they were all lost one way or another.
  - kzrdude 13y ago
    Thanks! A much better video since you can see partly how the instrument works. I like his decoration of the instrument, including the text and year in latin; I guess he is planning for this reconstruction to survive the centuries where the others didn't.

amagumori 13y ago

it's very very cool, but i'm gonna be honest, i just want to pick it apart. as a string musician of many years, it sounds to me like a shitty viola that can play more notes at once. no offense to ol' da vinci.. but i think it could be improved. i say this because a huge amount of the skill in playing a bowed instrument is controlling changes of bow direction and the beginnings of bowings. if you aren't skilled enough, your bow transitions and beginnings are jarring, rather than the liquid sound of a skilled string player. the reason this machine sounds so bad to me is that its design removes a lot of the variables that are important for nuanced tone quality. bowed instruments simply have a lot more variables involved than struck instruments such as pianos or harpsichords. in a violin, viola, or cello, the bow has uneven tension along its length, allowing for many different articulations - it also means that when you start the bowstroke at the top or bottom of the bow, the hair tension is higher at those points. so, given an even downward bow pressure, the start of the stroke at either end of the bow has less friction and therefore less volume than the higher-friction middle, creating a naturally smooth attack as you draw the bow. this says nothing of the ability of the musician to change the bow pressure along the bowstroke, another variable. the viola organista, on the other hand, presses a metal string to a rotating bow of even tension with constant force. since the string and bow are both evenly tense along their length in this design, there is no possibility of controlling the attack and release of a note, giving a binary, on/off, jerky sound with less continuity between notes. but theres even more to this. a traditional bowed instrument not only has uneven tension in the X-axis (the bow axis), but also has uneven tension in the string axis. violins, violas, and cellos all have a bridge. the bridge not only transmits the vibration to the soundboard, it creates a tension differential just like the bow. but the resonant property of the bridge means that the string tension corresponds to resonance. the closer you bow to the bridge, the louder, fuller, and more resonant the tone. but also, the closer you bow to the bridge, the less the tension of the string is affected by the downward bow pressure (since the string is higher tension). so, bowing closer to the bridge, the resonance is large and doesn't change very much with differing bow pressure, while bowing further away from the bridge, the resonance is relatively less but is also affected more by bow pressure (since the string is less tense, so increased downward pressure by the bow pushes the string down and raises its tension). the point of all this shit is to say that traditional bowed string instruments are incredibly complex dynamic systems and a lot of their dynamism has been thrown away in this design, yielding something that offers less tonal control with no tangible benefits beyond being able to bow more strings at once. sorry da vinci.

csmuk 13y ago

Would love some samples from this so I can stick them in my Korg Triton.

rumcajz 13y ago

The principle seems similar to organistrum: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurdy_gurdy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurdy_gurdy

Zenst 13y ago

Interesting sound, a bit of a cross between a oboe and harpsichord with an air of church organ about it. I do feel though this type of sound is more adapt towards lighter, slower tempo music and may not be played in its element in the video along with the article. I could very much imagine it being fantastic compliment music wise for stage shows and given the time and period this was conceieved, then too me that makes perfect sense. Perhaps if you got an electric guitar and went back 500 years and played music of the time and period then the aspect that certain instuments lend themselfs much easier too certain music types and styles and tempo would stand out more. I do though often wonder how Da Vinchi would of got on with a patent system of out times and the endless media distractions, still think of the fun he would have with a 3D printer and in part many great inventions of past time never came about thru cost, time and in most cases technology of the time. This on the other hand does not appear to be a tecnology based limitation and would appear to be something that may of been made and past into anominimity beyond the blueprints per say. Though we do not know beyond "The effect is a sound that da Vinci dreamt of, but never heard; there are no historical records suggesting he or anyone else of his time built the instrument he designed.". Certainly would appear to be a commision based design and something that would be less elaborate than most and completely viable for the time to construct and with that I'm inclined to believe he did hear it, even if it was only in his head.

xerophtye 13y ago

This is pretty amazing stuff! Makes me wonder what else is written in that Codex Atlanticus. Anyone got a link to a digital version of the original manuscript? PS: Yes, the word "Codex" especially in conjuction with Da Vinci reminds me of Assassin's Creed

vojant 13y ago

According to wikipedia it is not first reconstruction of "viola organista’’. "Akio Obuchi built several instruments as early as 1993.[1] In 2004, a modern reconstruction of the viola organista by Akio Obuchi was used in a concert in Genoa, Italy . In 2013, Sławomir Zubrzycki constructed and performed on his own viola organista[2] at the Academy of Music in Kraków." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viola_organista http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viola_organista

gpvos 13y ago
As soon as 100 years after Da Vinci, one was built in Nuremberg. http://www.thisiscolossal.com/2013/11/viola-organista/ http://www.thisiscolossal.com/2013/11/viola-organista/

tbarbugli 13y ago

sounds like shit!

ecocentrik 13y ago

I have a few issues with the claims or omissions made regarding this instrument. The piano forte wasn't invented until the 18th century. A few people have already mentioned that the hurdy-gurdy is very similar in function to this instrument. This instrument looks like four hurdy-gurdies stacked for an extended octal range stuck inside a piano enclosure. So what exactly was Da Vinci's contribution to this instrument and how much of Da Vinci's design was "augmented" by the builders?

kordless 13y ago

I guess you could say Da Vinci was a true resonance man.