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20 minutes flight time, constrained by battery technology. They say it's 'conceivable' that there could be a considerable improvement in battery technology ove

by gress 13y ago

20 minutes flight time, constrained by battery technology. They say it's 'conceivable' that there could be a considerable improvement in battery technology over the next few years to allow up to an hour of flight. I hope so - both for cars and for mobile devices a 3x improvement in battery capacity per unit weight would be transformative. Imagine an iPad air at half the weight again, or a Tesla Roadster with a 750 mile range.

jared314 13y ago
Even the DoE is trying to help battery technology along with $120 million in research funding. http://www.extremetech.com/computing/142155-doe-calls-for-a-chemical-battery-with-5x-capacity-within-5-years-can-it-be-done http://www.extremetech.com/computing/142155-doe-calls-for-a-...
- wuschel 13y ago
  Well, as research goes, $ does not guarantee to reach a specific outcome (it does help tremendously, though). But there is a lot work done nowadays when it comes to batteries, fuel cell membranes and solar cells - so let us hope something will come out of it.
tjoff 13y ago
You mean, imagine an iPad too hot to touch. Because we always optimize for performance, keeping battery on the bare acceptable minimum. With the newest trend to also seal the batteries to ensure that the device has a limited useful life. While I often cringe at how terrible batteries are, the alternative wouldn't be that attractive for mobile devices either. Because we wouldn't have had the same focus on low power if we had decent batteries.
- gress 13y ago
  Do you seriously think that sealed batteries are designed to shorten the life of devices?
  - tjoff 13y ago
    No, but there aren't any less pathetic reasons for it.
    - gress 13y ago
      So you were being deliberately misleading in your earlier comment.
      - tjoff 13y ago
        Wasn't meant to be taken seriously. Just as I don't imagine that apple would create an iPad that was too hot for touch... The gist, and my point is that it is easy to imagine an alternative universe with, for instance, much better battery tech, without considering how our bad batteries have influenced our. Our batteries have forced us to focus on low power designs. Designs that also benefits from low heat output which also benefits from cheaper, smaller and quieter cooling.
        gress 13y ago
        That seems like a strange universe. I don't see why designers would suddenly disregard heat output or noise just because batteries were able to provide more power. Apple doesn't disregard these factors in their AC powered computers, so why would they do so in mobile computers?
        tjoff 13y ago
        Apple don't have much to say about these factors in their AC powered computers. They just buy whatever is on the market. And that's exactly what the market did just a few years ago, "ignored" (in favor for performance) heat output - until it became a big enough problem. http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/CPU-Scaling.jpg http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/CPU-Sc... Just before 2005 power consumption suddenly became a top priority (well, ok, earlier than that but it was around then the results were showing in consumer products across the board). One can argue the same even with modern macbooks that get extremely hot when pressed. That's favoring performance over heat output. In a world were batteries were even worse that would not have been acceptable, now we live on the edge on how much heat we can tolerate. Many of todays phones do get quite hot when gaming and with better batteries I'm sure it wouldn't exactly be less of a problem. Now we are saved by the fact that a battery time of 60 minutes wouldn't be acceptable in a phone and the goal is to get as much performance out of a device that has decent battery life. When battery performance goes up so does the performance of the phone - but not the battery life.
lambda 13y ago
Just came across this article http://www.nature.com/nchem/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nchem.1802.html http://www.nature.com/nchem/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nchem... about an advance in silicon microparticle anodes for lithium ion batteries which claims a capacity of 3000 mA h/g, and retaining similar performance (~2000 mA h/g) over 100 discharge cycles. They don't mention the voltage, so it's a bit hard to compare energy density; at the 3.2 volts common to lithium ion batteries, that's 6400 watt hours per kilogram, but taking a look at some of the charts available (I can't look at the article itself due to the paywall) it looks like it may actually be .5 volts, which means 1000 watt hours per kilogram. Compare to Tesla's batteries, probably the best in the business, which give you ~130 watt hours per kilogram, and this could be a pretty big game changer. Obviously, they will have to improve past 100 discharge cycles, but it looks like substantial gains in battery technology may be coming within the next decade.

by gress 13y ago

jared314 13y ago

Even the DoE is trying to help battery technology along with $120 million in research funding. http://www.extremetech.com/computing/142155-doe-calls-for-a-chemical-battery-with-5x-capacity-within-5-years-can-it-be-done http://www.extremetech.com/computing/142155-doe-calls-for-a-...

wuschel 13y ago
Well, as research goes, $ does not guarantee to reach a specific outcome (it does help tremendously, though). But there is a lot work done nowadays when it comes to batteries, fuel cell membranes and solar cells - so let us hope something will come out of it.

tjoff 13y ago

You mean, imagine an iPad too hot to touch. Because we always optimize for performance, keeping battery on the bare acceptable minimum. With the newest trend to also seal the batteries to ensure that the device has a limited useful life. While I often cringe at how terrible batteries are, the alternative wouldn't be that attractive for mobile devices either. Because we wouldn't have had the same focus on low power if we had decent batteries.

gress 13y ago
Do you seriously think that sealed batteries are designed to shorten the life of devices?
- tjoff 13y ago
  No, but there aren't any less pathetic reasons for it.
  - gress 13y ago
    So you were being deliberately misleading in your earlier comment.
    - tjoff 13y ago
      Wasn't meant to be taken seriously. Just as I don't imagine that apple would create an iPad that was too hot for touch... The gist, and my point is that it is easy to imagine an alternative universe with, for instance, much better battery tech, without considering how our bad batteries have influenced our. Our batteries have forced us to focus on low power designs. Designs that also benefits from low heat output which also benefits from cheaper, smaller and quieter cooling.
      - gress 13y ago
        That seems like a strange universe. I don't see why designers would suddenly disregard heat output or noise just because batteries were able to provide more power. Apple doesn't disregard these factors in their AC powered computers, so why would they do so in mobile computers?
        tjoff 13y ago
        Apple don't have much to say about these factors in their AC powered computers. They just buy whatever is on the market. And that's exactly what the market did just a few years ago, "ignored" (in favor for performance) heat output - until it became a big enough problem. http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/CPU-Scaling.jpg http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/CPU-Sc... Just before 2005 power consumption suddenly became a top priority (well, ok, earlier than that but it was around then the results were showing in consumer products across the board). One can argue the same even with modern macbooks that get extremely hot when pressed. That's favoring performance over heat output. In a world were batteries were even worse that would not have been acceptable, now we live on the edge on how much heat we can tolerate. Many of todays phones do get quite hot when gaming and with better batteries I'm sure it wouldn't exactly be less of a problem. Now we are saved by the fact that a battery time of 60 minutes wouldn't be acceptable in a phone and the goal is to get as much performance out of a device that has decent battery life. When battery performance goes up so does the performance of the phone - but not the battery life.

lambda 13y ago

Just came across this article http://www.nature.com/nchem/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nchem.1802.html http://www.nature.com/nchem/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nchem... about an advance in silicon microparticle anodes for lithium ion batteries which claims a capacity of 3000 mA h/g, and retaining similar performance (~2000 mA h/g) over 100 discharge cycles. They don't mention the voltage, so it's a bit hard to compare energy density; at the 3.2 volts common to lithium ion batteries, that's 6400 watt hours per kilogram, but taking a look at some of the charts available (I can't look at the article itself due to the paywall) it looks like it may actually be .5 volts, which means 1000 watt hours per kilogram. Compare to Tesla's batteries, probably the best in the business, which give you ~130 watt hours per kilogram, and this could be a pretty big game changer. Obviously, they will have to improve past 100 discharge cycles, but it looks like substantial gains in battery technology may be coming within the next decade.