7 ms·

> When I'm supposed to watch my words, I tend to say the wrong ones. No kidding. Volunteering that he was in Al Qaeda territory... to take pictures of plants.

> When I'm supposed to watch my words, I tend to say the wrong ones. No kidding. Volunteering that he was in Al Qaeda territory... to take pictures of plants. Saying he's a nihilist. Suggesting that the levees in New Orleans might break again while he's visiting. Having Jewish ancestry, but denying being Jewish because not religious. Also appears he was also traveling alone to many of these places, without any business reason. Entering the US through Canada without having business in Canada sounds like somebody trying to come in a back door, and being nervous to boot. Even from this one side of the story I'd say the border patrol did their job just fine. I wouldn't have let him into the country in that story.

NateDad 13y ago
I think you're wrong, and I'm sorry that people like you are the ones working on the border. He was obviously travelling all around the world sight-seeing. He had tons of proof of that. The border patrol were paranoid and idiotic. Keeping random people out who "seem" like they might be dangerous is not going to prevent any problems. It's just going to make the rest of the world hate us more.
- raverbashing 13y ago
  "He was obviously travelling all around the world sight-seeing" This is not so obvious. This is one of the possible points of view, of course. "He had tons of proof of that" For example? I'm not sure other countries stamp a reason for entry like the US, it's usually an entry stamp for anything and that's it. I'm also sympathetic to the author, but he was extremely naive. The border control doesn't want to hear about nice food or nice wildlife or other blah blah blah. Direct and cooled down answers will do. "On Vacation" is fine. It's clear his answers (and passport stamps) rang a ton of bells.
  - spuz 13y ago
    Why don't border control want to hear the details of a person's travel history? It would seem naive to me to try to hide details that could help you.
    - raverbashing 13y ago
      This deserves a better explaining. Depending on the details, yes, it's better, like, "oh, I transited through Malaysia when leaving Singapore" But remember "anything you say can and will be used against you", so don't go into details unless needed. And to be honest, someone saying they traveled there because of the Botany, they're either a plant expert or this can be felt as they're hiding something.
  - smileysteve 13y ago
    > The border control doesn't want to hear about nice food or nice wildlife or other blah blah blah. Direct and cooled down answers will do. "On Vacation" is fine. This is a horrible way to greet people to come visit and spend money in your country. My experiences traveling abroad are that most of the other countries have agents that don't make you feel like you are a burden or threat. Imagine actually feeling welcomed when you visit a lush vacation spot.
- surge 13y ago
  So his crack about levees didn't in anyway color or piss off the border patrol? I mean when I'm entering a country, I too like to crack wise about their recent national tragedies to get into the border officer's good graces. He should have followed that up by saying he was taking the train because he heard planes tend to fly into buildings here. Sorry, but it sounds like this guy is a bit of an idiot who didn't help his case, even if the border patrol was overly critical. Trust me, I'm no fan of the TSA or their "SPOT" nonsense, but if I said the things he said, I would expect to get denied just out of spite.
- Spooky23 13y ago
  The Border agents are paid to be paranoid. You don't talk to police like you talk to a friend -- you keep the scope of the conversation limited to the question asked. You don't introduce the topic of Al-Qaeda. You don't go into political/religous discussions. Once you do that, you're putting the border agent/cop in a position where he needs to apply subjective judgement. You avoid that by not inserting unrelated noise into the conversation. This isn't a US issue -- it's a clueless person issue. Related: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
  - smileysteve 13y ago
    That's a horrible way to greet visitors - or to make them feel like they need to research the police before visiting a country.
    - Spooky23 13y ago
      Yes, it is. It's an issue everywhere there are cops and politics. Every country has some goofy immigration thing to deal with. If you travel the world and are ignorant of the countries you visit, you'll run into trouble. For example: Canada is probably one of the most chilled-out countries in the world. Nice place, friendly people, no kafka-factor -- Unless you're travelling with a party of people, and somebody was convicted of DWI a decade ago. That individual cannot enter Canada without a visa. Kind of sucks when you're in a car trying to cross one of the smaller St. Lawrence river crossings -- you're stuck in the middle of nowhere.
nevinera 13y ago
I can't tell if you're joking or not?
- userulluipeste 13y ago
  Regardless, if you'd asked him to send the suspect to Guantanamo Bay he would probably agree (and thank you as he should have thought about that first).
blaco 13y ago
I dont get the Jewish part, would it make a difference if he claims that he's jewish ?
- bsdetector 13y ago
  The border patrol knew he was part Jewish, and that being the case, asked him why he went to country that was hostile to Jews, and he denied being Jewish. It's not about ethnicity, it's about telling the agents something they know is not accurate. This part, like the whole story, was a miscommunication. A better answer would be something like "Well I only have Jewish ancestry from one grandparent so I didn't think that would be a problem".
  - sanoli 13y ago
    Agree. It seems to me that the guy is just a poor communicator at this type of thing. He didn't lie, but he could have had better answers.
  - rbehrends 13y ago
    Judaism has traditionally defined Jewishness as being matrilineal; i.e. you're Jewish if your mother is Jewish. Reform Judaism accepts bilineal ancestry, but on the condition that one has been raised as a Jew. So, yes, he was completely right to deny being Jewish.
    - alexeisadeski3 13y ago
      You expect every border patrol agent to know this?
      - rbehrends 13y ago
        If the border patrol agents use a person's presumed Jewishness as part of their rationale to deny them entry, they should indeed know what they're talking about. It's not something that they were forced to deal with; it was a reason they manufactured themselves (out of whole cloth, as it so happens). Not being familiar with religious customs is not a crime, but then you shouldn't use your ignorance to adjudicate a case.
arethuza 13y ago
Can I invoke Poe's Law here - I have no idea whether your are being serious or not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
fsniper 13y ago
Really? A satire or what? If it is not a satire then I believe people are afraid of their shadows over there in the US. Terrorism is winning a landslide. Hey guys please, don't br islamaphobic. Nobody is trying to bomb inside out US or Israel. People have their own problems and concerns over the world and most of the time it is not orbiting you.
ssiddharth 13y ago
So he should have manufactured a story instead of just telling the truth? What?

NateDad 13y ago

I think you're wrong, and I'm sorry that people like you are the ones working on the border. He was obviously travelling all around the world sight-seeing. He had tons of proof of that. The border patrol were paranoid and idiotic. Keeping random people out who "seem" like they might be dangerous is not going to prevent any problems. It's just going to make the rest of the world hate us more.

raverbashing 13y ago
"He was obviously travelling all around the world sight-seeing" This is not so obvious. This is one of the possible points of view, of course. "He had tons of proof of that" For example? I'm not sure other countries stamp a reason for entry like the US, it's usually an entry stamp for anything and that's it. I'm also sympathetic to the author, but he was extremely naive. The border control doesn't want to hear about nice food or nice wildlife or other blah blah blah. Direct and cooled down answers will do. "On Vacation" is fine. It's clear his answers (and passport stamps) rang a ton of bells.
- spuz 13y ago
  Why don't border control want to hear the details of a person's travel history? It would seem naive to me to try to hide details that could help you.
  - raverbashing 13y ago
    This deserves a better explaining. Depending on the details, yes, it's better, like, "oh, I transited through Malaysia when leaving Singapore" But remember "anything you say can and will be used against you", so don't go into details unless needed. And to be honest, someone saying they traveled there because of the Botany, they're either a plant expert or this can be felt as they're hiding something.
- smileysteve 13y ago
  > The border control doesn't want to hear about nice food or nice wildlife or other blah blah blah. Direct and cooled down answers will do. "On Vacation" is fine. This is a horrible way to greet people to come visit and spend money in your country. My experiences traveling abroad are that most of the other countries have agents that don't make you feel like you are a burden or threat. Imagine actually feeling welcomed when you visit a lush vacation spot.
surge 13y ago
So his crack about levees didn't in anyway color or piss off the border patrol? I mean when I'm entering a country, I too like to crack wise about their recent national tragedies to get into the border officer's good graces. He should have followed that up by saying he was taking the train because he heard planes tend to fly into buildings here. Sorry, but it sounds like this guy is a bit of an idiot who didn't help his case, even if the border patrol was overly critical. Trust me, I'm no fan of the TSA or their "SPOT" nonsense, but if I said the things he said, I would expect to get denied just out of spite.
Spooky23 13y ago
The Border agents are paid to be paranoid. You don't talk to police like you talk to a friend -- you keep the scope of the conversation limited to the question asked. You don't introduce the topic of Al-Qaeda. You don't go into political/religous discussions. Once you do that, you're putting the border agent/cop in a position where he needs to apply subjective judgement. You avoid that by not inserting unrelated noise into the conversation. This isn't a US issue -- it's a clueless person issue. Related: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
- smileysteve 13y ago
  That's a horrible way to greet visitors - or to make them feel like they need to research the police before visiting a country.
  - Spooky23 13y ago
    Yes, it is. It's an issue everywhere there are cops and politics. Every country has some goofy immigration thing to deal with. If you travel the world and are ignorant of the countries you visit, you'll run into trouble. For example: Canada is probably one of the most chilled-out countries in the world. Nice place, friendly people, no kafka-factor -- Unless you're travelling with a party of people, and somebody was convicted of DWI a decade ago. That individual cannot enter Canada without a visa. Kind of sucks when you're in a car trying to cross one of the smaller St. Lawrence river crossings -- you're stuck in the middle of nowhere.

nevinera 13y ago

I can't tell if you're joking or not?

userulluipeste 13y ago
Regardless, if you'd asked him to send the suspect to Guantanamo Bay he would probably agree (and thank you as he should have thought about that first).

blaco 13y ago

I dont get the Jewish part, would it make a difference if he claims that he's jewish ?

bsdetector 13y ago
The border patrol knew he was part Jewish, and that being the case, asked him why he went to country that was hostile to Jews, and he denied being Jewish. It's not about ethnicity, it's about telling the agents something they know is not accurate. This part, like the whole story, was a miscommunication. A better answer would be something like "Well I only have Jewish ancestry from one grandparent so I didn't think that would be a problem".
- sanoli 13y ago
  Agree. It seems to me that the guy is just a poor communicator at this type of thing. He didn't lie, but he could have had better answers.
- rbehrends 13y ago
  Judaism has traditionally defined Jewishness as being matrilineal; i.e. you're Jewish if your mother is Jewish. Reform Judaism accepts bilineal ancestry, but on the condition that one has been raised as a Jew. So, yes, he was completely right to deny being Jewish.
  - alexeisadeski3 13y ago
    You expect every border patrol agent to know this?
    - rbehrends 13y ago
      If the border patrol agents use a person's presumed Jewishness as part of their rationale to deny them entry, they should indeed know what they're talking about. It's not something that they were forced to deal with; it was a reason they manufactured themselves (out of whole cloth, as it so happens). Not being familiar with religious customs is not a crime, but then you shouldn't use your ignorance to adjudicate a case.

arethuza 13y ago

Can I invoke Poe's Law here - I have no idea whether your are being serious or not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

fsniper 13y ago

Really? A satire or what? If it is not a satire then I believe people are afraid of their shadows over there in the US. Terrorism is winning a landslide. Hey guys please, don't br islamaphobic. Nobody is trying to bomb inside out US or Israel. People have their own problems and concerns over the world and most of the time it is not orbiting you.

ssiddharth 13y ago

So he should have manufactured a story instead of just telling the truth? What?