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Why are people desperate to see Tesla fail? Is it a negative PR campaign from the auto or oil industry? This blog post shouldn't need to be written.

by nfm 13y ago

ubernostrum 13y ago
Personally, I just find delicious irony in Musk scrambling to spin fires in his battery-powered vehicles after all the condescending snark he heaped on Boeing...
- deletes 13y ago
  Well to be fair, the Boeing planes were not involved in accidents( as far as i know ).
  - Jtsummers 13y ago
    Correct. They simply caught fire, and there were two potential design flaws in the system. The first was no fire suppression in the compartment with the batteries, only smoke detectors. The second was fire containment, concerns that it would be insufficient (especially paired with the lack of fire suppression systems) to contain a fire. Compare to the Tesla fires: still no fire suppression baked in; deliberate effort in containing and directing the fire away from passengers; ample notice (so far) to drivers that something is wrong! and that they should pull over. Also, I'd take a fire in a car over a fire on a plane any day. The car is: cheaper to repair/replace; already on the ground. If a plane has a fire, sure it'll end up on the ground, but depending on where on the aircraft and the effectiveness of detection and suppression systems it may not be a state where people can simply walk away from it.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
- baddox 13y ago
  Ah, but there's a huge difference. Boeing isn't a company founded by Elon Musk.
alan_cx 13y ago
Its the opposite, especially here. Musk and Tesla are given far more benefit of the doubt than any one else. Criticism is jumped on and scorned very quickly, and is a karma massacre. As such, I normally do not comment on Tesla threads at all. There seems to be little reason applied, its like saying some one's baby is ugly. If it were a Microsoft car catching fire, or over stating benefits and what not, I suspect the reaction would be very, very different. Im beginning to see Tesla as the automotive Linux. Wont be long until we have people claiming Tesla cars cure cancer. This fawning attitude, and unwillingness to allow debate and criticism seriously puts me off Tesla. I mean, even you have tried to suggest that any criticism is not reasoned debate, but oil and automotive negative PR. The criticism cant possibly be reasonable, it simply must be a conspiracy of the oil industry. You even say that the opinion should not be written at all. So much for open society. All this, IMHO, is a big problem for Tesla. When people are being unrealistically positive and rejecting criticism like its some sort of heresy, Tesla becomes an easy target to shoot at. Especially for its enemies. Too much "one of us" vibe here as far a Musk is concerned. He is a great bloke, and Im am very much in the positive camp, I've been advocating and keenly following electric cars for years before Musk ever got involved and I am 100% glad that a man like Musk has invested loads of his own money and time in to it, but fans need to be realistic and not so silly about criticism. Tesla and Musk are not the problem, the fans however are.
- marvin 13y ago
  I think nfm was referring to the media, the established car industry and the financial news industry, rather than a few contributors on Hacker News. I have been asking the same question. Hopefully it won't matter.
  - smackfu 13y ago
    "Much praised product actually has a flaw" is a classic basis for articles in the press. You see it in every industry.
- checker 13y ago
  Tesla : Model S : Elon Musk :: Apple : iPhone : Steve Jobs It's arguable that Apple doesn't deserve some of the loyalty that it has obtained, but that rabid fanbase is good for the bottom line. I'm high on Tesla until there is a real quality control crisis or the competitors catch up.
threeseed 13y ago
I'm not desperate to see Tesla fail. I have just never seen a "perfect" car. And so I question Musk's motives when he acts so aggressively against anyone who claims otherwise.
- Bud 13y ago
  "Aggressively"? How is writing a calm, well-reasoned blog post aggressive? It's not, is the answer. Not at all aggressive.
  - tedunangst 13y ago
    Suing Top Gear was a fairly aggressive move.
  - baddox 13y ago
    This is the first of his posts that I would describe as clearly aggressive. I found his tone very off-putting and defensive, as if the next paragraph could be "You IDIOTS! You're far more likely to be eaten to death by feral hogs than injured in a Tesla car!"
smackfu 13y ago
Musk personally rubs some people the wrong way, and he puts himself out there as the only public face of Tesla. Part of it is a perception of arrogance, part of it is how he comes out guns blazing for any perceived slight of his company.
onebaddude 13y ago
I think electric cars are great technology as well, but some of us are tired of reading about how a what is essentially a heavily-subsidized, California rich-person's "toy" is the greatest thing to happen to the automotive industry ever. To me it isn't so much about wanting to see them fail, it's bringing expectations in line. I don't see many articles around here about the work the other car companies are doing in the space.
- NickM 13y ago
  I think your complaints are pretty well addressed in first few paragraphs of Elon's blog post. The goal of the company from the outset has always been to create an affordable mass-market car, but until they have economies of scale and such, the vehicles are going to be expensive. People aren't excited because Tesla is making ~20k luxury cars a year, they're excited because the Model S is just the beginning. And if you're upset because the cars are government subsidized, I'd like to point out that the conventional auto industries and oil industries have received more than their fair share of subsidies as well over the years.
  - onebaddude 13y ago
    >I think your complaints are pretty well addressed in first few paragraphs of Elon's blog post. Not really. I take everything that Musk says with a grain of salt. Tesla's goal of making a mass-market car is all well and good, but they are a long way from that. They can't seem to make money on high-margin luxury vehicles, so obtaining the scale to build a lower-margin vehicle isn't exactly a cake-walk. I'd like to see them do it, but how does it happen, financially? I'm not sure. Again, my point is that this is always framed as Tesla v. the Auto Industry, when in fact the auto industry is also trying to accomplish the same things that Tesla is. And, at least in my opinion, they have a better chance of actually doing it; they have the scale and profits. Yet places like HN (see some other comments) can't imagine these large companies pulling it off. It's absurd. >I'd like to point out that the conventional auto industries and oil industries have received more than their fair share of subsidies as well over the years. I don't necessarily agree with those subsidies either. But if you think those subsidies and bailouts are equivalent to giving extremely wealthy people a discount on a luxury vehicle, then I guess we have different ideas about what's "fair".
grecy 13y ago
For decades Americans have been told to fear change and the unknown. They've been told things that are different are bad, and the status quo is the way forward. Many decisions are now made out of fear. This has all accelerated since 9/11.
lambda 13y ago
People aren't desperate to see Tesla fail. It's just that stories about something new are much more interesting than stories about something that everyone's familiar with, and stories about danger tend to be more interesting than stories about safety. These add up to a story about the three Teslas catching on fire, as opposed to stories about all of the gasoline cars catching on fire or stories on Tesla's safety record.

Why are people desperate to see Tesla fail? Is it a negative PR campaign from the auto or oil industry? This blog post shouldn't need to be written.

by nfm 13y ago

Why are people desperate to see Tesla fail? Is it a negative PR campaign from the auto or oil industry? This blog post shouldn't need to be written.

ubernostrum 13y ago

Personally, I just find delicious irony in Musk scrambling to spin fires in his battery-powered vehicles after all the condescending snark he heaped on Boeing...

deletes 13y ago
Well to be fair, the Boeing planes were not involved in accidents( as far as i know ).
- Jtsummers 13y ago
  Correct. They simply caught fire, and there were two potential design flaws in the system. The first was no fire suppression in the compartment with the batteries, only smoke detectors. The second was fire containment, concerns that it would be insufficient (especially paired with the lack of fire suppression systems) to contain a fire. Compare to the Tesla fires: still no fire suppression baked in; deliberate effort in containing and directing the fire away from passengers; ample notice (so far) to drivers that something is wrong! and that they should pull over. Also, I'd take a fire in a car over a fire on a plane any day. The car is: cheaper to repair/replace; already on the ground. If a plane has a fire, sure it'll end up on the ground, but depending on where on the aircraft and the effectiveness of detection and suppression systems it may not be a state where people can simply walk away from it.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
baddox 13y ago
Ah, but there's a huge difference. Boeing isn't a company founded by Elon Musk.

alan_cx 13y ago

Its the opposite, especially here. Musk and Tesla are given far more benefit of the doubt than any one else. Criticism is jumped on and scorned very quickly, and is a karma massacre. As such, I normally do not comment on Tesla threads at all. There seems to be little reason applied, its like saying some one's baby is ugly. If it were a Microsoft car catching fire, or over stating benefits and what not, I suspect the reaction would be very, very different. Im beginning to see Tesla as the automotive Linux. Wont be long until we have people claiming Tesla cars cure cancer. This fawning attitude, and unwillingness to allow debate and criticism seriously puts me off Tesla. I mean, even you have tried to suggest that any criticism is not reasoned debate, but oil and automotive negative PR. The criticism cant possibly be reasonable, it simply must be a conspiracy of the oil industry. You even say that the opinion should not be written at all. So much for open society. All this, IMHO, is a big problem for Tesla. When people are being unrealistically positive and rejecting criticism like its some sort of heresy, Tesla becomes an easy target to shoot at. Especially for its enemies. Too much "one of us" vibe here as far a Musk is concerned. He is a great bloke, and Im am very much in the positive camp, I've been advocating and keenly following electric cars for years before Musk ever got involved and I am 100% glad that a man like Musk has invested loads of his own money and time in to it, but fans need to be realistic and not so silly about criticism. Tesla and Musk are not the problem, the fans however are.

marvin 13y ago
I think nfm was referring to the media, the established car industry and the financial news industry, rather than a few contributors on Hacker News. I have been asking the same question. Hopefully it won't matter.
- smackfu 13y ago
  "Much praised product actually has a flaw" is a classic basis for articles in the press. You see it in every industry.
checker 13y ago
Tesla : Model S : Elon Musk :: Apple : iPhone : Steve Jobs It's arguable that Apple doesn't deserve some of the loyalty that it has obtained, but that rabid fanbase is good for the bottom line. I'm high on Tesla until there is a real quality control crisis or the competitors catch up.

threeseed 13y ago

I'm not desperate to see Tesla fail. I have just never seen a "perfect" car. And so I question Musk's motives when he acts so aggressively against anyone who claims otherwise.

Bud 13y ago
"Aggressively"? How is writing a calm, well-reasoned blog post aggressive? It's not, is the answer. Not at all aggressive.
- tedunangst 13y ago
  Suing Top Gear was a fairly aggressive move.
- baddox 13y ago
  This is the first of his posts that I would describe as clearly aggressive. I found his tone very off-putting and defensive, as if the next paragraph could be "You IDIOTS! You're far more likely to be eaten to death by feral hogs than injured in a Tesla car!"

smackfu 13y ago

Musk personally rubs some people the wrong way, and he puts himself out there as the only public face of Tesla. Part of it is a perception of arrogance, part of it is how he comes out guns blazing for any perceived slight of his company.

onebaddude 13y ago

I think electric cars are great technology as well, but some of us are tired of reading about how a what is essentially a heavily-subsidized, California rich-person's "toy" is the greatest thing to happen to the automotive industry ever. To me it isn't so much about wanting to see them fail, it's bringing expectations in line. I don't see many articles around here about the work the other car companies are doing in the space.

NickM 13y ago
I think your complaints are pretty well addressed in first few paragraphs of Elon's blog post. The goal of the company from the outset has always been to create an affordable mass-market car, but until they have economies of scale and such, the vehicles are going to be expensive. People aren't excited because Tesla is making ~20k luxury cars a year, they're excited because the Model S is just the beginning. And if you're upset because the cars are government subsidized, I'd like to point out that the conventional auto industries and oil industries have received more than their fair share of subsidies as well over the years.
- onebaddude 13y ago
  >I think your complaints are pretty well addressed in first few paragraphs of Elon's blog post. Not really. I take everything that Musk says with a grain of salt. Tesla's goal of making a mass-market car is all well and good, but they are a long way from that. They can't seem to make money on high-margin luxury vehicles, so obtaining the scale to build a lower-margin vehicle isn't exactly a cake-walk. I'd like to see them do it, but how does it happen, financially? I'm not sure. Again, my point is that this is always framed as Tesla v. the Auto Industry, when in fact the auto industry is also trying to accomplish the same things that Tesla is. And, at least in my opinion, they have a better chance of actually doing it; they have the scale and profits. Yet places like HN (see some other comments) can't imagine these large companies pulling it off. It's absurd. >I'd like to point out that the conventional auto industries and oil industries have received more than their fair share of subsidies as well over the years. I don't necessarily agree with those subsidies either. But if you think those subsidies and bailouts are equivalent to giving extremely wealthy people a discount on a luxury vehicle, then I guess we have different ideas about what's "fair".

grecy 13y ago

For decades Americans have been told to fear change and the unknown. They've been told things that are different are bad, and the status quo is the way forward. Many decisions are now made out of fear. This has all accelerated since 9/11.

lambda 13y ago

People aren't desperate to see Tesla fail. It's just that stories about something new are much more interesting than stories about something that everyone's familiar with, and stories about danger tend to be more interesting than stories about safety. These add up to a story about the three Teslas catching on fire, as opposed to stories about all of the gasoline cars catching on fire or stories on Tesla's safety record.