7 ms·

I love how anonymity engenders such honest commentary. When people aren't tied down to their reputation/ego, they are free to say what they really think.

QuasarLogic 13y ago
Is this something thats specific to 4chan? I'm not aware of any other popular anonymous boards
- krapp 13y ago
  There are many, many, many other such boards, but none of them are very popular. Unless you like porn.
  - 011011100 13y ago
    Yes, I like porn.
- betterunix 13y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet
- ANTSANTS 13y ago
  4chan started as a clone of the Japanese Futaba imageboard, which was itself a variation on the premise of the (also Japanese) 2ch text board. Other people have since made sites that, as I understand them, boil down to "4chan for people that speak language X" (eg Krautchan (German), Ylilauta (Finnish)) which are themselves fairly popular and influential. Beyond that, there are many small and interesting English-language boards that aren't "just for porn," but as krapp said, most aren't very popular, but tend to have tightly knit communities (as strange as that sounds, talking about an anonymous board) that I'd feel wrong drawing unwanted attention to.
AlexMax 13y ago
Is it really honest? Anonymous discussion tends to bring out the bigots - there's even some of it in the linked thread - but is it their genuine opinion, or could it be that it's just bored teenagers trying to rile someone up for a laugh?
- aspensmonster 13y ago
  It's everything. Truth, Lies, works of fiction and falsehood, hyperbole, bigotry, faggotry...
- GhotiFish 13y ago
  I believe it is, it might not be accurate, but there's no reason not to express yourself. Morderate or extremist. I'll wager many of them are from HN and are just poking fun at what they think are problems. I can also assure you that no one in that thread started with the idea to rile HN up. Once that thread got bigger, I wasn't surprised it was posted here though. I can also say that despite it being totally illogical and pointless, there is a bit of showboating that happens on 4chan. So... take from it what you will, I doubt the intention of the thread is to make anyone on HN mad.
  - SwellJoe 13y ago
    So... take from it what you will, I doubt the intention of the thread is to make anyone on HN mad. I don't get the impression anyone on HN is mad. Much of the commentary in the thread is entirely accurate, and many folks here at HN are pointing out the really funny and really accurate ones...and I've seen some of the same jokes here at HN in the past. And, I've had conversations with tons of folks about the Silicon Valley echo chamber; and there's serious discussion happening pretty regularly about what's broken about this culture we're in. A lot of it's actually quite funny. But, even a thread about HN brought out some of the bigotry of 4chan. Not the bigots against the mostly middle class (or wealthy, or even filthy rich) white people on HN...that's irrelevant. It's not about people being mad, riled up, or outraged. It's just about calling people on their shit. I know it's senseless to do so on 4chan (I have more than passing familiarity with the place), but I can hope that HN is willing to consider the cost of continuing thousands of years of oppressive language and behavior and societal norms, and what that means for our community. I think we'd be better off with more women and people of color and LGBTQ people in our industry; people who casually make sexist, racist, and homophobic jokes do not agree with me, and they express that opinion freely...even here and on reddit, which are merely pseudonymous, casual use of oppressive language and support of oppressive behavior goes unnoticed or encouraged much of the time.
priyadarshy 13y ago
And it has a name: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
SwellJoe 13y ago
Some folks probably should feel tied down by their reputation/ego. Casual sexism, misogyny, racism, homophobia, etc. for a laugh brings the entire discussion down to a level that I don't have any desire to participate in. I think anonymity is awesome. But, 4chan is often on par with YouTube in terms of the quality of its comments. Sure, there's some smart kids there (some younger friends of mine are regularly channers), and a few not-as-smart oldtimers who ought to have grown out of it by now. Notice several comments spend a lot of time talking about the people who call out sexism (as white knights, for instance). They're the kind of sexist who thinks that because they don't believe they are sexist, when they say sexist things, it's not actually sexist. The same kind of racist that says racist things, but because they have a black friend who's totally cool with it, it's all good. The kind of folks that do this are mostly young, mostly white, mostly middle class, and mostly assholes who should stop and think before they speak, whether it is an anonymous forum or not. Racist/sexist/misogynist/homophobic behavior is racist/sexist/misogynist/homophobic, and 4chan is full of it, on a scale that no non-anonymous forum would ever be.
- GhotiFish 13y ago
  I've seen too many discussion that didn't happen because people were stymied by political correctness. It's there because it's constantly stopped, and it should be there.
  - SwellJoe 13y ago
    So, is it mere political correctness which prevents me from calling people "nigger"? Or, is it a desire to respect my fellow human beings? It's not about political correctness. It's about not being a dick. I've said nothing about saying controversial things...I've called out intentional attacks by people with power on people with less power. White kids calling everybody nigger isn't an important discussion that needed to happen to further the discourse on race in America. It's a bunch of privileged white kids being little shits and perpetuating and endorsing centuries of oppression. So, yeah, anonymity is great. But, the culture of 4chan is often racist, misogynist, sexist, and homophobic. That's privileged people having fun reveling in their privilege at the expense of those with less power. I just don't see the appeal. Obviously, I'm not suggesting censorship (or maybe somebody has assumed I am, since I've been downvoted a bit). I'm suggesting that the casual culture of oppressive language as it is used by the mostly white, mostly middle class, people on 4chan is a negative for the world. And, I'm pointing it out for what it is. It always gets wrapped up in, "You just don't understand, it's funny!" But, minstrel shows were considered funny, too. It doesn't make it OK.
Segmentation 13y ago
Anonymity isn't why. You can be anonymous on Hacker News very easily. Most people here are. It's the lack of a karma system that is why people on 4chan post whatever they like.
- babby 13y ago
  It's not Karma. It's the fact that your comments are persistent. On 4chan, they have a life between a few minutes and a few days, and that it really. No persistent ID to lay "claim" to your work. It's not about whether someone else can identify you by your comments, its about the psychology of creating something that will exists for an indefinite time, that your peers will read and judge, and thus judge you. You feel the same feeling even when contributing to 4chan, however, you know it wont matter for long thus it's far less mental weight to deal with.
smsm42 13y ago
You can be anybody on the internet. It is just sad how many people choose to be just random jerks. Somehow those people confuse nihilistic empty sarcasm with "being honest". Usually it has much more with having nothing (else) to say than with being honest.
- blahbl4hblahtoo 13y ago
  That's the most accurate assessment I've seen so far...

QuasarLogic 13y ago

Is this something thats specific to 4chan? I'm not aware of any other popular anonymous boards

krapp 13y ago
There are many, many, many other such boards, but none of them are very popular. Unless you like porn.
- 011011100 13y ago
  Yes, I like porn.
betterunix 13y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet
ANTSANTS 13y ago
4chan started as a clone of the Japanese Futaba imageboard, which was itself a variation on the premise of the (also Japanese) 2ch text board. Other people have since made sites that, as I understand them, boil down to "4chan for people that speak language X" (eg Krautchan (German), Ylilauta (Finnish)) which are themselves fairly popular and influential. Beyond that, there are many small and interesting English-language boards that aren't "just for porn," but as krapp said, most aren't very popular, but tend to have tightly knit communities (as strange as that sounds, talking about an anonymous board) that I'd feel wrong drawing unwanted attention to.

AlexMax 13y ago

Is it really honest? Anonymous discussion tends to bring out the bigots - there's even some of it in the linked thread - but is it their genuine opinion, or could it be that it's just bored teenagers trying to rile someone up for a laugh?

aspensmonster 13y ago
It's everything. Truth, Lies, works of fiction and falsehood, hyperbole, bigotry, faggotry...
GhotiFish 13y ago
I believe it is, it might not be accurate, but there's no reason not to express yourself. Morderate or extremist. I'll wager many of them are from HN and are just poking fun at what they think are problems. I can also assure you that no one in that thread started with the idea to rile HN up. Once that thread got bigger, I wasn't surprised it was posted here though. I can also say that despite it being totally illogical and pointless, there is a bit of showboating that happens on 4chan. So... take from it what you will, I doubt the intention of the thread is to make anyone on HN mad.
- SwellJoe 13y ago
  So... take from it what you will, I doubt the intention of the thread is to make anyone on HN mad. I don't get the impression anyone on HN is mad. Much of the commentary in the thread is entirely accurate, and many folks here at HN are pointing out the really funny and really accurate ones...and I've seen some of the same jokes here at HN in the past. And, I've had conversations with tons of folks about the Silicon Valley echo chamber; and there's serious discussion happening pretty regularly about what's broken about this culture we're in. A lot of it's actually quite funny. But, even a thread about HN brought out some of the bigotry of 4chan. Not the bigots against the mostly middle class (or wealthy, or even filthy rich) white people on HN...that's irrelevant. It's not about people being mad, riled up, or outraged. It's just about calling people on their shit. I know it's senseless to do so on 4chan (I have more than passing familiarity with the place), but I can hope that HN is willing to consider the cost of continuing thousands of years of oppressive language and behavior and societal norms, and what that means for our community. I think we'd be better off with more women and people of color and LGBTQ people in our industry; people who casually make sexist, racist, and homophobic jokes do not agree with me, and they express that opinion freely...even here and on reddit, which are merely pseudonymous, casual use of oppressive language and support of oppressive behavior goes unnoticed or encouraged much of the time.

priyadarshy 13y ago

And it has a name: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect

SwellJoe 13y ago

Some folks probably should feel tied down by their reputation/ego. Casual sexism, misogyny, racism, homophobia, etc. for a laugh brings the entire discussion down to a level that I don't have any desire to participate in. I think anonymity is awesome. But, 4chan is often on par with YouTube in terms of the quality of its comments. Sure, there's some smart kids there (some younger friends of mine are regularly channers), and a few not-as-smart oldtimers who ought to have grown out of it by now. Notice several comments spend a lot of time talking about the people who call out sexism (as white knights, for instance). They're the kind of sexist who thinks that because they don't believe they are sexist, when they say sexist things, it's not actually sexist. The same kind of racist that says racist things, but because they have a black friend who's totally cool with it, it's all good. The kind of folks that do this are mostly young, mostly white, mostly middle class, and mostly assholes who should stop and think before they speak, whether it is an anonymous forum or not. Racist/sexist/misogynist/homophobic behavior is racist/sexist/misogynist/homophobic, and 4chan is full of it, on a scale that no non-anonymous forum would ever be.

GhotiFish 13y ago
I've seen too many discussion that didn't happen because people were stymied by political correctness. It's there because it's constantly stopped, and it should be there.
- SwellJoe 13y ago
  So, is it mere political correctness which prevents me from calling people "nigger"? Or, is it a desire to respect my fellow human beings? It's not about political correctness. It's about not being a dick. I've said nothing about saying controversial things...I've called out intentional attacks by people with power on people with less power. White kids calling everybody nigger isn't an important discussion that needed to happen to further the discourse on race in America. It's a bunch of privileged white kids being little shits and perpetuating and endorsing centuries of oppression. So, yeah, anonymity is great. But, the culture of 4chan is often racist, misogynist, sexist, and homophobic. That's privileged people having fun reveling in their privilege at the expense of those with less power. I just don't see the appeal. Obviously, I'm not suggesting censorship (or maybe somebody has assumed I am, since I've been downvoted a bit). I'm suggesting that the casual culture of oppressive language as it is used by the mostly white, mostly middle class, people on 4chan is a negative for the world. And, I'm pointing it out for what it is. It always gets wrapped up in, "You just don't understand, it's funny!" But, minstrel shows were considered funny, too. It doesn't make it OK.

Segmentation 13y ago

Anonymity isn't why. You can be anonymous on Hacker News very easily. Most people here are. It's the lack of a karma system that is why people on 4chan post whatever they like.

babby 13y ago
It's not Karma. It's the fact that your comments are persistent. On 4chan, they have a life between a few minutes and a few days, and that it really. No persistent ID to lay "claim" to your work. It's not about whether someone else can identify you by your comments, its about the psychology of creating something that will exists for an indefinite time, that your peers will read and judge, and thus judge you. You feel the same feeling even when contributing to 4chan, however, you know it wont matter for long thus it's far less mental weight to deal with.

smsm42 13y ago

You can be anybody on the internet. It is just sad how many people choose to be just random jerks. Somehow those people confuse nihilistic empty sarcasm with "being honest". Usually it has much more with having nothing (else) to say than with being honest.

blahbl4hblahtoo 13y ago
That's the most accurate assessment I've seen so far...