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Protean Echo – Fuse All Your Cards into One
- ForHackernews 13y agoWait, isn't this exactly the same as "Coin" which got a lot of buzz today?
- wmf 13y agoIt's interesting to see two similar projects come out around the same time. Is there some new technology that only makes this possible now?
- dangrossman 13y agoThis one was announced in August 2012. Several others have tried the same thing over the past few years.
- aaronpk 13y agowell, not quite "all", looks like this one has a limit of 3 cards at a time on the Echo card, where the Coin has a limit of 8 at a time.
- fishtoaster 13y agoMore or less: "Q: Echo mimics just 3 cards? A: No. Echo mimics an unlimited number of cards with the help of our free mobile app - simply drag and drop any card you’d like Echo to mimic within the app."
- aaronpk 13y agoIt sounds like you'll have to launch the app to change which three cards are stored on the Echo. This is actually too low of a number for me, so it would end up being more of a hassle to launch the app all the time than it would be to just carry 5 cards everywhere.
- Aradalf 13y agoCoin does the exact same thing except with 8 at a time.
- guyht 13y agoThese guys have been around much longer than Coin. I think this goes to show how much hype being part of YC can generate. Kudos to both products.
- pathikrit 13y agoAlso, https://walla.by/the-wallaby-card https://walla.by/the-wallaby-card - they have been around even longer.
- chimeracoder 13y agoI've been using Wallaby for a while (the company I used to work at invested in them). They're really awesome. I haven't used Coin or Echo for comparison, though.
- jack-r-abbit 13y agoI think Wallaby works differently by being a new plastic card you use and they dynamically route your charges to which ever registered card will give you the best return (cash back, airline points, etc).
- devindotcom 13y ago"Q: When will Echo be available? A: A year ago, we estimated a 2013 availability. We’re still working on perfecting the technology. We haven’t released a revised availability date." I'm all for several kinds of these things, just as we have different kinds of watches and phones. It's a matter of taste more than anything once the basics are established, as they clearly are. And, of course, of getting it to market. Hopefully the Coin I preordered today isn't still in preproduction a year from now.
- Amadou 13y agoCombine this with something like BoA's ShopSafe "disposable" credit card numbers and POS credit card fraud could be practically eliminated. Consumer privacy would also be increased because it will become much more difficult to cross-reference purchases across different merchants. (You'll still have to worry about Visa selling your purchase records, but one step at a time.) https://www.bankofamerica.com/privacy/accounts-cards/shopsafe.go https://www.bankofamerica.com/privacy/accounts-cards/shopsaf... http://www.ecommercebytes.com/cab/abu/y205/m02/abu0137/s02 http://www.ecommercebytes.com/cab/abu/y205/m02/abu0137/s02
- rickyc091 13y agoAre there any other companies / banks that have this disposable credit card concept? I know paypal had it years back, but I haven't seen any surface since then.
- pkaye 13y agoI know Citi Bank has a disposable credit card number feature though their website. You had to log into your credit card account to use it.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- chx 13y agoDisposable credit card numbers in the USA? Inconceivable! An actually secure feature that is widespread in Europe found its way into the US? What has the world come to. Any Canadian implementations?
- dangrossman 13y agoPayPal started offering virtual one-time-use MasterCard cards linked to your PayPal balance in 2004.
- RyJones 13y ago
- beloch 13y ago"Q: Will Echo facilitate card skimming? A: No. Echo users can only mimic payment cards (debit and credit) registered under their name. Sorry skimmers!" I'd like to hear more about how this card is designed not to allow skimmers to use it. My suspicion is that the app will, in fact, be easy enough for skimmers to hack so that they can put anyone's card they want on it, turning it into a pocket skimmer for waiters or anyone who can get their hands on a customer's card for a few seconds. "Q: What happens if I lose Echo? Is it secure? A: Yes, Echo is secure. You can set Echo Card to lock down when out of range of your mobile app. " Again, more information would be nice. Is card data stored in encrypted form and decrypted only at the moment of use via a key provided by the app? If so, are keys securely broadcast to the card? Is card info uploaded to the echo card securely for that matter? This is important to ask, since you might wind up transmitting card data on a public channel repeatedly. There are some pretty big cryptographic concerns here that are completely glossed over. I absolutely would not use this card without knowing more.
- Groxx 13y agoWell, if you lose your credit card, it's all right there and unencrypted, readable with any card reader. Any level of additional security is strictly an improvement, though granted this would be losing three credit cards at once.
- iancarroll 13y agoTo answer your first question, I gather they would be grabbing the name hard-coded in your mag stripe. Can't use multiple cards with different names.
- monkeyspaw 13y agoUnless the software that enforces this is compromised. If the iPhone can be jailbroken by hobbyists, you can bet there will be resources greater than the Protean dev team devoted to hacking this device to bypass their checks. Credit card skimming is big money. A cheap, innocuous device like this could be very interesting.
- pit 13y ago
- lurkinggrue 13y agoFor fun you can even scan friends cards.
- monsterix 13y agoYour card looks sexier than the coin one (to me!). And suddenly we have two competing hot-shots in a day that would bring out the best in each other. Wish you guys and the coin guys ALL THE BEST! Screw all the naysayers, go prove the world really needs lesser cards to carry!
- sciguy77 13y agoWell isn't this awkward with coin and all…
- jm3 13y agoIs it? Not sure, but the Coin team went gangbusters on the promotion and it seems to have worked great for them. I couldn't visit any social site today without someone talking about Coin. But I've a feeling that payment cards are far from a winner-take-all business. The Protean Echo, OTOH, has been in development for some time. Thiago first gave me the demo at the Tech Brewery in Ann Arbor, MI and it blew the doors off anything we'd ever seen that was remotely similar. The form factor of the card itself — clear “Gorilla glass”, like the iPhone screen, with embedded circuits — and the whole user experience are beautiful. I just wish they'd hurry up and release it!
- zxcvgm 13y agoWhen two dynamic magstripe products appear on the front page of HN, I just had to find out how it works. Protean provided a link on the front page FAQ but unfortunately that link doesn't work, so here's the working how-it-works entry[1] and a history of reprogrammable card technologies[2] from their blog. The "magstripe" is essentially an electromagnet that is able to sense the reader's swipe head and start the "playback" along the entire track. If you'd like to build a simple one, you just need to playback a waveform into a coil placed at the swipe head [3]. And regarding their answer on the card skimming bit, it's most likely just a form of software protection. If they can so easily duplicate a card's magstripe, what's stopping anyone from being able to do it (with their product)? I would definitely buy one though. [1] http://blog.getprotean.com/?p=124 http://blog.getprotean.com/?p=124 [2] http://blog.getprotean.com/?p=396 http://blog.getprotean.com/?p=396 [3] http://hackaday.com/2008/08/04/magnetic-stripe-card-spoofer/ http://hackaday.com/2008/08/04/magnetic-stripe-card-spoofer/
- conductr 13y agoGuess they should have made a video, like Coin
- ChuckMcM 13y agoInteresting to see them in the same space. I wonder if someone makes the 'dark' version of this card, connected via your phone to carding networks dynamically becomes a stolen ATM card for you to get cash quickly and then deletes the data after use. Leaving you with only cash and the disguise you used to hide from the ATM camera. Well at least that is what I think the bad guys are thinking right now.
- skadamat 13y agothis is a parody site right?
- Mister_Snuggles 13y agoIt already seems obsolete as it won't work with chip cards. Most POS debit and credit transactions in Canada are now done via chip-cards, so emulating a magstripe isn't helpful. Debit cards: http://www.interac.ca/images/PDFs/interac%20infograph_ENG_FINAL_V3.pdf http://www.interac.ca/images/PDFs/interac%20infograph_ENG_FI...
- X-Istence 13y agoEurope has been doing that for years!
- zobzu 13y agoMan that's so trendy now ;-)
- vezzy-fnord 13y agoThe problem I have with this, is that its greatest strength is also its single point of failure. One card to rule them all, and one card to lose them all.
- mattholtom 13y agoI actually don't want a card. Or a wallet. I'd like my keys and phone and wallet to merge into one blob. This would cause my "oh s$%t I lost X" anxiety to go from 3 points, to 1 point.
- IgorPartola 13y agoWould you then hand your cards/keys/phone blob to a waiter at at a restaurant when you pay for your meal?
- scotth 13y ago13% of Americans have 10 or more credit cards? Wow, that sounds serious. They should probably pass on the Protean Echo purchase, and figure out how to manage their money better.
- tertius 13y agoMore credit lines give you a higher credit score. Yes it has relatively low impact, but the more lines you have, the better it is for your credit score. That's just the system.
- scotth 13y agoI only have one. My credit is excellent. I've never had a problem with anything. I'm not saying you're wrong, but clearly it isn't the only way.
- tertius 13y agoLike I said, it's a low impact factor, but it still is. And I'm not saying this is "my experience" it's just one of the factors. Also credit lines could be anything from retail credit, mortgage, car loan etc. All apply. Compared to paying every month, utilization, past default etc. it's a low factor, but it still is.
- democracy 13y agoNot really. Every request from a credit provider is a hard request negatively impacting your score in most formulas. Providers not checking your score do not affect it anyways (improving it or making it worse). Plus it is harder to manage debt, adding risk of defaults and fraud operations.
- tertius 13y agoI would agree that it is harder to manage debt. I suggest not having any debt in that case. And yes, hard requests negatively impact your score more than say having 10 lines of credit would positively impact your score. Hard requests do not last as long as credit lines though. Does this (low impact) factor suggest that you request to get a new card every month? No. I think the top range (for credit lines) is 15-22. Going above that would not affect your score any more positively. I think it's ridiculous but that's what it's become. The more you borrow (or technically "can borrow") the more lines you'll be able to get.
- avalaunch 13y agoI like that this works with loyalty cards too. Unfortunately my early beta card got destroyed after the fifth or sixth time I took it to the Pizza Hut buffet and had them punch it.
- beachminter 13y agothe CEO is pretty legit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiago_David_Olson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiago_David_Olson
- jchung 13y agoIs this really a problem? Too many credit cards make your wallet uncomfortably large? Let's get back to solving problems that matter. I can't believe we have three companies on the front page today reducing the number of credit cards in your wallet.
- mmastrac 13y agoActually, I might have this problem. I don't use a lot of credit, but I carry around a primary CC, a backup CC (that is never used unless the primary CC is stolen), a corporate CC, four debit cards for various accounts, and a myriad of other things. My kingdom for a solution that gets me down to one card.
- thomaspaine 13y agoWhy do you need to carry around four debit cards and a backup credit card? I'm not saying this works for everyone but my wallet contains $20, a driver's license, and a credit card. If I'm going to be somewhere where I might need a business CC or debit card then they're temporarily added. Otherwise I store all my CC info in 1password anyway which I can access on my phone.
- Ntrails 13y agoI carry a debit card, a credit card, and a joint account card. My problem is the 15 loyalty cards I'd need to carry to get my free mocha/chicken/subway/points/etc/etc, give me an amalgamation of that shit and I'll love you for ever.
- Semaphor 13y agoOne example of a mobile app solution is [1], a low-tech solution is [2]. [1]: http://www.keyringapp.com/ http://www.keyringapp.com/ [2]: http://lifehacker.com/5719587/make-your-own-consolidated-loyalty-card-on-your-computer http://lifehacker.com/5719587/make-your-own-consolidated-loy...
- IgorPartola 13y ago
- gmjoe 13y agoI'm sure there are going to be plenty of places which refuse to accept anything but an actual credit or debit card. I mean, there's no signature to check. What do you do when 10% or more of the places you go refuse to take this? Heck, a lot of places used to require the cashier to type in the last 4 digits of the card visually, to make sure the physical card matched the stripe. I haven't seen that in a while, but that would also be impossible with this. Are the credit-card companies on board with this, instructing retailers to accept these?
- X-Istence 13y agoBest Buy still requires the physical card to type in the first four numbers ...
- dingaling 13y agoFirst four? That's two-thirds of the Bank Identification Number ( BIN ), offers no security at all. After all the bank's logo is plastered over the card and reverse BIN lookup is easy. What an odd thing to capture.
- X-Istence 13y agoI might be mistaken, but they are required to type in 4 numbers, last time I asked the clerk he said it was the first 4 numbers...
- NKCSS 13y agoI declare today to be "Merge All Your Cards Into One" day.