5 ms·

> Renault wants to 'sell' a product to a consumer that he will never truly own. So exactly like when you purchase an ebook from Amazon, a game from Steam, or d

by rplnt 13y ago

> Renault wants to 'sell' a product to a consumer that he will never truly own. So exactly like when you purchase an ebook from Amazon, a game from Steam, or dozens other services where you think you own something but in reality you don't. I'm not saying it's good, but why do people get angry when it's more "real"? And at the same time are OK with it when it's something virtual?

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
mjolk 13y ago
>So exactly like when you purchase an ebook from Amazon, a game from Steam, No, not like that. And definitely not "exactly like" that. Bridging the tangibility gap makes this into a different manner.
ensignavenger 13y ago
I think a lot of it has to do with expectations. Personally, I don't buy DRM'd ebooks from Amazon, unless I happen to get them at a tremendous discount and consider it a throwaway item. (I think I have purchased 1 DRM'd ebook for my Kindle in the 3 years I have had it). I also only purchase steam games in a similar way- when highly discounted- mostly through the Humble Bundle deals. This is because I know what to expect, and I make other choices.
Dylan16807 13y ago
Amazon, Steam, etc. are not in fact capable of taking away the data I bought, no matter what they do with their servers. Also I'm optimistic law will catch up and fix the first sale doctrine eventually, so that they won't even try to take away the data.
- pmh 13y ago
  > Amazon, Steam, etc. are not in fact capable of taking away the data I bought, no matter what they do with their servers. I'm not sure what you mean by this, could you elaborate? As of now, if e.g. your Steam account is suspended or the Steam servers shut down, you will no longer be able to play any of the games on that account (offline mode and DRM circumvention notwithstanding). You may have access to a subset of the data on your disk (the games you previously downloaded), but they're still wrapped in DRM. As an aside, Steam is also capable of removing games from your account, which they do e.g. in the case of a chargeback.
  - Dylan16807 13y ago
    > I'm not sure what you mean by this I meant circumvention. I paid for it, they're not taking it back.
  - rplnt 13y ago
    Most of the games are in fact not wrapped in Steam DRM. Just by the way, as playing them is equal to pirating anyways. If your service is suspended you "can't" play them (even though you can).
    - pmh 13y ago
      This is getting slightly off-topic, but it's only a minority[1] of games that lack the Steam DRM wrapper and they're primarily indie titles. Nearly all (if not all) AA/AAA titles on Steam require Steam to be running. [1] http://www.gog.com/forum/general/list_of_drmfree_games_on_steam/page1 http://www.gog.com/forum/general/list_of_drmfree_games_on_st...
- lesterbuck 13y ago
  Since Amazon has remote deleted Kindle books in the past, your statement is clearly incorrect. They have since "promised" not to do it again. The capability remains. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18ama...
  - Dylan16807 13y ago
    And I'll have it back in under an hour. Unlike this battery system where I'm probably unable to fix it.
alextingle 13y ago
Well, I get angry about those things too. There's no way I'll "buy" a game from Steam for example. A recent court case in Germany started to edge these disingenuous business practices into illegality. Hopefully things will continue to move in the right direction.
falcolas 13y ago
There are three obvious differences between this and software DRM. One is that this isn't a piece of non-critical software. You can live with your copy of 1989 being deleted from your kindle; something not so easy with a car. Two is that a temporary loss of permissions to play a video game won't result in potentially permanent damage to that software; letting a modern battery run dry by refusing to charge it could. Three, you're not saddled with a $15,000 plus hunk of metal, plastic, and rubber if your rights to use the software are revoked.

by rplnt 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

mjolk 13y ago

>So exactly like when you purchase an ebook from Amazon, a game from Steam, No, not like that. And definitely not "exactly like" that. Bridging the tangibility gap makes this into a different manner.

ensignavenger 13y ago

I think a lot of it has to do with expectations. Personally, I don't buy DRM'd ebooks from Amazon, unless I happen to get them at a tremendous discount and consider it a throwaway item. (I think I have purchased 1 DRM'd ebook for my Kindle in the 3 years I have had it). I also only purchase steam games in a similar way- when highly discounted- mostly through the Humble Bundle deals. This is because I know what to expect, and I make other choices.

Dylan16807 13y ago

Amazon, Steam, etc. are not in fact capable of taking away the data I bought, no matter what they do with their servers. Also I'm optimistic law will catch up and fix the first sale doctrine eventually, so that they won't even try to take away the data.

pmh 13y ago
> Amazon, Steam, etc. are not in fact capable of taking away the data I bought, no matter what they do with their servers. I'm not sure what you mean by this, could you elaborate? As of now, if e.g. your Steam account is suspended or the Steam servers shut down, you will no longer be able to play any of the games on that account (offline mode and DRM circumvention notwithstanding). You may have access to a subset of the data on your disk (the games you previously downloaded), but they're still wrapped in DRM. As an aside, Steam is also capable of removing games from your account, which they do e.g. in the case of a chargeback.
- Dylan16807 13y ago
  > I'm not sure what you mean by this I meant circumvention. I paid for it, they're not taking it back.
- rplnt 13y ago
  Most of the games are in fact not wrapped in Steam DRM. Just by the way, as playing them is equal to pirating anyways. If your service is suspended you "can't" play them (even though you can).
  - pmh 13y ago
    This is getting slightly off-topic, but it's only a minority[1] of games that lack the Steam DRM wrapper and they're primarily indie titles. Nearly all (if not all) AA/AAA titles on Steam require Steam to be running. [1] http://www.gog.com/forum/general/list_of_drmfree_games_on_steam/page1 http://www.gog.com/forum/general/list_of_drmfree_games_on_st...
lesterbuck 13y ago
Since Amazon has remote deleted Kindle books in the past, your statement is clearly incorrect. They have since "promised" not to do it again. The capability remains. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18ama...
- Dylan16807 13y ago
  And I'll have it back in under an hour. Unlike this battery system where I'm probably unable to fix it.

alextingle 13y ago

Well, I get angry about those things too. There's no way I'll "buy" a game from Steam for example. A recent court case in Germany started to edge these disingenuous business practices into illegality. Hopefully things will continue to move in the right direction.

falcolas 13y ago

There are three obvious differences between this and software DRM. One is that this isn't a piece of non-critical software. You can live with your copy of 1989 being deleted from your kindle; something not so easy with a car. Two is that a temporary loss of permissions to play a video game won't result in potentially permanent damage to that software; letting a modern battery run dry by refusing to charge it could. Three, you're not saddled with a $15,000 plus hunk of metal, plastic, and rubber if your rights to use the software are revoked.