7 ms·

Its funny because we already live in this dystopia and you simply don't notice it because the plastic food we eat "looks real" and "tastes good". What is the di

Its funny because we already live in this dystopia and you simply don't notice it because the plastic food we eat "looks real" and "tastes good". What is the difference between the completely artificial hamburger people get at McDonalds and Soylent? The fact that its basically "molded" to look like the real food we used to eat? The reality is that we long ago crossed the line into having a society that mostly eats absolutely garbage and artificial food. This is not some future prospect, it is today, and we regularly see (and ignore) the disastrous medical results. This is of course perpetuated by a government that pushes a purely political nutritional agenda (let's tell everyone carbohydrates are the most important staple to eat and let's put corn and sugar in everything for economic reasons and let's also hope no one notices that fiber has mysteriously disappeared from our diets). At least Soylent is trying to harness this machine for good. A world where "the cogs" at least receive proper nutrition would be a step up from today's illusion of choice.

derleth 13y ago
> the completely artificial hamburger people get at McDonalds Define 'completely artificial' here. It's meat, it's bread, it's vegetables and condiments.
- ramy_d 13y ago
  you are very generous with what you call meat, bread, and vegetables.
  - crygin 13y ago
    Can you clarify the definitions of those terms that you'd prefer to use, which exclude the products on a McDonald's hamburger?
- tolmasky 13y ago
  There's a difference between "meat", and grain-fed, antibiotic treated cow meat. And last time I made bread, it didn't magically develop high fructose corn syrup or ammonium chloride, and yet, somehow it appears in the "bread" of a McDonalds hamburger. It goes without saying that the condiments are more or less by definition artificial processed foods. And let's not even get into the amount of sodium in this thing. You'll also notice there's basically no fiber in this thing (that's why it lasts so long). Define "completely artificial"? At least as artificial as Soylent.
  - refurb 13y ago
    I can't tell if this is just hyperbole or if you actually believe what you're saying.
    - atom-morgan 13y ago
      Is anything that he said false? If so, please tell us.
    - tolmasky 13y ago
      Proposing counter arguments is considered to be an effective way of reconciling two differing beliefs, as opposed to simply questioning my sincerity. I would be more than happy to know the factual inaccuracies I have stated, and to change my position accordingly.
      - refurb 13y ago
        OK, I'll be less snarky with this reply... >There's a difference between "meat", and grain-fed, antibiotic treated cow meat. The meat used in McDonald's hamburgers is the same meat you would buy in the grocery store. Is it a super high quality cut? Of course not, it's likely made from cheap cuts of meat, but that's what you do when you're grinding it up for a burger. >And last time I made bread, it didn't magically develop high fructose corn syrup or ammonium chloride, and yet, somehow it appears in the "bread" of a McDonalds hamburger. Fine with the HFCS, but ammonium chloride is a common baking ingredient in baking. It's used as a nutrient for yeast and it's also used in medicine to acidify your urine. >It goes without saying that the condiments are more or less by definition artificial processed foods. And let's not even get into the amount of sodium in this thing. Tomato sauce is made from tomatoes, a vegetable. Sure it has a lot of salt and sometimes HFCS in it, but it's not "artificial". Do you consider homemade dill pickles to be "artificial" because of them amount of salt in them? >You'll also notice there's basically no fiber in this thing (that's why it lasts so long). The fiber content of something has nothing to do with why food lasts so long, it's the moisture content. Stuff that has no moisture will not support bacterial growth. If you take wheat and make hardtack with it, it won't rot at all, but that's natural isn't it?
timr 13y ago
Ah yes...the "McDonald's is bad, so let's feed people glop instead" argument. How about this: let's help people get access to, appreciate, and learn how to prepare "real" food, instead of jumping to the lowest common denominator. That's what I'd call "disruption".
- Afforess 13y ago
  Except the "glop", as you put it, is nutritionally healthy and McDonalds is not.
  - JacksonGariety 13y ago
    I will agree with this once I see a study showing consuming nothing but soylent has no effect on a person's happiness or mental well-being. Dehumanization is worse than diabetes.
    - pbreit 13y ago
      The reports so far are that it definitely has an impact on happiness and mental well-being: a positive one.
      - ceejayoz 13y ago
        The reports are mostly involved parties and early adopter types. Not only is there a lot of potential bias involved, but a proper study has all sorts of important elements - double-blindness, valid controls, ethics boards, etc.
        JacksonGariety 13y ago
        It may have a positive impact on people who eat McDonalds every day, but what about people who eat real food?
        aianus 13y ago
        I don't think it's possible to do a double-blind study on Soylent. I guess you could blend up normal food and water it down to the same consistency but it would still taste like food so I don't think it would fool anyone.
freyrs3 13y ago
> let's tell everyone carbohydrates are the most important staple to eat and let's put corn and sugar in everything Seems to be conflating two parties here. The USDA guidelines are written by government nutritionists and there are sound scientific reasons for recommending the base of any diet be grains. Though being a free country, whether or not the private sector decides to put corn syrup in everything is their own prerogative and unrelated to government guidelines. > At least Soylent is trying to harness this machine for good. Soylent is a private company, not an aid organization. Barring them irresponsibly marketing their product as a "total food replacement" I wouldn't call what they are doing good or bad.
- spinlock 13y ago
  Humans have only eaten grains for the last 10,000 years or so. For the millions of years before that, we evolved on a diet that didn't include grain. Of courses those assertions don't prove anything but they do make me question the wisdom of basing the human diet on grain.
  - freyrs3 13y ago
    Yes, and I dare say this whole civilization thing is working out pretty well as a result of our switch to grains.
    - VLM 13y ago
      Note that civilization can work out pretty well for itself even if its highly non-optimal for the individuals inside it. I'm certain that two people living two sickly lives and dying at 40 of diabetes is vastly economically superior in terms of revenue over one dude living a healthy 80 years. Grains not good for anything except acting as an "energy drink" to fatten up livestock animals. Grains are good food for our good food, at most. Since all the science points toward grains being bad for humans, present me with any scientific evidence our bodies evolved to eat grains. We don't chew our cud like cows, we have a carnivorous physique and body type... There is an evolutionary aspect to it that nothing fattens up then kills americans like grain consumption; you guys go right on gulping that stuff down; eventually you'll go extinct because of it, then the rest of us won't have to listen to sick people claiming a grain based diet is healthy.
DanBC 13y ago
> What is the difference between the completely artificial hamburger people get at McDonalds and Soylent? No one tells you that you can live on McDonald's alone.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  Exactly. Not even McDonald's would suggest that. They are far more risk-adverse than the Soylent people are.
- nsxwolf 13y ago
  Sure you can. Dan Gorske has lived on almost nothing but Big Macs since 1972. At age 59, he is apparently still in good health. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Gorske http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Gorske
nsxwolf 13y ago
I'm not following. In what way is a McDonalds hamburger artificial? It's bread. It's meat. Even if there are mechanically separated parts of the meat, they're still meat. Even if it's as artificial as you say, isn't food that "looks real" and "tastes good" better than food that "looks like deplorable shit" and "tastes like deplorable shit" and is unapologetically named after something horrible from a 1970s dystopian sci fi movie?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- JohnTHaller 13y ago
  McDonalds only recently (last year) stopped using 'pink slime' in their burgers: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/mcdonald-confirms-no-longer-using-pink-slime-chemicals-171209662.html http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/mcdonald-confirms-no-lo...
  - nsxwolf 13y ago
    "Pink slime" is meat. If it had been invented by a molecular gastronomist, we'd be heralding it as an exciting, innovative gourmet food. But the media-invented pejorative nickname "sounds gross", therefore that is scientific proof that it's not "real food" and will kill you.
    - JohnTHaller 13y ago
      When people think of 'hamburger', they think of ground beef. Just ground beef. And maybe some spices. They don't think of the chemical process involved in factory processing the normally inedible bits of a cow into a slimy pink goop (see where the name came from?) and then mixing that in with their ground beef at a specific percentage to avoid getting into trouble.
- quantumpotato_ 13y ago
  Read this: http://www.amazon.com/Fast-Food-Nation-Dark-All-American/dp/0547750331 http://www.amazon.com/Fast-Food-Nation-Dark-All-American/dp/... and tell me if you want to eat at McDonald's again.
nakedrobot2 13y ago
You go ahead and eat your fake food. I'll continue working very hard but still have time for my family, and I also eat real food. Heck, I can cook a whole pizza from scratch in 30 minutes, dough included. Now that's a hack that's centuries old I'm guessing. No, I'm not putting it on Kickstarter :-)
- tolmasky 13y ago
  As I stated in another comment, I am also a "real food" advocate. Nowhere have I stated that I think we should replace everyones meals with soylent. I simply made the assertion (which I continue to believe is correct), that doing so would probably be a net positive for many people in this country. In other words, the main thing I'm wanting to argue is that if you are "afraid" of soylent's potential effects, then you should already be equally afraid given this country's current average diet.
- ebiester 13y ago
  Probably not, considering when quick rise yeast came on the market and the necessity of electric stoves for that kind of speed. In most places, you would have a central stove and going to and from would take ten minutes at the least. ;)
smsm42 13y ago
Why would I eat a rubber meat on rubber bread in McD if I can get real meat with real veggies next door? Yes, I'd probably have to spend whole whopping $10 or so on such a meal. But given that it takes only 75 minutes of work even on minimum wage to earn such meal, I don't think it's inaccessible.

derleth 13y ago

> the completely artificial hamburger people get at McDonalds Define 'completely artificial' here. It's meat, it's bread, it's vegetables and condiments.

ramy_d 13y ago
you are very generous with what you call meat, bread, and vegetables.
- crygin 13y ago
  Can you clarify the definitions of those terms that you'd prefer to use, which exclude the products on a McDonald's hamburger?
tolmasky 13y ago
There's a difference between "meat", and grain-fed, antibiotic treated cow meat. And last time I made bread, it didn't magically develop high fructose corn syrup or ammonium chloride, and yet, somehow it appears in the "bread" of a McDonalds hamburger. It goes without saying that the condiments are more or less by definition artificial processed foods. And let's not even get into the amount of sodium in this thing. You'll also notice there's basically no fiber in this thing (that's why it lasts so long). Define "completely artificial"? At least as artificial as Soylent.
- refurb 13y ago
  I can't tell if this is just hyperbole or if you actually believe what you're saying.
  - atom-morgan 13y ago
    Is anything that he said false? If so, please tell us.
  - tolmasky 13y ago
    Proposing counter arguments is considered to be an effective way of reconciling two differing beliefs, as opposed to simply questioning my sincerity. I would be more than happy to know the factual inaccuracies I have stated, and to change my position accordingly.
    - refurb 13y ago
      OK, I'll be less snarky with this reply... >There's a difference between "meat", and grain-fed, antibiotic treated cow meat. The meat used in McDonald's hamburgers is the same meat you would buy in the grocery store. Is it a super high quality cut? Of course not, it's likely made from cheap cuts of meat, but that's what you do when you're grinding it up for a burger. >And last time I made bread, it didn't magically develop high fructose corn syrup or ammonium chloride, and yet, somehow it appears in the "bread" of a McDonalds hamburger. Fine with the HFCS, but ammonium chloride is a common baking ingredient in baking. It's used as a nutrient for yeast and it's also used in medicine to acidify your urine. >It goes without saying that the condiments are more or less by definition artificial processed foods. And let's not even get into the amount of sodium in this thing. Tomato sauce is made from tomatoes, a vegetable. Sure it has a lot of salt and sometimes HFCS in it, but it's not "artificial". Do you consider homemade dill pickles to be "artificial" because of them amount of salt in them? >You'll also notice there's basically no fiber in this thing (that's why it lasts so long). The fiber content of something has nothing to do with why food lasts so long, it's the moisture content. Stuff that has no moisture will not support bacterial growth. If you take wheat and make hardtack with it, it won't rot at all, but that's natural isn't it?

timr 13y ago

Ah yes...the "McDonald's is bad, so let's feed people glop instead" argument. How about this: let's help people get access to, appreciate, and learn how to prepare "real" food, instead of jumping to the lowest common denominator. That's what I'd call "disruption".

Afforess 13y ago
Except the "glop", as you put it, is nutritionally healthy and McDonalds is not.
- JacksonGariety 13y ago
  I will agree with this once I see a study showing consuming nothing but soylent has no effect on a person's happiness or mental well-being. Dehumanization is worse than diabetes.
  - pbreit 13y ago
    The reports so far are that it definitely has an impact on happiness and mental well-being: a positive one.
    - ceejayoz 13y ago
      The reports are mostly involved parties and early adopter types. Not only is there a lot of potential bias involved, but a proper study has all sorts of important elements - double-blindness, valid controls, ethics boards, etc.
      - JacksonGariety 13y ago
        It may have a positive impact on people who eat McDonalds every day, but what about people who eat real food?
      - aianus 13y ago
        I don't think it's possible to do a double-blind study on Soylent. I guess you could blend up normal food and water it down to the same consistency but it would still taste like food so I don't think it would fool anyone.

freyrs3 13y ago

> let's tell everyone carbohydrates are the most important staple to eat and let's put corn and sugar in everything Seems to be conflating two parties here. The USDA guidelines are written by government nutritionists and there are sound scientific reasons for recommending the base of any diet be grains. Though being a free country, whether or not the private sector decides to put corn syrup in everything is their own prerogative and unrelated to government guidelines. > At least Soylent is trying to harness this machine for good. Soylent is a private company, not an aid organization. Barring them irresponsibly marketing their product as a "total food replacement" I wouldn't call what they are doing good or bad.

spinlock 13y ago
Humans have only eaten grains for the last 10,000 years or so. For the millions of years before that, we evolved on a diet that didn't include grain. Of courses those assertions don't prove anything but they do make me question the wisdom of basing the human diet on grain.
- freyrs3 13y ago
  Yes, and I dare say this whole civilization thing is working out pretty well as a result of our switch to grains.
  - VLM 13y ago
    Note that civilization can work out pretty well for itself even if its highly non-optimal for the individuals inside it. I'm certain that two people living two sickly lives and dying at 40 of diabetes is vastly economically superior in terms of revenue over one dude living a healthy 80 years. Grains not good for anything except acting as an "energy drink" to fatten up livestock animals. Grains are good food for our good food, at most. Since all the science points toward grains being bad for humans, present me with any scientific evidence our bodies evolved to eat grains. We don't chew our cud like cows, we have a carnivorous physique and body type... There is an evolutionary aspect to it that nothing fattens up then kills americans like grain consumption; you guys go right on gulping that stuff down; eventually you'll go extinct because of it, then the rest of us won't have to listen to sick people claiming a grain based diet is healthy.

DanBC 13y ago

> What is the difference between the completely artificial hamburger people get at McDonalds and Soylent? No one tells you that you can live on McDonald's alone.

jlgreco 13y ago
Exactly. Not even McDonald's would suggest that. They are far more risk-adverse than the Soylent people are.
nsxwolf 13y ago
Sure you can. Dan Gorske has lived on almost nothing but Big Macs since 1972. At age 59, he is apparently still in good health. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Gorske http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Gorske

nsxwolf 13y ago

I'm not following. In what way is a McDonalds hamburger artificial? It's bread. It's meat. Even if there are mechanically separated parts of the meat, they're still meat. Even if it's as artificial as you say, isn't food that "looks real" and "tastes good" better than food that "looks like deplorable shit" and "tastes like deplorable shit" and is unapologetically named after something horrible from a 1970s dystopian sci fi movie?

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
JohnTHaller 13y ago
McDonalds only recently (last year) stopped using 'pink slime' in their burgers: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/mcdonald-confirms-no-longer-using-pink-slime-chemicals-171209662.html http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/mcdonald-confirms-no-lo...
- nsxwolf 13y ago
  "Pink slime" is meat. If it had been invented by a molecular gastronomist, we'd be heralding it as an exciting, innovative gourmet food. But the media-invented pejorative nickname "sounds gross", therefore that is scientific proof that it's not "real food" and will kill you.
  - JohnTHaller 13y ago
    When people think of 'hamburger', they think of ground beef. Just ground beef. And maybe some spices. They don't think of the chemical process involved in factory processing the normally inedible bits of a cow into a slimy pink goop (see where the name came from?) and then mixing that in with their ground beef at a specific percentage to avoid getting into trouble.
quantumpotato_ 13y ago
Read this: http://www.amazon.com/Fast-Food-Nation-Dark-All-American/dp/0547750331 http://www.amazon.com/Fast-Food-Nation-Dark-All-American/dp/... and tell me if you want to eat at McDonald's again.

nakedrobot2 13y ago

You go ahead and eat your fake food. I'll continue working very hard but still have time for my family, and I also eat real food. Heck, I can cook a whole pizza from scratch in 30 minutes, dough included. Now that's a hack that's centuries old I'm guessing. No, I'm not putting it on Kickstarter :-)

tolmasky 13y ago
As I stated in another comment, I am also a "real food" advocate. Nowhere have I stated that I think we should replace everyones meals with soylent. I simply made the assertion (which I continue to believe is correct), that doing so would probably be a net positive for many people in this country. In other words, the main thing I'm wanting to argue is that if you are "afraid" of soylent's potential effects, then you should already be equally afraid given this country's current average diet.
ebiester 13y ago
Probably not, considering when quick rise yeast came on the market and the necessity of electric stoves for that kind of speed. In most places, you would have a central stove and going to and from would take ten minutes at the least. ;)

smsm42 13y ago

Why would I eat a rubber meat on rubber bread in McD if I can get real meat with real veggies next door? Yes, I'd probably have to spend whole whopping $10 or so on such a meal. But given that it takes only 75 minutes of work even on minimum wage to earn such meal, I don't think it's inaccessible.