5 ms·

Apple Finds Surprising Growth Market in Japan

42 points by kposehn 13y ago

IBM 13y ago
I think we'll see the same story in the US after this quarter. Apple was already making gains in market share in the quarter prior to new iPhones, it will be a blowout this quarter in comparison. http://www.comscore.com/Insights/Press_Releases/2013/10/comScore_Reports_August_2013_US_Smartphone_Subscriber_Market_Share http://www.comscore.com/Insights/Press_Releases/2013/10/comS... http://www.comscore.com/Insights/Press_Releases/2013/9/comScore_Reports_July_2013_U.S._Smartphone_Subscriber_Market_Share http://www.comscore.com/Insights/Press_Releases/2013/9/comSc...
victorology 13y ago
Does anyone know what other markets iOS has a large (30%+) market share? It seems the U.S. and Japan are two of them.
- cclogg 13y ago
  I'm guessing Canada (my country) would be one of them. But our population is roughly 10% that of the US's.
- mchaver 13y ago
  UK is about 30%, Australia around 28%, China around 20%. US, Japan, China, UK and Australia were topping iOS App store Revenue in Q3 2013. http://blog.appannie.com/app-annie-index-market-q3-2013/ http://blog.appannie.com/app-annie-index-market-q3-2013/
  - victorology 13y ago
    Thank you for the link! Very useful.
patio11 13y ago
"World's second largest economy discovered to contain money" is at least better than "Japan will never use the iPhone because they're inscrutable nationalists." (Take note, anyone who thinks "Samsung is Korean. Have you heard about Japan and Korea?" is sage commentary.) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=497069 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=497069
- rurounijones 13y ago
  Addendum to your statement "Worlds second largest economy with a super fashion (younger)/status (older) obsessed population buys from company known to be high-end and fashionable."
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    Not to mention Japanese handsets suck when it comes to software, and Android is too Korean/Chinese.
    - rurounijones 13y ago
      Japanese handsets' software does indeed suck however Android dominates the Smartphone market (As per above article) and Samsung has good share of android sales[1] so I think the "anti-korean" thing is being blown out of proportion. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6716190 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6716190
  - threeseed 13y ago
    Don't forget that Apple has had a pretty stunning retail store in Ginza for nearly a decade now alongside LV, Prada, Chanel etc. http://www.apple.com/jp/retail/ginza/ http://www.apple.com/jp/retail/ginza/
    - mbesto 13y ago
      And now have Angela Ahrendts (former Burberry CEO) at the helm of retail. Very smart move.
yeukhon 13y ago
I am fascinated by this news. I watch a lot of Japanese shows (drama, movies or music video), and it used to be a common thing to see the Japanese using flip phone like this one [1] or non-western branded computers [2]. Only very recently I see android phones. Actually I met this IBM fellow from Japan and as a visually impaired user she was using an iPhone. [1]: https://typhoon-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/image_attachment/image_attachment/731/cellphonenovels.jpg https://typhoon-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/image_at... [3]: http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee463/withsubsplease/screencaps/dramas/Spring%20Dramas/ItsukaHinoAtaruBashode-01848x480F8A5EC7222-35-32_zpsfd1c30a6.jpg http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee463/withsubsplease/scr...
- yeukhon 13y ago
  and this is still true even in the hottest drama naoki nakazawa
danso 13y ago
Maybe it's no-duh that Apple would find a growth market in Japan, but just because its economy is huge doesn't mean that it's inclined to be a "growth" market for Apple or any other American tech. And this is basically a non-sequitur, but this line of thinking reminded me of this article about why fax machines are still big in Japan http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/world/asia/in-japan-the-fax-machine-is-anything-but-a-relic.html http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/world/asia/in-japan-the-fa...
hkmurakami 13y ago
iPhones becoming available from DoCoMo is huge. They are the carrier with the best signal quality, hands down. You get reception in the middle of remote mountains with DoCoMo. It's akin to when Verizon started offering the iPhone, but multiplied by 5x. Also >One unique factor in Japan is the relatively small presence of Samsung Electronics Co. 005930.SE +2.10% , the world's largest smartphone maker. Samsung ranks fourth in Japan behind Apple, Sony and Sharp Corp., in part because of a Japanese consumer bias that works against many Korean brands. This can't be understated imo. I have friends in Japan who flat out refuse to buy Samsung/LG monitors and other products.
- AndrewKemendo 13y ago
  Docomo is also widely used in Oceania and other pacific island nations
- snogglethorpe 13y ago
  > This can't be understated That's a bit overstated... :] Japan's phone manufacturers concentrate on the Japanese domestic market, so there's a great deal more choice in high-quality phones in Japan than in most other countries. Samsung is not "special" like Apple is, in that their products aren't higher-quality / more functional / better designed than the (mostly Japanese) competition, so there's no real reason why Samsung should be ahead of other companies. They may have some price advantage, but price is generally less important in Japan than it is in other countries, and is often rather obscured in phone contracts. Samsung coming in 4th is actually a vote of confidence. To the degree there's a bias in Japan against non-Japanese products, I think it's in most cases less a case of xenophobia, and more simply a higher degree of trust in Japanese products. This isn't entirely illogical either, as Japan does have a very good record of building high-quality products. Japanese can be very, very, picky, about both quality and style. [This is one reason Apple does very well in Japan.]
  - moonfern 13y ago
    Indeed, but I can't help it: Once upon a time Japan had a very good record of building low-quality products. Iphones are built in China.
preemrust 13y ago
Large Japanese cities have busy Apple stores too. Besides one to one consultation, they run regular lectures on iPhone and iPad productivity. I think people feel happy being Apple customers. My wife is Japanese and she like Apple's FaceTime more than the Google equivalent because it does not force her to join a social network. Many Japanese are not too keen on creating accounts on networks. I travel a fair bit in Asia and I see slivers of same trend. As people in India, China and Indonesia etc. get busier they will move towards products that are perceived to be simpler and less distracting.
- akg_67 13y ago
  Actually, during recent visit just a few weeks ago, I was surprised to find Apple Store in Sendai and it was busy (in Tokyo, I wouldn't be that surprised me). The main difference with phones I noticed between the visit this time and last year was the popularity of touch phones versus flip phones. A year ago most phones in subways, I noticed, were flip phones. This year not so much. Definitely lot of iPhones and Sony xperia.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
e2e4 13y ago
The example in the article mentioned a user getting his first smart phone, i.e. switching from a "feature phone". Personally, I've experienced that many people that are getting a 2nd, 3rd smartphone are switching from iphone to android based phones (mostly by Japanese manufacturers). Technical functionality-wise iphone lags far behind: no free digital tv (1seg), no touch-less payment (Felica: could be used as a train ticket, wallet). e.g.: http://www.nttdocomo.co.jp/product/smart_phone/so02f/index.html http://www.nttdocomo.co.jp/product/smart_phone/so02f/index.h...
- Xixi 13y ago
  It's hard to draw any conclusion from personal anecdote: where I work it's the opposite, all my coworkers who had Android smartphones (Samsung and Sony) are switching to iPhone 5S. Note that none of them is technically savy at all: they can barely use a computer, things like Felica are in the realm of science-fiction for them. They just want a smartphone with a decent camera and Line. By the way that horribly tacky "gold" iThingy is a killer, everybody wants it (Osaka, probably different in other cities).
  - MilkyCow 13y ago
    your co-workers are cool. I mean I'm not an APPLE fanboy but when I see a new iPhones/iPADs/iPods and iOS apps they are just flat-out COOL! Enough said.
  - e2e4 13y ago
    In Tokyo; quite a few people use smartphones's NFC FeliCa (SUICA) as their train commuting passes (along with the connected payment option): http://www.jreast.co.jp/mobilesuica/whats/models.html http://www.jreast.co.jp/mobilesuica/whats/models.html I guess for JR West it might be different. +1 for pointing out the success of gold iphone in Osaka agree with regards to making conclusions with regards to personal anecdotes (hence the disclaimer); interesting to hear that it is different in your area.
MilkyCow 13y ago
if (COOL = Japan && COOL = Apple) { Japan = Apple; }
tumes 13y ago
Totally anecdotal and only tangentially related, but I've been to Tokyo three times since 2009 and the change in availability of American craft beer as well as Japanese microbrews was honestly staggering. As a Coloradan, it was almost comical to see so much specialty beer from home so far away. Soon after returning from my most recent trip, I happened to sit next to an employee of Left Hand Brewing (Probably the most weirdly ubiquitous Colorado beer I saw there that trip) during lunch, and it turns out some beverage exporter pays the freight on the kegs to and from Tokyo just to bring Left Hand overseas. I have to imagine this marks some sort of change in tastes and economics, at least in the big city.
bni 13y ago
Always in these kind of articles they have to write that people choosing Apple are drones that only buy couse of the high status of the Apple brand. It can never be that iPhones actually work consistently and have software that is not "mixed up" by carriers and Android-vendors. Could it be that the iPhone is a good product that makes people choose it? Its offensive.
37prime 13y ago
"Surprising"? Incarnations of iPhone had been the top selling phone in Japan for quite some time. Anyone remember the headline from Wired "Why the Japanese Hate the iPhone" (http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/02/why-the-iphone/ http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/02/why-the-iphone/) Media bias goes both ways.
hclee 13y ago
It is not just because of service plan resembling US market but Japanese's favor to Western stuffs. Japanese have been particularly obsessed with European luxury goods (accessories to bags), western cultures, musics, goods and whatever the fancy to them. iPhone of course.
exo_duz 13y ago
I still remember when the iPhone was first available in Japan. They had to change a lot just to accommodate the functions. For example Japan does not use SMS. Only Softbank uses SMS which is why they are the most popular for foreigners who try to contact overseas. Even then each SMS overseas costs an average of 105yen (US$1) each. Or with AU/KDDI which only allows SMS to same network phones. Japan uses mobile email which is still widely used and Softbank as a result had to modify iPhone standard systems to allow this. Saying this my point is that Japan's problem lies with the fact that their technology is in it's own universe and not available outside. Which is a good thing and a bad thing. For example, TVs in Japan cannot be used overseas, their phone systems use WCDMA which cannot be used overseas. When Japan was the centre of the technology world this was good because the world had to try to follow them. Now that they aren't they have to be able to adapt so that their technology legacy will survive the future changes from overseas. Here's hoping that the turn in people's thinking might help Japan get out of their technology downslide.
- w1ntermute 13y ago
  > Japan's problem lies with the fact that their technology is in it's own universe and not available outside. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gal%C3%A1pagos_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gal%C3%A1pagos_syndrome
  - exo_duz 13y ago
    So true and so sad. From the great innovator to the follower. I also realised that the people are quite inflexible and unwilling to change. The following article explains it so well. Although it's about design/web but it gives you an insight to how Japanese think. http://randomwire.com/why-japanese-web-design-is-so-different/ http://randomwire.com/why-japanese-web-design-is-so-differen...
WoodenChair 13y ago
It's not that surprising. Japan has always been an Apple stronghold... Going way back into the pre-iMac days

42 points by kposehn 13y ago

IBM 13y ago

I think we'll see the same story in the US after this quarter. Apple was already making gains in market share in the quarter prior to new iPhones, it will be a blowout this quarter in comparison. http://www.comscore.com/Insights/Press_Releases/2013/10/comScore_Reports_August_2013_US_Smartphone_Subscriber_Market_Share http://www.comscore.com/Insights/Press_Releases/2013/10/comS... http://www.comscore.com/Insights/Press_Releases/2013/9/comScore_Reports_July_2013_U.S._Smartphone_Subscriber_Market_Share http://www.comscore.com/Insights/Press_Releases/2013/9/comSc...

victorology 13y ago

Does anyone know what other markets iOS has a large (30%+) market share? It seems the U.S. and Japan are two of them.

cclogg 13y ago
I'm guessing Canada (my country) would be one of them. But our population is roughly 10% that of the US's.
mchaver 13y ago
UK is about 30%, Australia around 28%, China around 20%. US, Japan, China, UK and Australia were topping iOS App store Revenue in Q3 2013. http://blog.appannie.com/app-annie-index-market-q3-2013/ http://blog.appannie.com/app-annie-index-market-q3-2013/
- victorology 13y ago
  Thank you for the link! Very useful.

patio11 13y ago

"World's second largest economy discovered to contain money" is at least better than "Japan will never use the iPhone because they're inscrutable nationalists." (Take note, anyone who thinks "Samsung is Korean. Have you heard about Japan and Korea?" is sage commentary.) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=497069 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=497069

rurounijones 13y ago
Addendum to your statement "Worlds second largest economy with a super fashion (younger)/status (older) obsessed population buys from company known to be high-end and fashionable."
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  Not to mention Japanese handsets suck when it comes to software, and Android is too Korean/Chinese.
  - rurounijones 13y ago
    Japanese handsets' software does indeed suck however Android dominates the Smartphone market (As per above article) and Samsung has good share of android sales[1] so I think the "anti-korean" thing is being blown out of proportion. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6716190 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6716190
- threeseed 13y ago
  Don't forget that Apple has had a pretty stunning retail store in Ginza for nearly a decade now alongside LV, Prada, Chanel etc. http://www.apple.com/jp/retail/ginza/ http://www.apple.com/jp/retail/ginza/
  - mbesto 13y ago
    And now have Angela Ahrendts (former Burberry CEO) at the helm of retail. Very smart move.

yeukhon 13y ago

I am fascinated by this news. I watch a lot of Japanese shows (drama, movies or music video), and it used to be a common thing to see the Japanese using flip phone like this one [1] or non-western branded computers [2]. Only very recently I see android phones. Actually I met this IBM fellow from Japan and as a visually impaired user she was using an iPhone. [1]: https://typhoon-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/image_attachment/image_attachment/731/cellphonenovels.jpg https://typhoon-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/image_at... [3]: http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee463/withsubsplease/screencaps/dramas/Spring%20Dramas/ItsukaHinoAtaruBashode-01848x480F8A5EC7222-35-32_zpsfd1c30a6.jpg http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee463/withsubsplease/scr...

yeukhon 13y ago
and this is still true even in the hottest drama naoki nakazawa

danso 13y ago

Maybe it's no-duh that Apple would find a growth market in Japan, but just because its economy is huge doesn't mean that it's inclined to be a "growth" market for Apple or any other American tech. And this is basically a non-sequitur, but this line of thinking reminded me of this article about why fax machines are still big in Japan http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/world/asia/in-japan-the-fax-machine-is-anything-but-a-relic.html http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/world/asia/in-japan-the-fa...

hkmurakami 13y ago

iPhones becoming available from DoCoMo is huge. They are the carrier with the best signal quality, hands down. You get reception in the middle of remote mountains with DoCoMo. It's akin to when Verizon started offering the iPhone, but multiplied by 5x. Also >One unique factor in Japan is the relatively small presence of Samsung Electronics Co. 005930.SE +2.10% , the world's largest smartphone maker. Samsung ranks fourth in Japan behind Apple, Sony and Sharp Corp., in part because of a Japanese consumer bias that works against many Korean brands. This can't be understated imo. I have friends in Japan who flat out refuse to buy Samsung/LG monitors and other products.

AndrewKemendo 13y ago
Docomo is also widely used in Oceania and other pacific island nations
snogglethorpe 13y ago
> This can't be understated That's a bit overstated... :] Japan's phone manufacturers concentrate on the Japanese domestic market, so there's a great deal more choice in high-quality phones in Japan than in most other countries. Samsung is not "special" like Apple is, in that their products aren't higher-quality / more functional / better designed than the (mostly Japanese) competition, so there's no real reason why Samsung should be ahead of other companies. They may have some price advantage, but price is generally less important in Japan than it is in other countries, and is often rather obscured in phone contracts. Samsung coming in 4th is actually a vote of confidence. To the degree there's a bias in Japan against non-Japanese products, I think it's in most cases less a case of xenophobia, and more simply a higher degree of trust in Japanese products. This isn't entirely illogical either, as Japan does have a very good record of building high-quality products. Japanese can be very, very, picky, about both quality and style. [This is one reason Apple does very well in Japan.]
- moonfern 13y ago
  Indeed, but I can't help it: Once upon a time Japan had a very good record of building low-quality products. Iphones are built in China.

preemrust 13y ago

Large Japanese cities have busy Apple stores too. Besides one to one consultation, they run regular lectures on iPhone and iPad productivity. I think people feel happy being Apple customers. My wife is Japanese and she like Apple's FaceTime more than the Google equivalent because it does not force her to join a social network. Many Japanese are not too keen on creating accounts on networks. I travel a fair bit in Asia and I see slivers of same trend. As people in India, China and Indonesia etc. get busier they will move towards products that are perceived to be simpler and less distracting.

akg_67 13y ago
Actually, during recent visit just a few weeks ago, I was surprised to find Apple Store in Sendai and it was busy (in Tokyo, I wouldn't be that surprised me). The main difference with phones I noticed between the visit this time and last year was the popularity of touch phones versus flip phones. A year ago most phones in subways, I noticed, were flip phones. This year not so much. Definitely lot of iPhones and Sony xperia.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

e2e4 13y ago

The example in the article mentioned a user getting his first smart phone, i.e. switching from a "feature phone". Personally, I've experienced that many people that are getting a 2nd, 3rd smartphone are switching from iphone to android based phones (mostly by Japanese manufacturers). Technical functionality-wise iphone lags far behind: no free digital tv (1seg), no touch-less payment (Felica: could be used as a train ticket, wallet). e.g.: http://www.nttdocomo.co.jp/product/smart_phone/so02f/index.html http://www.nttdocomo.co.jp/product/smart_phone/so02f/index.h...

Xixi 13y ago
It's hard to draw any conclusion from personal anecdote: where I work it's the opposite, all my coworkers who had Android smartphones (Samsung and Sony) are switching to iPhone 5S. Note that none of them is technically savy at all: they can barely use a computer, things like Felica are in the realm of science-fiction for them. They just want a smartphone with a decent camera and Line. By the way that horribly tacky "gold" iThingy is a killer, everybody wants it (Osaka, probably different in other cities).
- MilkyCow 13y ago
  your co-workers are cool. I mean I'm not an APPLE fanboy but when I see a new iPhones/iPADs/iPods and iOS apps they are just flat-out COOL! Enough said.
- e2e4 13y ago
  In Tokyo; quite a few people use smartphones's NFC FeliCa (SUICA) as their train commuting passes (along with the connected payment option): http://www.jreast.co.jp/mobilesuica/whats/models.html http://www.jreast.co.jp/mobilesuica/whats/models.html I guess for JR West it might be different. +1 for pointing out the success of gold iphone in Osaka agree with regards to making conclusions with regards to personal anecdotes (hence the disclaimer); interesting to hear that it is different in your area.

MilkyCow 13y ago

if (COOL = Japan && COOL = Apple) { Japan = Apple; }

tumes 13y ago

Totally anecdotal and only tangentially related, but I've been to Tokyo three times since 2009 and the change in availability of American craft beer as well as Japanese microbrews was honestly staggering. As a Coloradan, it was almost comical to see so much specialty beer from home so far away. Soon after returning from my most recent trip, I happened to sit next to an employee of Left Hand Brewing (Probably the most weirdly ubiquitous Colorado beer I saw there that trip) during lunch, and it turns out some beverage exporter pays the freight on the kegs to and from Tokyo just to bring Left Hand overseas. I have to imagine this marks some sort of change in tastes and economics, at least in the big city.

bni 13y ago

Always in these kind of articles they have to write that people choosing Apple are drones that only buy couse of the high status of the Apple brand. It can never be that iPhones actually work consistently and have software that is not "mixed up" by carriers and Android-vendors. Could it be that the iPhone is a good product that makes people choose it? Its offensive.

37prime 13y ago

"Surprising"? Incarnations of iPhone had been the top selling phone in Japan for quite some time. Anyone remember the headline from Wired "Why the Japanese Hate the iPhone" (http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/02/why-the-iphone/ http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/02/why-the-iphone/) Media bias goes both ways.

hclee 13y ago

It is not just because of service plan resembling US market but Japanese's favor to Western stuffs. Japanese have been particularly obsessed with European luxury goods (accessories to bags), western cultures, musics, goods and whatever the fancy to them. iPhone of course.

exo_duz 13y ago

I still remember when the iPhone was first available in Japan. They had to change a lot just to accommodate the functions. For example Japan does not use SMS. Only Softbank uses SMS which is why they are the most popular for foreigners who try to contact overseas. Even then each SMS overseas costs an average of 105yen (US$1) each. Or with AU/KDDI which only allows SMS to same network phones. Japan uses mobile email which is still widely used and Softbank as a result had to modify iPhone standard systems to allow this. Saying this my point is that Japan's problem lies with the fact that their technology is in it's own universe and not available outside. Which is a good thing and a bad thing. For example, TVs in Japan cannot be used overseas, their phone systems use WCDMA which cannot be used overseas. When Japan was the centre of the technology world this was good because the world had to try to follow them. Now that they aren't they have to be able to adapt so that their technology legacy will survive the future changes from overseas. Here's hoping that the turn in people's thinking might help Japan get out of their technology downslide.

w1ntermute 13y ago
> Japan's problem lies with the fact that their technology is in it's own universe and not available outside. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gal%C3%A1pagos_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gal%C3%A1pagos_syndrome
- exo_duz 13y ago
  So true and so sad. From the great innovator to the follower. I also realised that the people are quite inflexible and unwilling to change. The following article explains it so well. Although it's about design/web but it gives you an insight to how Japanese think. http://randomwire.com/why-japanese-web-design-is-so-different/ http://randomwire.com/why-japanese-web-design-is-so-differen...

WoodenChair 13y ago

It's not that surprising. Japan has always been an Apple stronghold... Going way back into the pre-iMac days