4 ms·

I'm not sure I get your point...are you saying there was no intent? Here's what I'm trying to say: If you buy a copy, everyone involved in making it gets paid.

I'm not sure I get your point...are you saying there was no intent? Here's what I'm trying to say: If you buy a copy, everyone involved in making it gets paid. If you pirate it, they don't get paid. In other words, they were deprived of that payment. I'm sure the legal specifics are quite different, but in common parlance, taking something without permission is theft, even if it's not tangible property (e.g. "he stole my idea".)

biehl 13y ago
Sorry, but you are mistaken. I have a wonderful piece of software on my disk that your are not buying. Are you "depriving" me of that payment? Even more - schoolchildren are regularly copying massive amounts of files - are you (obviously dishonestly) claiming that they have the funds at their disposal to pay for the "in shop" prices of those files?
- throwawaykf 13y ago
  > I have a wonderful piece of software on my disk that your are not buying. Are you "depriving" me of that payment? I don't understand - have I appropriated that software by any means? Then why would you be owed some payment? > are you (obviously dishonestly) claiming that they have the funds at their disposal to pay for the "in shop" prices of those files? No, I'm claiming that they should not be copying those files. Are you implying that none of those children can get funds for paying for those copies?
digler999 13y ago
That's bullshit. I pirate Springer books that someone else (whoever ripped them had lawful access to them) paid for - no different than when I go to the library and read Springer books that someone else (the library) paid for. The bottom line is: __I'm not paying___. No authors or profiteering publishers are deprived of _any_ payment. They gouged me when I went to school and they continue to gouge students each semester with their new editions that come out each semester of 400 year old subjects (calculus). That's what they need to do to maximize profits. I'm simply a 1-man corporation that needs to maximize my own profits and copying my books happens to be an unpopular corporate decision.
- drunkenmasta 13y ago
  amen
e12e 13y ago
[edit: > I'm not sure I get your point...are you saying there was no intent? I'm saying there was no intent to deprive someone of access to something they already own, or are in possession of. There might be intent to not pay for a licence to access something -- but not paying isn't the same as stealing. Everyone else still have access to their licences and licensed copies.] Legally, theft means you deprive someone of their access to a thing. There's a difference between that, and "getting something for free that you should pay for" -- when that 'thing' isn't a thing at all -- it's a copy -- and by the act of copying you aren't depriving anyone of their access to the thing you copied. If you steal a book, you're staling it from the current owner: either an avid book fan, a shop, a library. On very rare occasions, say at a conference -- the owner of the book-thing will happen to be the same legal entity as the author (tough even more seldom the copyright holder, as that might be the publisher). I'm not saying that copyright infringement is legal, I'm saying it's not theft. On a side note, the use of the word piracy is even worse -- it implies threats and/or application of violence -- effectively lifting something that is a civil matter to a criminal matter. > in common parlance, taking something without permission is theft, even if it's not tangible property (e.g. "he stole my idea".) And you can also call "a bargain" "a steal". That doesn't mean it's illegal to shop at a fire sale...
- throwawaykf 13y ago
  > - but not paying isn't the same as stealing. Yes, it is. If you do that with physical items, it's called "shoplifting" :-) You may now argue that taking, say, a loaf of bread deprives somebody of it. But consider that between 14 and 40 percent of perishable supermarket groceries are discarded as waste. Who's to then stop you from saying you took the loaf that was going to be discarded anyway and so you're not depriving anybody? > I'm not saying that copyright infringement is legal, I'm saying it's not theft. And I'm saying, colloquially, copyright infringement is equivalent to theft. This is why there are laws against it, it's just that the legal code is different for different crimes. Now, one may insist on using the proper legal terms, but note that this is not a legal forum or a legal debate, so colloquial usage is fine :-) > And you can also call "a bargain" "a steal". That doesn't mean it's illegal to shop at a fire sale... And you can say "she stole my heart". That does not mean it's illegal to be attractive either. Obviously the context of how the word "steal" is used matters. But note that it typically has negative connotations, implying that the act is somehow unfair. And when talking about taking without permission, stealing describes the act pretty well.

biehl 13y ago

Sorry, but you are mistaken. I have a wonderful piece of software on my disk that your are not buying. Are you "depriving" me of that payment? Even more - schoolchildren are regularly copying massive amounts of files - are you (obviously dishonestly) claiming that they have the funds at their disposal to pay for the "in shop" prices of those files?

throwawaykf 13y ago
> I have a wonderful piece of software on my disk that your are not buying. Are you "depriving" me of that payment? I don't understand - have I appropriated that software by any means? Then why would you be owed some payment? > are you (obviously dishonestly) claiming that they have the funds at their disposal to pay for the "in shop" prices of those files? No, I'm claiming that they should not be copying those files. Are you implying that none of those children can get funds for paying for those copies?

digler999 13y ago

That's bullshit. I pirate Springer books that someone else (whoever ripped them had lawful access to them) paid for - no different than when I go to the library and read Springer books that someone else (the library) paid for. The bottom line is: __I'm not paying___. No authors or profiteering publishers are deprived of _any_ payment. They gouged me when I went to school and they continue to gouge students each semester with their new editions that come out each semester of 400 year old subjects (calculus). That's what they need to do to maximize profits. I'm simply a 1-man corporation that needs to maximize my own profits and copying my books happens to be an unpopular corporate decision.

drunkenmasta 13y ago
amen

e12e 13y ago

[edit: > I'm not sure I get your point...are you saying there was no intent? I'm saying there was no intent to deprive someone of access to something they already own, or are in possession of. There might be intent to not pay for a licence to access something -- but not paying isn't the same as stealing. Everyone else still have access to their licences and licensed copies.] Legally, theft means you deprive someone of their access to a thing. There's a difference between that, and "getting something for free that you should pay for" -- when that 'thing' isn't a thing at all -- it's a copy -- and by the act of copying you aren't depriving anyone of their access to the thing you copied. If you steal a book, you're staling it from the current owner: either an avid book fan, a shop, a library. On very rare occasions, say at a conference -- the owner of the book-thing will happen to be the same legal entity as the author (tough even more seldom the copyright holder, as that might be the publisher). I'm not saying that copyright infringement is legal, I'm saying it's not theft. On a side note, the use of the word piracy is even worse -- it implies threats and/or application of violence -- effectively lifting something that is a civil matter to a criminal matter. > in common parlance, taking something without permission is theft, even if it's not tangible property (e.g. "he stole my idea".) And you can also call "a bargain" "a steal". That doesn't mean it's illegal to shop at a fire sale...

throwawaykf 13y ago
> - but not paying isn't the same as stealing. Yes, it is. If you do that with physical items, it's called "shoplifting" :-) You may now argue that taking, say, a loaf of bread deprives somebody of it. But consider that between 14 and 40 percent of perishable supermarket groceries are discarded as waste. Who's to then stop you from saying you took the loaf that was going to be discarded anyway and so you're not depriving anybody? > I'm not saying that copyright infringement is legal, I'm saying it's not theft. And I'm saying, colloquially, copyright infringement is equivalent to theft. This is why there are laws against it, it's just that the legal code is different for different crimes. Now, one may insist on using the proper legal terms, but note that this is not a legal forum or a legal debate, so colloquial usage is fine :-) > And you can also call "a bargain" "a steal". That doesn't mean it's illegal to shop at a fire sale... And you can say "she stole my heart". That does not mean it's illegal to be attractive either. Obviously the context of how the word "steal" is used matters. But note that it typically has negative connotations, implying that the act is somehow unfair. And when talking about taking without permission, stealing describes the act pretty well.