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Does Google kidnap people? Confiscate their equipment? Harass travellers at the airports? Send IRS after their competition? No? Can Facebook maybe deny me a bu

Does Google kidnap people? Confiscate their equipment? Harass travellers at the airports? Send IRS after their competition? No? Can Facebook maybe deny me a business license? Cancel my passport? Is there a Facebook commando that would break down my doors if I did something Mark Zuckerberg didn't like? No? Can we then stop pretending like corporations and governments play even remotely in the same league? What can Google actually do? Target me with ads? I won't so much as see them. And I don't use facebook, it barely raises an eyebrow. I couldn't try that with a national ID because I wouldn't be able to do anything.

Nursie 13y ago
>> What can Google actually do? Give everything to the NSA, IRS or anyone else that asks.
- hfsktr 13y ago
  Wouldn't the upside be that at least they'd have to ask? Just saying there is a difference even if they get the data either way. Well, there should be at least.
  - sp332 13y ago
    Did you miss the recent news about the NSA tapping Google's internal server-to-server communications in real time? They don't have to ask anymore. Edit: this one https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6680763 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6680763
    - hfsktr 13y ago
      I (probably) did miss that. I only have so much time to spend on here and so much stuff just falls through the cracks. It's the worst of both worlds then already.
    - wooter 13y ago
      and that is the purpose of the Constitution. Eventually, governments can force their way into anything. Which is why the Fourth Amendment is so explicit. They are breaking the law. A few months ago they were using the "metadata" argument. Where are the prosecutions now that thats obviously BS?!
    - einehexe 13y ago
      Apparently you missed it. That was done by the British and shared with the NSA. Maybe that narrative doesn't work for you but that is what happened.
adventured 13y ago
Google also doesn't: molest me at airports or train stations, drone civilians, assassinate anybody, launch wars that kill tens of thousands, murder your family with a SWAT team, violate your rights with force via parallel construction, threaten you with the espionage act, sell guns to Mexican cartels, sell weapons to anybody much less theocracies and violent 3rd world states. Google also can't null and void the entire US Constitution at will by using force. Yep, it's absurd to the extreme to compare the NSA and Feds to Google.
- gamerdonkey 13y ago
  With all the uproar about Youtube comments, you'd be forgiven to think Google was doing all of that.
sp332 13y ago
All that stuff is not surveillance. The NSA/FBI/TSA etc. can do all that with or without information about you.
- bediger4000 13y ago
  I thnk you're missing the economics of all the bad stuff: without dragnet surveillance, the NSA/FBI/TSA can't really drone-whack anyone appropriate. They have to put out a little old-fashioned effort to decide who to drone. It's inefficient at best. Also, without dragnet surveillance, the TSA can only hassle random travelers (which might actually be an improvement in security).
diminoten 13y ago
Does the NSA do any of that? Does the NSA even run operations at all? Can they do any of that? Google, Facebook, et. al. can willfully share your information with the US or any other government. AT&T gets paid $10 million annually for access to your data, and as a publicly traded company, if they don't do that, they're not being fair to their shareholders, to whom they've promised to maximize profits.
- Zigurd 13y ago
  "We track 'em, you whack 'em." http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-07-21/world/40713603_1_national-security-agency-former-senior-agency-official-intelligence http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-07-21/world/40713603...
ds9 13y ago
It isn't an either/or. If you give data to Google, Facebook or other data-accumulating companies, you're giving it to the government. The reverse is not true, so if only the government is surveilling you, you can still stay out of some of the corporate databases.

Nursie 13y ago

>> What can Google actually do? Give everything to the NSA, IRS or anyone else that asks.

hfsktr 13y ago
Wouldn't the upside be that at least they'd have to ask? Just saying there is a difference even if they get the data either way. Well, there should be at least.
- sp332 13y ago
  Did you miss the recent news about the NSA tapping Google's internal server-to-server communications in real time? They don't have to ask anymore. Edit: this one https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6680763 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6680763
  - hfsktr 13y ago
    I (probably) did miss that. I only have so much time to spend on here and so much stuff just falls through the cracks. It's the worst of both worlds then already.
  - wooter 13y ago
    and that is the purpose of the Constitution. Eventually, governments can force their way into anything. Which is why the Fourth Amendment is so explicit. They are breaking the law. A few months ago they were using the "metadata" argument. Where are the prosecutions now that thats obviously BS?!
  - einehexe 13y ago
    Apparently you missed it. That was done by the British and shared with the NSA. Maybe that narrative doesn't work for you but that is what happened.

adventured 13y ago

Google also doesn't: molest me at airports or train stations, drone civilians, assassinate anybody, launch wars that kill tens of thousands, murder your family with a SWAT team, violate your rights with force via parallel construction, threaten you with the espionage act, sell guns to Mexican cartels, sell weapons to anybody much less theocracies and violent 3rd world states. Google also can't null and void the entire US Constitution at will by using force. Yep, it's absurd to the extreme to compare the NSA and Feds to Google.

gamerdonkey 13y ago
With all the uproar about Youtube comments, you'd be forgiven to think Google was doing all of that.

sp332 13y ago

All that stuff is not surveillance. The NSA/FBI/TSA etc. can do all that with or without information about you.

bediger4000 13y ago
I thnk you're missing the economics of all the bad stuff: without dragnet surveillance, the NSA/FBI/TSA can't really drone-whack anyone appropriate. They have to put out a little old-fashioned effort to decide who to drone. It's inefficient at best. Also, without dragnet surveillance, the TSA can only hassle random travelers (which might actually be an improvement in security).

diminoten 13y ago

Does the NSA do any of that? Does the NSA even run operations at all? Can they do any of that? Google, Facebook, et. al. can willfully share your information with the US or any other government. AT&T gets paid $10 million annually for access to your data, and as a publicly traded company, if they don't do that, they're not being fair to their shareholders, to whom they've promised to maximize profits.

Zigurd 13y ago
"We track 'em, you whack 'em." http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-07-21/world/40713603_1_national-security-agency-former-senior-agency-official-intelligence http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-07-21/world/40713603...

ds9 13y ago

It isn't an either/or. If you give data to Google, Facebook or other data-accumulating companies, you're giving it to the government. The reverse is not true, so if only the government is surveilling you, you can still stay out of some of the corporate databases.