3 ms·

You do realize that many of the people who object to IP laws don't object because they want to build consumer services without having to pay for content, but be

by lambda 13y ago

You do realize that many of the people who object to IP laws don't object because they want to build consumer services without having to pay for content, but because they want to produce hardware and software without having to cripple them, right? This is not "just another market with a a wide variety of interested parties." This is people telling me what I am legally allowed to do in my own home. This is passing laws saying that you can't produce an innovative new device because someone, somewhere may use it to subvert someone else's IP interests. And the issue with the treaty process is that a treaty can be used to bypass the democratic process within a country. A proposal that would be shot down due to public outcry can instead be done in a secret treaty, only revealed once it's fait accompli, with everyone involved being able to disclaim that "I didn't want that, but that's what we had to do to get the treaty passed" and thus dodge the political ramifications.

anigbrowl 13y ago
I've been hearing this since the late 80s and the sky still hasn't fallen. If you don't like it by all means call your senator, donate to opponents of the trade deal, fight against it/ I'm not trying to get you to support the TPP (not least because I don't know what's in it either, so far); my reason for jumping into this thread is to point out that the EFF is making flat-out false arguments, which strikes me as an absolutely stupid way to gin up opposition about it. If they had written an article saying 'TPP negotiations should be public' I wouldn't object in the least - that's a perfectly reasonable view, even though I am not very exercised about it. Indeed, I linked to a letter from a group articulating exactly that position up thread. But saying 'NYT endorsed secret trade treaty' is simply a falsehood.
- mcherm 13y ago
  > If you don't like it by all means call your senator, donate to opponents of the trade deal, fight against it Well, I would LIKE to do that. I would LIKE to contact my president and the administration officials who are negotiating the treaty and provide them with my feedback and comments on the proposed wording. I would even like to spend some of my hard-earned money paying world-renowned experts (such as those who work with the EFF) to review it and provide even more insightful feedback. Unfortunately, the text of the treaty is secret so I cannot do these things. I complain that I am being prevented from participating in democracy and you write that if I don't like it I should participate in democracy. Perhaps you don't understand the complaint that is being raised.
  - anigbrowl 13y ago
    You'll be able to read it when it's presented to the Senate for ratification. There seems to be some notion that the Senate is going to vote on it in secret, but I don't find any evidence of this being the case.
    - mcherm 13y ago
      When it is presented to the Senate for ratification is too late to have any influence on the text -- at that point the agreement can only be accepted or rejected.

by lambda 13y ago

anigbrowl 13y ago

I've been hearing this since the late 80s and the sky still hasn't fallen. If you don't like it by all means call your senator, donate to opponents of the trade deal, fight against it/ I'm not trying to get you to support the TPP (not least because I don't know what's in it either, so far); my reason for jumping into this thread is to point out that the EFF is making flat-out false arguments, which strikes me as an absolutely stupid way to gin up opposition about it. If they had written an article saying 'TPP negotiations should be public' I wouldn't object in the least - that's a perfectly reasonable view, even though I am not very exercised about it. Indeed, I linked to a letter from a group articulating exactly that position up thread. But saying 'NYT endorsed secret trade treaty' is simply a falsehood.

mcherm 13y ago
> If you don't like it by all means call your senator, donate to opponents of the trade deal, fight against it Well, I would LIKE to do that. I would LIKE to contact my president and the administration officials who are negotiating the treaty and provide them with my feedback and comments on the proposed wording. I would even like to spend some of my hard-earned money paying world-renowned experts (such as those who work with the EFF) to review it and provide even more insightful feedback. Unfortunately, the text of the treaty is secret so I cannot do these things. I complain that I am being prevented from participating in democracy and you write that if I don't like it I should participate in democracy. Perhaps you don't understand the complaint that is being raised.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  You'll be able to read it when it's presented to the Senate for ratification. There seems to be some notion that the Senate is going to vote on it in secret, but I don't find any evidence of this being the case.
  - mcherm 13y ago
    When it is presented to the Senate for ratification is too late to have any influence on the text -- at that point the agreement can only be accepted or rejected.