4 ms·

You're being too hard on India. In every country there is a small % of talented programmers. Many of those smart Indian programmers are doing fantastic work in

You're being too hard on India. In every country there is a small % of talented programmers. Many of those smart Indian programmers are doing fantastic work in grad schools around the world. They are a huge part of Silicon Valley (as are Chinese ex-pats). Of course, there's a larger % of code monkeys. Indian code monkeys are, IMO, better than American code monkeys because they follow instructions and work hard despite their limited talents. Rote memorization and checklists and "process" are necessary to get less capable programmers to function.

jimbokun 17y ago
"Many of those smart Indian programmers are doing fantastic work in grad schools around the world." They may be at those grad schools "around the world" precisely because their native culture does not value creative, innovative work that goes beyond rote memorization and checklists. There are brilliant and creative people everywhere, but the culture you are born into has a lot to say about how brilliance and creativity can be expressed, if at all.
- dasil003 17y ago
  Is it cultural, or is it just the result of the boom cycle making it easier to make a rupee by following rather than leading? My gut instinct is that the sad state of Indian IT is purely a result of being supported by clueless management in developed countries thinking they can easily save big bucks by outsourcing. India is just filling a demand. After a decade or two of Indians growing up in this economy and seeing the failures first hand, I predict things will have equalized quite a bit, and the smart Indians will all be saying "Why work for clueless bosses when we can do better and we have huge markets of our own?" Of course that process will be kickstarted by Indian expats witnessing the failures of enterprise IT firsthand in the richest corporations of the world.
  - alexgartrell 17y ago
    Throughout school they're ranked against their peers. This extends to a National ranking, where only the top n% can get into IIT. Their high schools are also heavily basied on rote memorization-type learning.
DougWebb 17y ago
"Indian code monkeys are, IMO, better than American code monkeys because they follow instructions and work hard despite their limited talents. Rote memorization and checklists and "process" are necessary to get less capable programmers to function." I don't think I'd use the word "better" here. As a US senior developer who delegates a lot of work to both Indian contractors and in-house junior developers, it really doesn't help me when the person I'm delegating to can't do the job well, but works real hard at it. That just wastes time and still produces inferior code. I'd much rather have the person tell me "I'm lost and can't do this" right away, so I can either delegate to someone else or provide more detailed directions earlier rather than later. Also, consider applying that statement to any other professional career. Would you want your less-capable doctor to be allowed to practice medicine because he can memorize really well and follow checklists? No, of course not: the less-capable doctor should be forced to find a career he's good at.
- iamelgringo 17y ago
  Sadly, I'm a critical care nurse, and I've worked with a lot of doctors that aren't really capable, but they practice medicine because they were able to memorize really well and follow checklists. The person who graduates at the bottom of his medical school class still gets to write "Md" after his name.

jimbokun 17y ago

"Many of those smart Indian programmers are doing fantastic work in grad schools around the world." They may be at those grad schools "around the world" precisely because their native culture does not value creative, innovative work that goes beyond rote memorization and checklists. There are brilliant and creative people everywhere, but the culture you are born into has a lot to say about how brilliance and creativity can be expressed, if at all.

dasil003 17y ago
Is it cultural, or is it just the result of the boom cycle making it easier to make a rupee by following rather than leading? My gut instinct is that the sad state of Indian IT is purely a result of being supported by clueless management in developed countries thinking they can easily save big bucks by outsourcing. India is just filling a demand. After a decade or two of Indians growing up in this economy and seeing the failures first hand, I predict things will have equalized quite a bit, and the smart Indians will all be saying "Why work for clueless bosses when we can do better and we have huge markets of our own?" Of course that process will be kickstarted by Indian expats witnessing the failures of enterprise IT firsthand in the richest corporations of the world.
- alexgartrell 17y ago
  Throughout school they're ranked against their peers. This extends to a National ranking, where only the top n% can get into IIT. Their high schools are also heavily basied on rote memorization-type learning.

DougWebb 17y ago

"Indian code monkeys are, IMO, better than American code monkeys because they follow instructions and work hard despite their limited talents. Rote memorization and checklists and "process" are necessary to get less capable programmers to function." I don't think I'd use the word "better" here. As a US senior developer who delegates a lot of work to both Indian contractors and in-house junior developers, it really doesn't help me when the person I'm delegating to can't do the job well, but works real hard at it. That just wastes time and still produces inferior code. I'd much rather have the person tell me "I'm lost and can't do this" right away, so I can either delegate to someone else or provide more detailed directions earlier rather than later. Also, consider applying that statement to any other professional career. Would you want your less-capable doctor to be allowed to practice medicine because he can memorize really well and follow checklists? No, of course not: the less-capable doctor should be forced to find a career he's good at.

iamelgringo 17y ago
Sadly, I'm a critical care nurse, and I've worked with a lot of doctors that aren't really capable, but they practice medicine because they were able to memorize really well and follow checklists. The person who graduates at the bottom of his medical school class still gets to write "Md" after his name.