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Silk Road 2.0 Launches
- shocks 13y agoWell, that was inevitable.
- andrewljohnson 13y agoI'd never buy heroin from a website, but I see the Silk Road as cyber-civil-disobedience, and I hope the persona of DPR and the site itself are as unsinkable as they claim. The drug war is a ghastly thing, and the number of people we lock up in the US is more shameful than our foreign policy. You can begrudge the first DPR his lame security, shady murder contracts, and ill-gotten fortune, but he's the product of our system, and his shame is our shame.
- gasull 13y agoThe current DPR is allegedly the third one, and the one in jail is the second, as he said in an interview with Forbes.
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- m_ram 13y agoForbes interviewed DPR (Ulbricht or not) in August. "Roberts isn’t actually the site’s founder, he revealed in our interview. He credits Silk Road’s creation to another, even more secretive entrepreneur whom he declined to tell me anything about and who may have used the “Dread Pirate Roberts” nom de guerre before it was assumed by the person I interviewed." http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/08/14/meet-the-dread-pirate-roberts-the-man-behind-booming-black-market-drug-website-silk-road/2/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/08/14/meet-th...
- clarkm 13y agoYeah, he was just saying that to throw people off his trail.
- the_watcher 13y agoNOTE: I live in Austin and am acquaintances with a few people who knew him a bit while he was here. From what I understand, at the time of Silk Road's creation, he was not nearly technically capable of creating a site like it. He seems to have learned enough to administer and update the site, but the initial construction was done by another.
- jes5199 13y agoSR was just a glorified rails app, and my understanding was that it was initially pretty buggy. It's within reason that someone could pick up the knowledge they need within a few months to build such a thing, at least enough to get it rolling.
- JustinAiken 13y agoI thought it used PHP? At least the question on StackOverflow that allegedly led to his demise asked about PHP issues.
- hyperpape 13y agoAre there holes in the timeline that connected Ulbricht to Silk Road? Because that timeline didn't really leave any time for there to have been a first DPR.
- jeffbr13 13y agoReports indicate that the original DPR retired to Patagonia 15 years ago, and has been living like a king ever since.
- chris11 13y agoHow does work? Wikipedia says that the silk road started in February of 2011. And if that was months, it would still only give him around a year and a half on the site.
- carbocation 13y agoPrincess Bride joke.
- dcposch 13y agoThis one's the Fed Pirate Roberts :p The way this site launched so soon after the original was shut down--with the same name, same styling, even the same "Dread Pirate Roberts" moniker--makes me very suspicious.
- lallysingh 13y agoMeh, nothing more than a recursive wget will do that.
- SideburnsOfDoom 13y agoI am beginning to see the significance of the name "Dread Pirate Roberts". In The Princess Bride, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093779/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093779/ it was actually a title that was handed down, and the current Dread Pirate Roberts is the third one. The Princess Bride has wonderfully quotable dialogue, e.g. "Have you ever considered piracy? You'd make a wonderful Dread Pirate Roberts."
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- corin_ 13y agoAre you saying heroin specifically because you do buy it but not from websites, or because some drugs you'd trust to a website (regardless of whether you personally buy them or not) but heroin not, or were you just naming a random drug?
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- tslathrow 13y agoI will never understand why Silk Road is easier than just hitting up your dealer
- corin_ 13y agoI've never used SR (or similar site), but there's plenty of drugs which I couldn't get locally if I wanted them - I'm sure they are sold near me, but I wouldn't know how to find them. Heroin, LSD... etc. Hitting up a dealer is only easy if you know how to find a dealer. (Personally I've looked for mushrooms in the past with absolutely no joy. So I've never done mushrooms.) For all drugs, it's quite possible that online offers better quality. I've known cocaine users whose local dealers only sold shitty quality, afaik I don't know anyone who has bought online but it might make sense for them in that case. And drugs like weed, might well be that you want a choice of strains whereas most dealers just have whatever they managed to buy, not a supermarket range of choices.
- subpixel 13y agoI don't see the Silk Roads of the world making much difference with regard to the drug war. Right now Silk Road is the eBay of drugs, where convenience is it's competitive advantage. I can get some drug without visiting a shady person in some shady place, but the drugs (in general) are still coming to the US the bloody, violent way via paramilitaries, druglords, etc. A huge part of the US war on drugs takes place among and between those parties, with the US not always supporting the side you might expect. I'd be more excited about an Etsy of drugs, where people could buy whatever they want straight from the source, bypassing the blood trail. Good luck getting packages delivered from Afghanistan or Colombia though.
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- joshontheweb 13y ago| but the drugs (in general) are still coming to the US th bloody, violent way via paramilitaries, druglords, etc. Not necessarily. A lot of them appear to be shipped in via post from outside the US direct to the buyer.
- subpixel 13y agoI was trying to point out that the drug war doesn't begin or end at the border.
- jbackus 13y agoYes, but that is where most of the enforcement is and therefore most of the violence.
- XorNot 13y agoWow, this is incredibly uninformed. For one thing, no one's bothering to attack the US border, whereas in Brazil the government is fighting numerous active paramilitary groups which are basically all just fighting each other for control of the drug trade.
- rhgraysonii 13y agoI completely agree with this. Looking at it from a civil disobedience standpoint really exemplifies what we need to do to protect our freedom on the web in the coming future. With the onslaught of information with PRISM, spying, etc. the general public becoming aware of these sort of "rogue web pirates" is quite important to raising awareness even if it is only due to shock value that the general media is reporting it.
- JackFr 13y ago> You can begrudge the first DPR his lame security, shady murder contracts, and ill-gotten fortune, but he's the product of our system, and his shame is our shame. That is probably the dumbest thing I've read in months.
- mtinkerhess 13y agoI agree that andrewljohnson's statement is debatable but I think it's also defensible. I'm envious of the quality of your reading material if you haven't read anything dumber in months.
- Geep 13y agoHow about you back that up with something... It's actually quite spot on. The only reason the Silk Road is used is because there's a need for it. A need that's created by our current litigious and unproductive drug laws.
- JackFr 13y agoI presume that you are not actually looking for my reading list for the past month, but rather an explanation of why what you think is 'spot on' strikes me as 'dumb'. Let's parse it: > You can begrudge the first DPR his lame security, shady murder contracts, and ill-gotten fortune, I spent a decent amount of time trying to figure out what that meant until finally it occurred to me that the OP simply does not seem to know what the word begrudge means. He saw a similar construction used in a well written piece and copied it. > but he's the product of our system, Utter abnegation of personal responsibility. What about the rest of us who don't try to have people killed? Are we not also products of the system? > and his shame is our shame. Most assuredly not. I have on occasion behaved shamefully. I have not tried to have people killed. I have not facilitated what I consider dangerous and debilitating behavior. His shame is not my shame, nor is mine his. Society is not to blame. You say "The only reason the Silk Road is used is because there's a need for it." Nothing could be further from the truth. The only reason the Silk Road exists is because there is a desire for it. In the language of the moral theorists, not all desires are ordered desires. It's a tough pill for the libertarians to swallow, but disordered behavior does not warrant the same privilege as well-ordered behavior.
- mkramlich 13y agoI didn't produce him, or it. Thus I feel no shame.
- speeder 13y agoBut you pay taxes that finance the government stupidity and violence.
- mindcruzer 13y agoIt's not like he has a choice.
- speeder 13y agoThere is choices, it is not easy to do, but there are ways. Because everyone gives up that government do shit.
- miguelrochefort 13y ago> I'd never buy heroin from a website I'd rather buy heroin from Silk Road (where it's peer-reviewed and often tested by third-parties) than on the street. Buying online is just overall less risky.
- dobbsbob 13y agoUsed to be less risky now they slam you with interstate trafficking charges which can climb to 10+yrs whereas getting jacked on the street and losing $50 doesn't sound too bad in comparison.
- lfmb 13y agoMaybe if you are a USA resident.
- lowkeykiwi 13y agoDepends how well you know your dealer.
- loceng 13y agoThe one glaring problem with anonymous purchasing of items is assassinations / hits that people seem to be hired for through it. There are other bad things too. Society could become a very fucked up place - even more so than now as people gain trust for that system.
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- ihsw 13y agoI have a sneaking suspicion that it's a honeypot. Just a hunch.
- cLeEOGPw 13y agoCould be, but would they really dare to mock themselves in the honeypot? If it is a honeypot, it's very convincing and elaborate.
- loginx 13y agoI would say, that's exactly what you want from your honeypot. What I don't really know, I guess, are the legal implications of entraping people on such a mass scale. I'm also not sure about the usefulness of such a honeypot, since you can't actually track the buyers. Just because someone pays you to send drugs to some address, doesn't mean it's their own address
- corin_ 13y agoIANAL, but my understanding of entrapment is that law enforcement has to persuade you to break a law that you wouldn't otherwise have broken - for example if you walk up to a cop and say "sell me some weed" that isn't entrapment, unless he initiated it and persuaded you to try to buy some weed - so if this site was a honeypot, it wouldn't be entrapment, as buyers and sellers are both going there without any persuasion, because they already want to do something illegal. That said, I agree with other comments here as to why it's unlikely to be a honeypot.
- nikcub 13y ago> If it is a honeypot, it's very convincing and elaborate. There is no other way to run a honeypot. Reminder that the feds ran the two largest carding forums on the web: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DarkMarket http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DarkMarket They almost entirely destroyed English-language US-based carding forums in the process.
- groups 13y ago>would they really dare to mock themselves in the honeypot? Of course they would. The makers of a maximally-effective honeypot aren't going to shy away from making fun of TLAs. They'll do what's most effective. With that said, I doubt it's a honeypot. Of course I don't plan to test that hypothesis.
- girvo 13y agoThe sudden rise of terribly programmed, horribly insecure marketplaces as hidden services since SR went down has been absolutely fascinating.
- tsigo 13y agoAny particular reason you're assuming this one is terribly programmed and horribly insecure? Other than past experience, I guess.
- girvo 13y agoThe litany of hidden service marketplace failures in the past month alone is enough to make me have little faith in this endeavour. I'm just glad im watching on as am outsider: quite a few people in desperate situations are losing lots of money.
- hackerboos 13y agoI don't know where you got this from. Silk Road wasn't busted because of anything in the sites code-base.
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- khax 13y agopretty sure its a honeypot.
- spang 13y agoMy favorite bit is Forbes' publishing software automatically linking the handle "Steve Jobs" to their profile of the real Steve Jobs. Classy!
- ChuckMcM 13y agoNot unexpected of course, the demand for narcotics and other services is still out there. I can't help but wonder if this isn't a bit like becoming the new head of some terrorist organization, the target is now painted day-glo orange and we know that it is not only on the 'radar' of law enforcement, its a priority target. The clock starts, and a number of resources are now tasked with taking you out. Of course the genius of the Princess Bride with respect to the DPR character is that the character cannot be killed or captured or prosecuted, because it isn't really a person, it is an idea. And that was wonderfully illustrated in the book, film, and now in world around us.
- celticninja 13y agoI think it will be interesting to watch, no doubt this time round the creators have been anonymous from the get go. Avoiding all the errors that DPR/Ulbricht made would be quite simple given the knowledge we have from court documents of how he was caught. If these guys get caught then I think we can more safely assume that it was a case of parallel construction after the targets were initially identified by the NSA/GCHQ tracking them via Tor. Only the biggest dealers and the operators would be worthy of the resources required to undertake that task.
- thex86 13y agoA serious question: while I have nothing against Silk Road (the drug war is a waste of money anyways), aren't people afraid of putting stuff in their body that they had an anonymous person send to them? I mean, unless the seller has a reputation, isn't there is a substantial risk of using that drug? Are my fears unfound? On one hand, the idea of buying drugs online is probably more safe than doing it on the streets, but the anonymity this offers has a potential downside like the one I mentioned above.
- corin_ 13y agoThey have ratings systems on there to help this - obviously it doesn't mean it's not possible to get stuff that isn't want you think it is, but it's not too much better or worse than trusting a local dealer on the street.
- ye 13y agoBut dead people can't leave negative reviews.
- zaphoyd 13y agokilling your customers seems like a poor business plan though
- ye 13y agoUnless you're a serial killer.
- alan_cx 13y agoDepends how long it takes. If you kill people slowly, so, booze, fags, fatty food, pollution, and so on, then its fine. Killing people really fast, well, that's then it gets iffy. Oh, unless you are a government waging a jihad, or is it "war", on something. Im sure they must be a line some where...
- dwaltrip 13y ago
- siphor 13y agoAs I've never heard of the site before it was seized, the DEA gave it some good advertising. They probably will have grown the site much quicker by trying to stop it.
- lelf 13y agoThere is cool interesting feature — two factor auth. But not your usual one. It ask you to decrypt random string encrypted with your public GPG key (you provide it in prefs).
- Spittie 13y agoHopefully it won't be another "Project: Black Flag", http://buttcoin.org/silk-road-replacement-project-black-flag-closes-shop-owner-thanks-everyone-free-coins http://buttcoin.org/silk-road-replacement-project-black-flag...
- hack_edu 13y agoNever, ever, ever trust anyone or anything that suddenly reappears after a major bust by the authorities. NEVER. Move on.
- malandrew 13y agoOne would think that they'd start moving to technologies that are decentralized using technologies such as distributed hash tables. This puts the onus on the users to have a client app that helps host the transaction system for everyone else. The clients would openly share the buy and sell orders and then communication would moved to an encrypted channel that supports perfect forward secrecy. The only part that ostensibly needs to be centralized is a ledger maintaining the reputation tied to some pseudonym. i.e. the identity of DPR is passed along to all the users of the site collectively.
- jes5199 13y agoYes, but those systems don't exist yet, and the cost of setting up a Rails app hidden inside Tor is much lower.
- nazgulnarsil 13y agoYou don't need the ledger to be centralized either. A bitcoin style blockchain stores transaction histories tied to a specific set of keys/wallets. In the future I imagine some sort of reputation system will be maintained using this.
- Jonovono 13y agoYa. Wouldn't it just have to be something like they are doing with Namecoin (decentralised DNS)
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- xacaxulu 13y agoHoneypot
- bkurtz13 13y agoDomain registered by FBI
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- swalsh 13y agoYesterday my cousin was found dead. He had committed suicide. It was the end of a long battle he had been waging against himself. Drugs have destroyed this small part of my family, but i'm really glad to see something like the silk road revitalized. I think the sooner we realize how fleeting a battle it is to fight them, the sooner we can place the money where it belongs. My cousin is dead now, but I think my tax money would be better spent helping him kick his habit, than locking him up.
- rhgraysonii 13y agoI've been an active Libertarian for several years now, and just looking at the countless stories I've heard like this leads me to hold the same belief as you do. It truly is tragic the way many people are simply thrown in a cell rather than helped with what is clearly an illness. Addiction itself is not a choice. Using a drug is, but the consequences that follow oftentimes cannot be overcome. I'm sorry for your loss.
- darkarmani 13y ago> this leads me to hold the same belief as you do His belief was that tax money should be spent on rehabilitation instead of the drug war. Shouldn't you be against using tax money for this and instead supporting private charities?
- lettergram 13y agoBeing Libertarian doesn't necessary mean you have to be against all tax. For example (in the Libertarian point of view), taxes should only be used to maintain order, that being said the government should run prisons. However, in the case of drugs a rehabilitation program likely would be cheaper than a drug war and still under the classification of "maintaining order." Since drug users can often be violent, unable to drive, etc. and could cause harm. Therefore, it's actually better and fair to use a small tax for rehabilitation than it is to use prisons to keep drug users locked up. This is according to the Libertarian point of view.. Strictly Libertarians are against tax, however in this case a more middle road can be argued for and be within the Libertarian's view.
- the_watcher 13y agoThis is just an example of the massive waste of resources used up by the drug war (assuming this is what it claims to be, point stands regardless). So the Silk Road was shut down, but all that did was reduce the available supply of the drugs. It did nothing to address the demand side of drugs, which is really what drives everything. All attacking the supply does is make it more lucrative for those who are able to evade law enforcement. There is some role for law enforcement to play in discouraging the supply of drugs (if the society we live in remains one where drug use is considered negative). However, the vast majority of resources should go towards addressing the demand (making people want them less, treatment, etc., I don't mean just arrest all the buyers).
- lettergram 13y agoThey claimed to have caught the Dread Pirate Roberts... but then again who's to say?
- kseistrup 13y agohttp://silkroad6ownowfk.onion/ http://silkroad6ownowfk.onion/
- mkramlich 13y agoThe interesting thing to me is that, in theory, the same kinds of extreme privacy-protecting, anonymity-maximizing measures which can be used to host any kind of Silk Road, or to visit it and use it, can ALSO be used by... wait for it... wait for it... yes the law enforcement folks. In other words, how can you be sure that this new Silk Road 2.0 is not a sting honey pot setup by the FBI itself? I don't buy stuff like that and never will. But if I did, I wouldn't go near anything using the Silk Road name after a seizure/arrest has been publicly documented. Remember, on the Internet, nobody knows if you're a dog. Or a teenager living in your mom's basement in Russia. Or an FBI agent munching on donuts in Washington DC. Etc.
- GhotiFish 13y agoto be honest. When I first read it, I assumed that it was just a rouge organization looking to defraud the ex customers of the old Silk Road. As a black hat, that would of being my first play. The presence of ex Silk Road moderators does a little bit to assuage those fears, but they could be fooled just as any other person. Truly, I would never trust this Silk Road. Then again, I wouldn't of trusted the old Silk Road either.
- yeukhon 13y agoI am serious here too: I don't support the website's initiative. I endorse the technical aspect of it as a way to test whether the design is optimal and achievable, but in no way would I ever support drug dealers.
- nekopa 13y agoAn honest question: Why not?
- yeukhon 13y ago1. I am against illegal drugs. It is up to the society to have a consent whether x drug should be legal or not. For example, marijuana. 2. Liability and safety. It's safer to assume your pharmacist is giving the right drug and the right amount and the right quality. I am all for reducing the cost and I think we should lower the cost whenever possible, but getting through silk road because it's cheaper/easier to get doesn't meet my standard.
- fingerprinter 13y ago> 1. I am against illegal drugs. It is up to the society to have a consent whether x drug should be legal or not. For example, marijuana. Is this only for drugs? If so, why only for drugs? If not, does that mean you want to be governed by popular opinion? I'm actually astounded someone on HN would make this statement so I'm genuinely interested in the rationale.
- bionsuba 13y ago> It is up to the society What is this society that you refer to. Surely it can be the people of the nation, because only 30%-ish of the population votes, so the majority can't be said to be in agreement (I also never recall a nation wide vote on the legality of drugs). Are you referring to politicians' decisions? They are an even smaller part of the overall population and don't even represent the people that they are said to (Money in politics etc). Plus, even if 99% of the entire population were to decide that these drugs are dangerous, why is it then ok to violently stop the 1% from doing something that only harms themselves? If that is just, would it the be ok if 51% of people decided that all soda was dangerous and banned that too? What about cheese burgers, we, as a society, have to stop obesity right? What about cars, which kill more people than drugs ever will? The idea of the morality of democracy is just another version of the might makes right argument.
- conductr 13y agoIs there a place he could run this from and be safe? Like a country without extradition where it would be difficult for US gov to come in and arrest you anyway. The single dumbest thing the last DPR did was continue living in the US
- veemjeem 13y agoI don't remember the exact details, but I don't think that was DPR's mistake. I thought he had ordered some fake passports that were intercepted.
- oscilloscope 13y agoSenator Tom Carper's statement on the launch: “This new website – launched barely a month after Federal agents shut down the original Silk Road -- underscores the inescapable reality that technology is dynamic and ever-evolving and that government policy needs to adapt accordingly. Rather than play ‘whack-a-mole’ with the latest website, currency, or other method criminals are using in an effort to evade the law, we need to develop thoughtful, nimble and sensible federal policies that protect the public without stifling innovation and economic growth. Our committee intends to have that conversation – among others - at our hearing this month on virtual currency.” http://www.hsgac.senate.gov/media/majority-media/chairman-carper-statement-on-the-unveiling-of-the-so-called-silk-road-20-website http://www.hsgac.senate.gov/media/majority-media/chairman-ca...
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- natural219 13y agoThis scares me more than reassures me. Given the US government's history of response to questions like these, I suspect this message will get through, minus the "without stifling innovation" part.
- snitko 13y agoYeah, how about redefining what a criminal is in the first place. Then you don't need to protect the public.
- SteveDeFacto 13y agoSo how do we know that this is not the FBI waiting for people to place orders/post listings so they can arrest them?