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I don't know why this is getting so much media attention as if it's some new innovative concept. Airbnb is just a new marketing platform for these types of list

I don't know why this is getting so much media attention as if it's some new innovative concept. Airbnb is just a new marketing platform for these types of listings. I've subleased two apartments multiple times using Craigslist alone (free, and I can use my judgment to screen for ideal tenants). Sites like HomeAway have done vacation rentals for a long time. Serviced apartments and extended stay hotels have existed for ages, allowing short-term stays and short leases, usually targeted towards corporate employees who are temporarily on assignment or relocating. It's not a new industry at all, but inside the tech echo chamber people want to act like it is so they can pat themselves on the back for their "disruption."

pbreit 13y ago
Yeah, I was going to say that vacation rentals have been around since people lived in caves. The surprise isn't so much that money can be made but that people are rather brazen about breaking lease terms and laws (which I believe are reasonable; who wants an everchanging parade of random, unvetted people traipsing through the hallways?).
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  Most people never really technically lived in caves, its only most artifacts of stone age people that wasn't washed away with time was found in caves. That being said, I'm sure you can find a cave-based Airbnb rental. [1] [1] https://www.airbnb.com/wishlists/stay-in-a-cave https://www.airbnb.com/wishlists/stay-in-a-cave
- tomg 13y ago
  Someone's renting their place out on airbnb or similar in my building (in NYC) and it kinda sucks. Most people are just rude but otherwise uneventful, but some are noisy, some smoke outside my window, some can't figure out how trash works. Some lock themselves out at 4:30am and buzz and bang on my window until I let them in since my buzzer is the only one that works. Not sure what to do.
  - cylinder 13y ago
    Make a fuss with the landlord. The standard lease agreement in NYC requires landlords to be informed of subleases in writing. They can object with a reasonable basis.
    - greenyoda 13y ago
      If someone who I didn't know was banging on my window at 4:30am asking to get into my building, I'd call the cops.
      - tomg 13y ago
        Heh, yeah I mean people do get locked out though sometimes... gotta do the neighborly thing. Calling the LL / Calling the cops are a bit more of a nuclear option that I'm looking for; I just want to find out who's doing it so I can discretely ask them to inform their renters of a few things. I don't want to see airbnb go away :)
- stevenwei 13y ago
  I imagine a major difference is that most vacation rentals are rented out by the owner of the unit, whereas it seems like a lot of Airbnb rentals are being offered by tenants who are under existing rental agreements (which likely stipulate they can't sublease without permission from the landlord).
Irishsteve 13y ago
It makes things a little easier; you can have payments managed by airbnb, bookings, and support
- cylinder 13y ago
  Sure, it's an improvement but it's not disruptive or a game-changer. One thing most NYers don't realize is that if you sublease to someone and there's proof (agreement, payment record etc), they can squat in your place and not pay any rent. You will have to use the courts to evict just as any other landlord must. In NYC this will take up to 8 months. You can't just get the police to throw them out.
  - geebee 13y ago
    I am fascinated with your second comment. I've asked this question on HN before as well, though my focus was on San Francisco rather than NYC. What happens if the airbnb tenant does pay rent, but insists that he or she is now a long term tenant governed by SF landlord-tenant law. Tenant protection laws are very strong in SF, and typically require some kind of "cause" for eviction. If San Francisco courts do not recognize the legality of a short term rental agreement, what would they do with it? I'm not a lawyer at all, these are just questions... but would the courts allow the tenant to remain as a long term tenant? How would the calculate the rent? Would they simply disregard unenforceable provisions and default to existing law? Does anyone know if this has been litigated?
    - pavel_lishin 13y ago
      IANAL, but I think that there is a minimum period of time required before one becomes a long-term tenant - and it's something on the order of a month or three.
      - Arelius 13y ago
        I think that's true. But I think it's much shorter at least in SF. Something on the order of 15 days to a month.
larrys 13y ago
"I don't know why this is getting so much media attention as if it's some new innovative concept." Well for one thing a fancy web 2.0 site [1] and airbnb is filled with pictures of hip looking people and the same place on airbnb just looks better than it would on homeaway. Everything about it (presentation wise) is nicer. Things like that shouldn't matter but they do matter to people. More or less puts a halo around the property being offered. Right now, looking on the homepage at airbnb I see "New York, London, Paris, San Francisco, Sydney, Tokyo" even those city names (in the mind of a browser) will add value. (The halo of those names. Similar to how a watch company wants to hire a famous golfer etc.) [1] Which even I will have to agree gives a better experience or shine to the whole process.
j-g-faustus 13y ago
I think it's similar to eBay: eBay didn't invent "buying and selling stuff", but it was still disruptive e.g. to classified ads in local newspapers. It's a limited form of disruption, but still disruption. Airbnb is potentially disruptive in the same way as early eBay, by providing a larger market (more options for buyers, more customers for sellers), and by inserting themselves as a trusted intermediate (potentially increasing convenience and trust in the marketplace, which can lead to a larger total market - more people engaging in short-term rentals when the process becomes more convenient). One model of technical innovation: Once in a great while there is a major technical innovation, but to become a product in widespread use the 'technical' innovation (inventing a new type of product, say "horseless carriages") needs decades worth of 'process' innovation (making the product simpler and cheaper to produce, e.g. Henry Ford's assembly lines, and making it easier to use, e.g. by standardizing the controls for steering/braking/etc across all cars). In this model, Airbnb is, or could be, a process innovation that makes short-term rentals a viable option for more people. If it succeeds - too early to tell, but looking good so far - it would be a disruption in that sense.

pbreit 13y ago

Yeah, I was going to say that vacation rentals have been around since people lived in caves. The surprise isn't so much that money can be made but that people are rather brazen about breaking lease terms and laws (which I believe are reasonable; who wants an everchanging parade of random, unvetted people traipsing through the hallways?).

seanmcdirmid 13y ago
Most people never really technically lived in caves, its only most artifacts of stone age people that wasn't washed away with time was found in caves. That being said, I'm sure you can find a cave-based Airbnb rental. [1] [1] https://www.airbnb.com/wishlists/stay-in-a-cave https://www.airbnb.com/wishlists/stay-in-a-cave
tomg 13y ago
Someone's renting their place out on airbnb or similar in my building (in NYC) and it kinda sucks. Most people are just rude but otherwise uneventful, but some are noisy, some smoke outside my window, some can't figure out how trash works. Some lock themselves out at 4:30am and buzz and bang on my window until I let them in since my buzzer is the only one that works. Not sure what to do.
- cylinder 13y ago
  Make a fuss with the landlord. The standard lease agreement in NYC requires landlords to be informed of subleases in writing. They can object with a reasonable basis.
  - greenyoda 13y ago
    If someone who I didn't know was banging on my window at 4:30am asking to get into my building, I'd call the cops.
    - tomg 13y ago
      Heh, yeah I mean people do get locked out though sometimes... gotta do the neighborly thing. Calling the LL / Calling the cops are a bit more of a nuclear option that I'm looking for; I just want to find out who's doing it so I can discretely ask them to inform their renters of a few things. I don't want to see airbnb go away :)
stevenwei 13y ago
I imagine a major difference is that most vacation rentals are rented out by the owner of the unit, whereas it seems like a lot of Airbnb rentals are being offered by tenants who are under existing rental agreements (which likely stipulate they can't sublease without permission from the landlord).

Irishsteve 13y ago

It makes things a little easier; you can have payments managed by airbnb, bookings, and support

cylinder 13y ago
Sure, it's an improvement but it's not disruptive or a game-changer. One thing most NYers don't realize is that if you sublease to someone and there's proof (agreement, payment record etc), they can squat in your place and not pay any rent. You will have to use the courts to evict just as any other landlord must. In NYC this will take up to 8 months. You can't just get the police to throw them out.
- geebee 13y ago
  I am fascinated with your second comment. I've asked this question on HN before as well, though my focus was on San Francisco rather than NYC. What happens if the airbnb tenant does pay rent, but insists that he or she is now a long term tenant governed by SF landlord-tenant law. Tenant protection laws are very strong in SF, and typically require some kind of "cause" for eviction. If San Francisco courts do not recognize the legality of a short term rental agreement, what would they do with it? I'm not a lawyer at all, these are just questions... but would the courts allow the tenant to remain as a long term tenant? How would the calculate the rent? Would they simply disregard unenforceable provisions and default to existing law? Does anyone know if this has been litigated?
  - pavel_lishin 13y ago
    IANAL, but I think that there is a minimum period of time required before one becomes a long-term tenant - and it's something on the order of a month or three.
    - Arelius 13y ago
      I think that's true. But I think it's much shorter at least in SF. Something on the order of 15 days to a month.

larrys 13y ago

"I don't know why this is getting so much media attention as if it's some new innovative concept." Well for one thing a fancy web 2.0 site [1] and airbnb is filled with pictures of hip looking people and the same place on airbnb just looks better than it would on homeaway. Everything about it (presentation wise) is nicer. Things like that shouldn't matter but they do matter to people. More or less puts a halo around the property being offered. Right now, looking on the homepage at airbnb I see "New York, London, Paris, San Francisco, Sydney, Tokyo" even those city names (in the mind of a browser) will add value. (The halo of those names. Similar to how a watch company wants to hire a famous golfer etc.) [1] Which even I will have to agree gives a better experience or shine to the whole process.

j-g-faustus 13y ago

I think it's similar to eBay: eBay didn't invent "buying and selling stuff", but it was still disruptive e.g. to classified ads in local newspapers. It's a limited form of disruption, but still disruption. Airbnb is potentially disruptive in the same way as early eBay, by providing a larger market (more options for buyers, more customers for sellers), and by inserting themselves as a trusted intermediate (potentially increasing convenience and trust in the marketplace, which can lead to a larger total market - more people engaging in short-term rentals when the process becomes more convenient). One model of technical innovation: Once in a great while there is a major technical innovation, but to become a product in widespread use the 'technical' innovation (inventing a new type of product, say "horseless carriages") needs decades worth of 'process' innovation (making the product simpler and cheaper to produce, e.g. Henry Ford's assembly lines, and making it easier to use, e.g. by standardizing the controls for steering/braking/etc across all cars). In this model, Airbnb is, or could be, a process innovation that makes short-term rentals a viable option for more people. If it succeeds - too early to tell, but looking good so far - it would be a disruption in that sense.