6 ms·

This is a more general comment about job postings in general - Why are salary ranges so seldom listed. If you look at a lot of leading job boards even the compa

by netcan 13y ago

This is a more general comment about job postings in general - Why are salary ranges so seldom listed. If you look at a lot of leading job boards even the company name isn't listed (recruiters). Isn't salary a basic piece of information that every job listing should have?

redblacktree 13y ago
Do you think there is an opportunity here, to create a job board that _requires_ salary information?
- netcan 13y ago
  No idea if it's enough start a job board but seems to me like requiring the name of the company and a salary range is not a bad requirement for keeping quality up.
  - mattt416 13y ago
    On WFH.io (https://www.wfh.io https://www.wfh.io), we always try to link back to the employer's job posting. Job boards in the UK are mainly populated by recruiters, and it's not until after you submit your CV that you actually find out who's hiring. To me that seems completely ridiculous but is standard procedure here. Also, if the job posting doesn't explicitly mention remote/WFH, then we try to avoid posting the job.
    - lportion 13y ago
      This is true and it is completely ridiculous. I often get recruiters who try to sell me a job based purely on technologies and not what the company actually does. I'll ask them who the company is and they usually wont say, either due to the fact that I haven't sent my CV/resume or they think I am another recruiter that is trying to steal the details.
- jusben1369 13y ago
  I noticed AngelList is doing some cool things here. From their jobs page: Browse Secretly · No Middlemen · See Salary Upfront
  - driverdan 13y ago
    Except many of the salaries listed are such a large range they're practically useless. $75-150k, 0.1-10% equity. WTF?
mhurron 13y ago
They keep it hidden for several reasons, though in reality they boil down trying to pay you as little as possible. -They hope to wow you with the position so you'll accept a pay lower than you wanted. This doesn't work when the salary range is listed up front and is so low you won't bother to respond. -They're going to base their offer on how much you make now. This works when you're trying to move up in your career, they can offer you a little more then you make now but not as much as if you're already getting paid well. Again, they lose this position if they're up front with their range.
- laureny 13y ago
  Good points, but personally, I have never played along with the "We'll pay you just a bit more than what you are making right now". When the question "How much do you make right now?" comes up in an interview, I answer "How much I make right now is irrelevant, here is how much I want if I'll be working for you" (said with more tact, obviously).
  - _sh 13y ago
    "Unfortunately my current employment contract precludes me from discussing my salary. I'm sure you understand and have similar policies yourself. However, a ballpark figure would be north of $[desired-salary]."
    - laureny 13y ago
      That's a great answer which should kill any further question in that area instantly, I'll make sure to remember that. Thanks!
  - redguava 13y ago
    As a hirer, I'll always ask what they make now. But I'll also ask are they happy with that salary. There's no point using it as a basis if they are not, but if they are, it's a good starting point.
    - 13y ago
rmrfrmrf 13y ago
As much as I would love for companies to do this, I don't think it's really to the benefit of either the company or the applicant. While many companies set absolute caps on maximum value that a given position can bring, a person filling that position will likely be tens of thousands of dollars below that cap when they're hired. What that means is that there's a ton of wiggle room for both the applicant and the company to negotiate salary. When you list out a salary without giving any thought as to the applicant, I would imagine that you'd a lot of resumes from people who treat job searches like college applications (reach, backup, safety), while also weeding out potential winners with an arbitrary value on the job listing that could easily fluctuate to accommodate people who fit great with the company but need more than market compensation to sign on. That said, I think that a company should be up front about how much they were looking to spend on a new hire when asked. I remember being e-mailed by a family friend who was looking for a developer. I let him know that I was happily employed and that I wasn't interested in leaving unless the price was right. He e-mailed back saying that he didn't want to talk about salary at all until he was convinced that I was a good fit for the company. Sorry, bud, but I'm not putting myself through 3 months of interview hell just to satisfy my curiosity.
up_and_up 13y ago
Use Angelist. They list ranges etc: https://angel.co/jobs https://angel.co/jobs
- jknightco 13y ago
  I used Angelist to find a job once. Salary said $110-120k. Interviewed. Offered the job on the spot. "Since we're just going into another fundraising round the most we can offer is $80k." Didn't take that job.
  - up_and_up 13y ago
    Hmmm, that would be false advertising. I received an offer within the salary range listed on Angelist so I guess my exp was different.
redguava 13y ago
It's very hard to do for remote jobs. An appropriate salary is relative to the country you live in.
- skrebbel 13y ago
  I never understood this. Shouldn't the salary be relative to the amount of value I add? Two people doing the same work, but one decides to rent a $3000,- apartment in SF and the other lives in North-east Veszprem. Why would a company pay the first guy more? Or the second guy less? Would feel very unfair if you're the second guy.
  - redguava 13y ago
    It's a really complicated thing. I agree the salary should be relative to the amount of value you add. But what a "good salary" is, depends on where you live. If you do an amazing job, and I pay you an amazing amount. That amazing amount could vary depending on your cost of living. I agree in a perfect world that you should get paid the same no matter where you are, and globalisation will probably head in that direction. But so will cost of living balancing out too (if people in lower cost of living countries are earning lots more money, the price of things will go up.... supply/demand). I guess ultimately, when comparing what you pay people, why use the dollar amount as opposed to the benefit to their lives. Shouldn't you be paying everyone an amount that equally benefits them? Why should one person be far greater benefited from their salary? Ultimately it's what you do with the money that matters, not the number on the note.
    - petercooper 13y ago
      Shouldn't you be paying everyone an amount that equally benefits them? Because that's entirely subjective and can't be calculated objectively. Person A in SF might be paying $3000/mo in rent but also has top bands, a lot of popular culture, great shops, and so forth at their front door. These things counteract the lack of much disposable income for them. Person B in Vietnam might pay $200/mo for a house but may also have frequent power cuts, poor access to healthcare, etc.. but the extra money counteracts these negative points for them. This is one of many reasons Westerners get paid colossal salaries to work in places like Iraq or pockets of the Middle East. Cultural and security issues (in varying measures) are compensated for by a higher income.

by netcan 13y ago

redblacktree 13y ago

Do you think there is an opportunity here, to create a job board that _requires_ salary information?

netcan 13y ago
No idea if it's enough start a job board but seems to me like requiring the name of the company and a salary range is not a bad requirement for keeping quality up.
- mattt416 13y ago
  On WFH.io (https://www.wfh.io https://www.wfh.io), we always try to link back to the employer's job posting. Job boards in the UK are mainly populated by recruiters, and it's not until after you submit your CV that you actually find out who's hiring. To me that seems completely ridiculous but is standard procedure here. Also, if the job posting doesn't explicitly mention remote/WFH, then we try to avoid posting the job.
  - lportion 13y ago
    This is true and it is completely ridiculous. I often get recruiters who try to sell me a job based purely on technologies and not what the company actually does. I'll ask them who the company is and they usually wont say, either due to the fact that I haven't sent my CV/resume or they think I am another recruiter that is trying to steal the details.
jusben1369 13y ago
I noticed AngelList is doing some cool things here. From their jobs page: Browse Secretly · No Middlemen · See Salary Upfront
- driverdan 13y ago
  Except many of the salaries listed are such a large range they're practically useless. $75-150k, 0.1-10% equity. WTF?

mhurron 13y ago

They keep it hidden for several reasons, though in reality they boil down trying to pay you as little as possible. -They hope to wow you with the position so you'll accept a pay lower than you wanted. This doesn't work when the salary range is listed up front and is so low you won't bother to respond. -They're going to base their offer on how much you make now. This works when you're trying to move up in your career, they can offer you a little more then you make now but not as much as if you're already getting paid well. Again, they lose this position if they're up front with their range.

laureny 13y ago
Good points, but personally, I have never played along with the "We'll pay you just a bit more than what you are making right now". When the question "How much do you make right now?" comes up in an interview, I answer "How much I make right now is irrelevant, here is how much I want if I'll be working for you" (said with more tact, obviously).
- _sh 13y ago
  "Unfortunately my current employment contract precludes me from discussing my salary. I'm sure you understand and have similar policies yourself. However, a ballpark figure would be north of $[desired-salary]."
  - laureny 13y ago
    That's a great answer which should kill any further question in that area instantly, I'll make sure to remember that. Thanks!
- redguava 13y ago
  As a hirer, I'll always ask what they make now. But I'll also ask are they happy with that salary. There's no point using it as a basis if they are not, but if they are, it's a good starting point.
  - 13y ago

rmrfrmrf 13y ago

As much as I would love for companies to do this, I don't think it's really to the benefit of either the company or the applicant. While many companies set absolute caps on maximum value that a given position can bring, a person filling that position will likely be tens of thousands of dollars below that cap when they're hired. What that means is that there's a ton of wiggle room for both the applicant and the company to negotiate salary. When you list out a salary without giving any thought as to the applicant, I would imagine that you'd a lot of resumes from people who treat job searches like college applications (reach, backup, safety), while also weeding out potential winners with an arbitrary value on the job listing that could easily fluctuate to accommodate people who fit great with the company but need more than market compensation to sign on. That said, I think that a company should be up front about how much they were looking to spend on a new hire when asked. I remember being e-mailed by a family friend who was looking for a developer. I let him know that I was happily employed and that I wasn't interested in leaving unless the price was right. He e-mailed back saying that he didn't want to talk about salary at all until he was convinced that I was a good fit for the company. Sorry, bud, but I'm not putting myself through 3 months of interview hell just to satisfy my curiosity.

up_and_up 13y ago

Use Angelist. They list ranges etc: https://angel.co/jobs https://angel.co/jobs

jknightco 13y ago
I used Angelist to find a job once. Salary said $110-120k. Interviewed. Offered the job on the spot. "Since we're just going into another fundraising round the most we can offer is $80k." Didn't take that job.
- up_and_up 13y ago
  Hmmm, that would be false advertising. I received an offer within the salary range listed on Angelist so I guess my exp was different.

redguava 13y ago

It's very hard to do for remote jobs. An appropriate salary is relative to the country you live in.

skrebbel 13y ago
I never understood this. Shouldn't the salary be relative to the amount of value I add? Two people doing the same work, but one decides to rent a $3000,- apartment in SF and the other lives in North-east Veszprem. Why would a company pay the first guy more? Or the second guy less? Would feel very unfair if you're the second guy.
- redguava 13y ago
  It's a really complicated thing. I agree the salary should be relative to the amount of value you add. But what a "good salary" is, depends on where you live. If you do an amazing job, and I pay you an amazing amount. That amazing amount could vary depending on your cost of living. I agree in a perfect world that you should get paid the same no matter where you are, and globalisation will probably head in that direction. But so will cost of living balancing out too (if people in lower cost of living countries are earning lots more money, the price of things will go up.... supply/demand). I guess ultimately, when comparing what you pay people, why use the dollar amount as opposed to the benefit to their lives. Shouldn't you be paying everyone an amount that equally benefits them? Why should one person be far greater benefited from their salary? Ultimately it's what you do with the money that matters, not the number on the note.
  - petercooper 13y ago
    Shouldn't you be paying everyone an amount that equally benefits them? Because that's entirely subjective and can't be calculated objectively. Person A in SF might be paying $3000/mo in rent but also has top bands, a lot of popular culture, great shops, and so forth at their front door. These things counteract the lack of much disposable income for them. Person B in Vietnam might pay $200/mo for a house but may also have frequent power cuts, poor access to healthcare, etc.. but the extra money counteracts these negative points for them. This is one of many reasons Westerners get paid colossal salaries to work in places like Iraq or pockets of the Middle East. Cultural and security issues (in varying measures) are compensated for by a higher income.