4 ms·

Why not hydrogen? We are running out of helium. And it is in such minuscule amounts the fire safety should not be a concern, and for most of the stuff inside th

Why not hydrogen? We are running out of helium. And it is in such minuscule amounts the fire safety should not be a concern, and for most of the stuff inside the drive hydrogen is chemically inert enough.

JanezStupar 13y ago
Because you at the very least you are going to have problems keeping the hydrogen inside the drive. And there are probably even worse potential issues that my absolute lack of chemistry and materials knowledge can not predict.
pjc50 13y ago
Hydrogen is notoriously good at diffusing through seals, and even through metal. Negative internal pressure does make this harder, but it might be a problem. Handling hydrogen is generally a hassle, so it was probably chosen to make life easier/cheaper at the factory.
- mistercow 13y ago
  >Hydrogen is notoriously good at diffusing through seals So is helium. That's why you can't cash in on the impending global helium shortage by buying up helium tanks.
  - toomuchtodo 13y ago
    We could always just Kickstarter a fund to buy the US government storage facility.
- Osmium 13y ago
  > Hydrogen is notoriously good at diffusing through seals, and even through metal. Exactly this. Efficient hydrogen storage is a huge open research question. Even keeping the helium sealed can be difficult enough.
FooBarWidget 13y ago
Can't people transmute some helium?
- TeMPOraL 13y ago
  They can, it's just very, very, very expensive.
  - marcosdumay 13y ago
    Nah... It should give you even more energy than you put on it, how can it be expensive, instead of a wealth source? Maybe we should should put some more money into helium creation research.
chromaton 13y ago
Perhaps due to hydrogen embrittlement of the metals?
- tcpekin 13y ago
  I don't think that would be a big problem. Hydrogen embrittlement lowers the strength of the material, which I don't think is a major problem with hard drives. They're really never in any load-bearing conditions and you try not to drop them to begin with. A random thought that I had may be that the hydrogen interacts with the various metallic alloys in the platter itself, potentially forming some sort of precipitate that negatively alters the magnetic properties of the platter itself.
Osmium 13y ago
> hydrogen is chemically inert enough In addition to just keeping it stored (as others have mentioned), hydrogen can have huge structural effects. It doesn't matter if it's chemically inert if it ends up diffusing through your metal and forming voids and the like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement
relix 13y ago
We're not running out of Helium, that's a common misconception. The price just doesn't reflect the extraction cost at the moment and it's not being extracted from the natural gas resources it is found in.
- brfox 13y ago
  Do you have a good read for this? I'm always telling people around me that we're running out of helium.
  - relix 13y ago
    The wikipedia article is a good start, follow through to the sources for in depth information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium#Modern_extraction_and_distribution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium#Modern_extraction_and_di... "According to helium conservationists like Robert Coleman Richardson, the free market price of helium has contributed to "wasteful" usage (e.g. for helium balloons). Prices in the 2000s have been lowered by U.S. Congress' decision to sell off the country's large helium stockpile by 2015." I'm a bit skeptical of the quoted numbers, but even if they're a magnitude off there's still plenty left to be extracted. The US alone apparently still has enough proven helium in natural gas reserves for the next 40 years of worldwide consumption, and estimated unproven reserves for the next 40.000 years: "Diffusion of crude natural gas through special semipermeable membranes and other barriers is another method to recover and purify helium.[84] In 1996, the U.S. had proven helium reserves, in such gas well complexes, of about 147 billion standard cubic feet (4.2 billion SCM).[85] At rates of use at that time (72 million SCM per year in the U.S.; see pie chart below) this is enough helium for about 58 years of U.S. use, and less than this (perhaps 80% of the time) at world use rates, although factors in saving and processing impact effective reserve numbers. It is estimated that the resource base for yet-unproven helium in natural gas in the U.S. is 31–53 trillion SCM, about 1000 times the proven reserves."
    - brfox 13y ago
      what a relief, thank you!
    - 13y ago
deelowe 13y ago
Hydrogen damages metal structures.

JanezStupar 13y ago

Because you at the very least you are going to have problems keeping the hydrogen inside the drive. And there are probably even worse potential issues that my absolute lack of chemistry and materials knowledge can not predict.

pjc50 13y ago

Hydrogen is notoriously good at diffusing through seals, and even through metal. Negative internal pressure does make this harder, but it might be a problem. Handling hydrogen is generally a hassle, so it was probably chosen to make life easier/cheaper at the factory.

mistercow 13y ago
>Hydrogen is notoriously good at diffusing through seals So is helium. That's why you can't cash in on the impending global helium shortage by buying up helium tanks.
- toomuchtodo 13y ago
  We could always just Kickstarter a fund to buy the US government storage facility.
Osmium 13y ago
> Hydrogen is notoriously good at diffusing through seals, and even through metal. Exactly this. Efficient hydrogen storage is a huge open research question. Even keeping the helium sealed can be difficult enough.

FooBarWidget 13y ago

Can't people transmute some helium?

TeMPOraL 13y ago
They can, it's just very, very, very expensive.
- marcosdumay 13y ago
  Nah... It should give you even more energy than you put on it, how can it be expensive, instead of a wealth source? Maybe we should should put some more money into helium creation research.

chromaton 13y ago

Perhaps due to hydrogen embrittlement of the metals?

tcpekin 13y ago
I don't think that would be a big problem. Hydrogen embrittlement lowers the strength of the material, which I don't think is a major problem with hard drives. They're really never in any load-bearing conditions and you try not to drop them to begin with. A random thought that I had may be that the hydrogen interacts with the various metallic alloys in the platter itself, potentially forming some sort of precipitate that negatively alters the magnetic properties of the platter itself.

Osmium 13y ago

> hydrogen is chemically inert enough In addition to just keeping it stored (as others have mentioned), hydrogen can have huge structural effects. It doesn't matter if it's chemically inert if it ends up diffusing through your metal and forming voids and the like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement

relix 13y ago

We're not running out of Helium, that's a common misconception. The price just doesn't reflect the extraction cost at the moment and it's not being extracted from the natural gas resources it is found in.

brfox 13y ago
Do you have a good read for this? I'm always telling people around me that we're running out of helium.
- relix 13y ago
  The wikipedia article is a good start, follow through to the sources for in depth information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium#Modern_extraction_and_distribution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium#Modern_extraction_and_di... "According to helium conservationists like Robert Coleman Richardson, the free market price of helium has contributed to "wasteful" usage (e.g. for helium balloons). Prices in the 2000s have been lowered by U.S. Congress' decision to sell off the country's large helium stockpile by 2015." I'm a bit skeptical of the quoted numbers, but even if they're a magnitude off there's still plenty left to be extracted. The US alone apparently still has enough proven helium in natural gas reserves for the next 40 years of worldwide consumption, and estimated unproven reserves for the next 40.000 years: "Diffusion of crude natural gas through special semipermeable membranes and other barriers is another method to recover and purify helium.[84] In 1996, the U.S. had proven helium reserves, in such gas well complexes, of about 147 billion standard cubic feet (4.2 billion SCM).[85] At rates of use at that time (72 million SCM per year in the U.S.; see pie chart below) this is enough helium for about 58 years of U.S. use, and less than this (perhaps 80% of the time) at world use rates, although factors in saving and processing impact effective reserve numbers. It is estimated that the resource base for yet-unproven helium in natural gas in the U.S. is 31–53 trillion SCM, about 1000 times the proven reserves."
  - brfox 13y ago
    what a relief, thank you!
  - 13y ago

deelowe 13y ago

Hydrogen damages metal structures.