4 ms·

Things like this about some developers just piss me off. I'm a freelancer, and really like the idea of a platform like Elance that could easily connect me to cl

by krrishd 13y ago

Things like this about some developers just piss me off. I'm a freelancer, and really like the idea of a platform like Elance that could easily connect me to clients, but all the good clients stay away becuase of people like that.

zabramow 13y ago
As a non-technical founder who had to search far and wide till we found the right freelancer (and then ultimately a full timer), I've wanted to build a site that connected development shops with clients. Interesting to see how much can go wrong in what should be a very simple model.
- dreamfactory 13y ago
  Aligning business reqs and technical implementation is a harder and more expert job than the development part. These sites assume it doesn't exist and leave a client and dev to scrap it out in a zero sum game.
  - mamcx 13y ago
    Yep, is a big part of the problem. This sites don't make clear that is necessary do some specs, mockups, talk about the project, how do feedback, how manage it when it start, what to do about bugs, how report it, etc. When freelancing, is not as simply as just coding, is project management + customer engaging + quality assurance + researching + coding and the most important of all: Mind reading, and guessing (right!) what the hell the customer want. After +17 years I never ever meet a gig where it become easier. And all that baggage cost. Is time consuming. Is impossible to do it right the first time (and everyone expect a quote on time and cost, and hate if is by the hour!).
mkramlich 13y ago
but the reverse is also true. many/most good developers stay away from it because of the bad/cheapskate clients that are rife there. "I have a great idea that will make me millions!!! just need a developer. oh but my budget is tiny, so sorry! and add this and this and this and I need it by next Tuesday." case of a market-for-lemons, plus race-to-bottom
- chii 13y ago
  The client, in that case, should've just had a profit sharing offer, instead of paying a measly some, for the off chance that the app takes off (thus screwing the dev). If the great idea is gonna make millions (for real), the dev would not hesitate to accept the profit sharing option.
  - mkramlich 13y ago
    agreed that's more fair, if the client can only offer low pay, they need to at least give them a piece of the potential equity upside. though in reality, in the general case, all other things being equal, that equity share will probably be worthless. plus in this day and age it's never been easier for a developer to purse a wide range of business venture ideas, and retain full ownership and equity upside. "Gee, I can work on your Big Idea for small pay and 1-10% equity, or, I can work for somebody else for Big Pay and, disconnected from that, either on the side or afterward (during "bench time" or sabbaticals) work on my own thing for ~100% equity." Choices, choices.

by krrishd 13y ago

zabramow 13y ago

As a non-technical founder who had to search far and wide till we found the right freelancer (and then ultimately a full timer), I've wanted to build a site that connected development shops with clients. Interesting to see how much can go wrong in what should be a very simple model.

dreamfactory 13y ago
Aligning business reqs and technical implementation is a harder and more expert job than the development part. These sites assume it doesn't exist and leave a client and dev to scrap it out in a zero sum game.
- mamcx 13y ago
  Yep, is a big part of the problem. This sites don't make clear that is necessary do some specs, mockups, talk about the project, how do feedback, how manage it when it start, what to do about bugs, how report it, etc. When freelancing, is not as simply as just coding, is project management + customer engaging + quality assurance + researching + coding and the most important of all: Mind reading, and guessing (right!) what the hell the customer want. After +17 years I never ever meet a gig where it become easier. And all that baggage cost. Is time consuming. Is impossible to do it right the first time (and everyone expect a quote on time and cost, and hate if is by the hour!).

mkramlich 13y ago

but the reverse is also true. many/most good developers stay away from it because of the bad/cheapskate clients that are rife there. "I have a great idea that will make me millions!!! just need a developer. oh but my budget is tiny, so sorry! and add this and this and this and I need it by next Tuesday." case of a market-for-lemons, plus race-to-bottom

chii 13y ago
The client, in that case, should've just had a profit sharing offer, instead of paying a measly some, for the off chance that the app takes off (thus screwing the dev). If the great idea is gonna make millions (for real), the dev would not hesitate to accept the profit sharing option.
- mkramlich 13y ago
  agreed that's more fair, if the client can only offer low pay, they need to at least give them a piece of the potential equity upside. though in reality, in the general case, all other things being equal, that equity share will probably be worthless. plus in this day and age it's never been easier for a developer to purse a wide range of business venture ideas, and retain full ownership and equity upside. "Gee, I can work on your Big Idea for small pay and 1-10% equity, or, I can work for somebody else for Big Pay and, disconnected from that, either on the side or afterward (during "bench time" or sabbaticals) work on my own thing for ~100% equity." Choices, choices.