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There was a comment in the story that I think is misleading - Attractive women can open locked doors in the male-dominated IT industry. Attractive women can do

by Amadou 13y ago

There was a comment in the story that I think is misleading - Attractive women can open locked doors in the male-dominated IT industry. Attractive women can do that in any industry, it doesn't need to be male dominated. Men are stupid that way (if we weren't stupid that way birth rates would probably be 1/100th of what they are now), you only need a handful of men to have a good probability of finding at least one who is thinking with more than one brain.

beachstartup 13y ago
> (if we weren't stupid that way birth rates would probably be 1/100th of what they are now) uh, no. very attractive women don't have kids with the legions of dorks that give them unearned help throughout their life. in any industry. women aren't stupid. they're actually very smart.
- dopamean 13y ago
  You're ruining the dream bud.
- Amadou 13y ago
  Your assumption does not follow from what I wrote, in fact it is practically the reverse since my point was that any industry is vulnerable. It isn't just "dorks" who give even marginally attractive women special treatment - there are very few categories of men who don't (primarily gay men). Try this experiment out in real life - any time you see a man helping a female stranger with anything consider if he would do the same for a male stranger. The number of times a straight guy will go out of his way for another man who isn't a friend is practically zero. women aren't stupid. they're actually very smart. The idea that women deliberately take advantage of "dorks" sounds vaguely bitter and misogynistic.
  - beachstartup 13y ago
    > there are very few categories of men who don't. yeah, exactly. those are the guys who are getting with the attractive women. specifically, high value men who don't give handouts. also, dorks isn't exclusive to IT. every industry has dorks.
    - gaius 13y ago
      Oh, you're a "PUA". Good luck with that.
      - beachstartup 13y ago
        i'm not really sure what you're referring to, but i'm talking about pretty basic human psychology.
        deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
      - kbenson 13y ago
        I would hardly call not falling over yourself to help a pretty member of the opposite sex purely because of their attractiveness the same as the targeted psychological games pick up artists use. One is manipulation, the other is having some self respect.
  - a3n 13y ago
    > The idea that women deliberately take advantage of "dorks" sounds vaguely bitter and misogynistic. And human. It happens enough that it's a (probably undeserved) stereotype. People are no damn good, regardless of gender. Or at least, enough of them are no good to give a bad name to the rest of us. We suck.
- gaius 13y ago
  Women are people. Some are very smart, some are stupid, in the same proportions as men. For every male IT worker who's been duped by an attractive women, there's a female secretary who thinks her boss is really going to leave his wife for her.
  - beachstartup 13y ago
    i agree - men thinking a commitment/favor/gifts will get them sex is about as stupid as women thinking sex will get them a commitment/favor/gifts. anyone who's ever been in an adult relationship could tell you as much.
    - MrBuddyCasino 13y ago
      > stupid as women thinking sex will get them a commitment/favor/gifts You can't be serious? This happens a lot, I can't imagine how one cannot see it.
      - xerophtye 13y ago
        I believe this was in reference to the girls duped by guys into giving up sex. Where girls think that now that they have had sex, they are bound together. Like that comment about the secretary hoping for the boss to leave his wife
  - ye 13y ago
    > in the same proportions as men Women are actually smarter than men on average, or so IQ tests tell us.
    - icecreampain 13y ago
      That must explain why men are outnumbered in science and business, right?
      - rglullis 13y ago
        Looks like someone need a lesson about standard deviations before making snarky comments.
detcader 13y ago
I think the point was that _because_ men dominate the computer industry, you will have an easier time targeting IT systems for exploitation with this method.
marquis 13y ago
Instead of bringing the conversation down to a question of pretty-woman-duped-the-gullible-man, which isn't productive for anyone, I'm sure this could have been achieved many other ways, e.g 'Leaked new Tesla car' or "Cupcakes downstairs now!". The issue at hand is the security failure, not how the person in question was duped.
- ivix 13y ago
  If you find this topic beneath you, why did you read it? The article is precisely about a specific type of social engineering, which is a worthy topic of interest even if you find it insufficiently cerebral.
  - marquis 13y ago
    I find no fault with the article however many of the comments here are focusing the bait rather than the prize.
nether 13y ago
I doubt a pretty girl would have so many employees bending over backward to help her if they were all women. You're kidding yourself if you think a female-dominated industry wouldn't have handled her more appropriately.
- fleitz 13y ago
  Yes, likely the opposite would occur. I can't comment how how commonplace it is, but having worked in an office with many women there seemed to be a lot of animosity towards the more attractive women from the less attractive women. Could have just been that office. Another friend who ran a support department told me she refused to hire a quite attractive candidate because she felt that the attractive woman would 'distract the men'. My personal feelings were that she liked being the only woman in the department. To be fair she also refused to hire candidates based on their age. We stopped talking shortly after that conversation.
  - walshemj 13y ago
    heard that called "queen bee" syndrome.
    - victorf 13y ago
      But the queen bee is surrounded by female bee laborers.
  - enraged_camel 13y ago
    >>I can't comment how how commonplace it is, but having worked in an office with many women there seemed to be a lot of animosity towards the more attractive women from the less attractive women. Could have just been that office. Nah, this is incredibly common. It goes even further: if an attractive woman is successful, her entire success will be attributed to her attractiveness, rather than her intelligence or skill. It's a major factor that contributes to the glass ceiling they inevitably hit.
    - rosser 13y ago
enraged_camel 13y ago
Forget about attractive women. The focus should be on the fact that in any system or process that needs to be secure, humans are by far the weakest link. The legendary/infamous hacker Kevin Mitnick wrote about his social engineering practices in his book Art of Deception. Everyone here should give it a read.
- reneherse 13y ago
  For an entertaining dramatization of social engineered IT infiltration (that does include tradecraft by femmes fatale), there is 2003's Battlestar Galactica.

by Amadou 13y ago

beachstartup 13y ago

> (if we weren't stupid that way birth rates would probably be 1/100th of what they are now) uh, no. very attractive women don't have kids with the legions of dorks that give them unearned help throughout their life. in any industry. women aren't stupid. they're actually very smart.

dopamean 13y ago
You're ruining the dream bud.
Amadou 13y ago
Your assumption does not follow from what I wrote, in fact it is practically the reverse since my point was that any industry is vulnerable. It isn't just "dorks" who give even marginally attractive women special treatment - there are very few categories of men who don't (primarily gay men). Try this experiment out in real life - any time you see a man helping a female stranger with anything consider if he would do the same for a male stranger. The number of times a straight guy will go out of his way for another man who isn't a friend is practically zero. women aren't stupid. they're actually very smart. The idea that women deliberately take advantage of "dorks" sounds vaguely bitter and misogynistic.
- beachstartup 13y ago
  > there are very few categories of men who don't. yeah, exactly. those are the guys who are getting with the attractive women. specifically, high value men who don't give handouts. also, dorks isn't exclusive to IT. every industry has dorks.
  - gaius 13y ago
    Oh, you're a "PUA". Good luck with that.
    - beachstartup 13y ago
      i'm not really sure what you're referring to, but i'm talking about pretty basic human psychology.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
    - kbenson 13y ago
      I would hardly call not falling over yourself to help a pretty member of the opposite sex purely because of their attractiveness the same as the targeted psychological games pick up artists use. One is manipulation, the other is having some self respect.
- a3n 13y ago
  > The idea that women deliberately take advantage of "dorks" sounds vaguely bitter and misogynistic. And human. It happens enough that it's a (probably undeserved) stereotype. People are no damn good, regardless of gender. Or at least, enough of them are no good to give a bad name to the rest of us. We suck.
gaius 13y ago
Women are people. Some are very smart, some are stupid, in the same proportions as men. For every male IT worker who's been duped by an attractive women, there's a female secretary who thinks her boss is really going to leave his wife for her.
- beachstartup 13y ago
  i agree - men thinking a commitment/favor/gifts will get them sex is about as stupid as women thinking sex will get them a commitment/favor/gifts. anyone who's ever been in an adult relationship could tell you as much.
  - MrBuddyCasino 13y ago
    > stupid as women thinking sex will get them a commitment/favor/gifts You can't be serious? This happens a lot, I can't imagine how one cannot see it.
    - xerophtye 13y ago
      I believe this was in reference to the girls duped by guys into giving up sex. Where girls think that now that they have had sex, they are bound together. Like that comment about the secretary hoping for the boss to leave his wife
- ye 13y ago
  > in the same proportions as men Women are actually smarter than men on average, or so IQ tests tell us.
  - icecreampain 13y ago
    That must explain why men are outnumbered in science and business, right?
    - rglullis 13y ago
      Looks like someone need a lesson about standard deviations before making snarky comments.

detcader 13y ago

I think the point was that _because_ men dominate the computer industry, you will have an easier time targeting IT systems for exploitation with this method.

marquis 13y ago

Instead of bringing the conversation down to a question of pretty-woman-duped-the-gullible-man, which isn't productive for anyone, I'm sure this could have been achieved many other ways, e.g 'Leaked new Tesla car' or "Cupcakes downstairs now!". The issue at hand is the security failure, not how the person in question was duped.

ivix 13y ago
If you find this topic beneath you, why did you read it? The article is precisely about a specific type of social engineering, which is a worthy topic of interest even if you find it insufficiently cerebral.
- marquis 13y ago
  I find no fault with the article however many of the comments here are focusing the bait rather than the prize.

nether 13y ago

I doubt a pretty girl would have so many employees bending over backward to help her if they were all women. You're kidding yourself if you think a female-dominated industry wouldn't have handled her more appropriately.

fleitz 13y ago
Yes, likely the opposite would occur. I can't comment how how commonplace it is, but having worked in an office with many women there seemed to be a lot of animosity towards the more attractive women from the less attractive women. Could have just been that office. Another friend who ran a support department told me she refused to hire a quite attractive candidate because she felt that the attractive woman would 'distract the men'. My personal feelings were that she liked being the only woman in the department. To be fair she also refused to hire candidates based on their age. We stopped talking shortly after that conversation.
- walshemj 13y ago
  heard that called "queen bee" syndrome.
  - victorf 13y ago
    But the queen bee is surrounded by female bee laborers.
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  >>I can't comment how how commonplace it is, but having worked in an office with many women there seemed to be a lot of animosity towards the more attractive women from the less attractive women. Could have just been that office. Nah, this is incredibly common. It goes even further: if an attractive woman is successful, her entire success will be attributed to her attractiveness, rather than her intelligence or skill. It's a major factor that contributes to the glass ceiling they inevitably hit.
  - rosser 13y ago

enraged_camel 13y ago

Forget about attractive women. The focus should be on the fact that in any system or process that needs to be secure, humans are by far the weakest link. The legendary/infamous hacker Kevin Mitnick wrote about his social engineering practices in his book Art of Deception. Everyone here should give it a read.

reneherse 13y ago
For an entertaining dramatization of social engineered IT infiltration (that does include tradecraft by femmes fatale), there is 2003's Battlestar Galactica.