11 ms·

Erik Naggum (1965-2009) RIP

61 points by dmm 17y ago

dmm 17y ago
I knew him mostly through his usenet posts; he always seemed to have interesting opinions, often expressed very bluntly. I really like his essay, "The Long, Painful History of Time": http://naggum.no/lugm-time.html http://naggum.no/lugm-time.html See also local-time, a common lisp package based on his ideas: http://common-lisp.net/project/local-time/ http://common-lisp.net/project/local-time/
sprachspiel 17y ago
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Erik_Naggum http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Erik_Naggum
- TweedHeads 17y ago
  "Whoever decided to use the semicolon to end something should just be taken out and have his colon semified." Thanks Erik, I didn't know you, but you made my life happier for a whole minute :-D
plinkplonk 17y ago
He had a unique online persona - simultaneously nasty and fanatic(about lisp) and brilliant.
- wglb 17y ago
  And earlier about SGML.
- vinutheraj 17y ago
  Look at the United States of America, with its depressingly moronic units instead of going metric, with its inability to write dates in either ascending or descending order of unit size, and with its insistence upon the 12-hour clock, clearly evidencing the importance of the short-term pain threshold and resistance to doing anyone else's bidding. And now the one-time freest nation of the world has turned dictatorship with a dangerous moron in charge, set to attack Iraq to revenge his father's loss. Those who laughed when I said that stupidity is the worst threat to mankind laugh no more; they wait with bated breath to see if the world's most powerful incoherent moron will launch the world into a world war simply because he is too fucking stupid. But what really pisses me off is the spineless American people who fails to stop this madness. Presidents have been shot and killed before. This is a fine example of the nastiness I guess, but it kinda makes sense in a weird sorta way !
kragen 17y ago
Naggum was sort of the anti-pg (actually on Wiki he's described as PaulGraham's EvilTwin): people who loved Lisp were driven away from the community because they couldn't take the abuse, and so comp.lang.lisp became a vicious slime pit. There's more discussion and some minimal confirmation on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8u5dp/erik_naggum_19652009_rip/ http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8u5dp/erik_nagg... Unlike most of the posters there, I'm glad he's gone. The world is a better place without him, and maybe now the Lisp community can begin to heal.
- TomOfTTB 17y ago
  The reality of the world is there's a place for all kinds. The thoughtful speaker needs the passionate militant because not everyone has an open mind. Think Martin Luther King and Malcolm X Moreover, the world needs these type of people on all sides to make sure the truth gets heard. Even if Mr. Naggum wasn't speaking the truth his opinion helped keep minds open to his side of things. Honestly, as annoyed as I get at times by people like him I can also see how it's a noble pursuit. As much as people say they don't care what other's think just about everyone does to some extent. In that way it can't be an easy job to scream what you believe is the truth until people listen. So really people like Mr. Naggum are giving up a large piece of happiness to continue their devotion to what they believe is truth. That's admirable.
  - zimbabwe 17y ago
    Also remember the duality of those two people: Martin Luther King at times called for violence and Malcolm X was mostly a peaceful protestor. It's easier to put them into categories but nobody is so bluntly one way or the other. Just as I hear Paul Graham's name blasted frequently online, for a variety of reasons, I'm certain Naggum inspired as many people as he scared off. Never assume an internet personality is the whole story.
    - smanek 17y ago
      When did MLK call for violence? (I'm not disagreeing (I don't know enough about the topic), just curious).
patrickg-zill 17y ago
Is there any other confirmation of Erik's death?
- pasbesoin 17y ago
  http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8u5dp/erik_naggum_19652009_rip/c0afqzh http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8u5dp/erik_nagg...
- wozer 17y ago
  http://www.open-voip.com/blogs/blog1/2009/06/20/erik-naggum-1965-2009-rip http://www.open-voip.com/blogs/blog1/2009/06/20/erik-naggum-...
sho 17y ago
To announce someone's death in a fucking TWEET is so insulting I actually feel angry. update: Mod me down all you want, twitter fans. I'll be happy to tweet your deaths as well, if I can fit it in between what I had for breakfast and the funny thing my cat just did.
- ramchip 17y ago
  I think you're taking it way too seriously. This is from someone who's never used Twitter. I'd take it less well if he were in my family, but I'm sure they learned the news first.
- cdibona 17y ago
  When my sister died, the reality was that I didn't know everyone that was important to her, so I had to resort to emailing all those she had emailed in a mass mailing she had sent a while back. I also created a web page so that people would find when they searched for her. If twitter had been around, I would have posted there too. Years on, I still get email from old friends of hers who found out via the page and want to chat about her to me.
- rmz 17y ago
  Well, I don't think he would mind. He would mind if someone said something stupid about it ;)
- prodigal_erik 17y ago
  If you somehow prevent significant events like this from appearing on twitter, the net effect is that fewer people are aware of them. Is that the outcome you want?
uriel 17y ago
This is really sad, he was one of the greatest thinkers of the hacker community, certainly up there with pg. This doesn't make him justice, but his rant about XML is one of my favorite rants ever: http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/xml/s-exp_vs_XML http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/xml/s-exp_vs_XML
lisper 17y ago
I keep hearing about how Erik was such a smart guy and how he contributed so much to the Lisp community. I have a serious question for those of you who say that his net influence was positive despite his abrasiveness: other than "The Long, Painful History of Time", a few pithy quotes, and a lot of rants on usenet, what exactly did Erik contribute?
- lisper 17y ago
  Interesting. My question has been downvoted. But it has not been answered.
  - gcv 17y ago
    (I didn't downvote you, but I'll try to answer). I lurked on comp.lang.lisp quite a lot in 1999-2002, and I made a point of reading Erik Naggum's posts on technical topics. Those posts made me feel that I learned something. When I had time, I sometimes read his non-technical posts, too, and most were pretty entertaining, as long as not taken too seriously. He will be missed.
    - lisper 17y ago
      > He will be missed. Yes, I get that. What I'm trying to understand is why. Is it really just the usenet postings, or did he do something else that I'm not aware of?
      - calambrac 17y ago
        I'm only speaking for myself, but that's why I'll miss him. If that's not good enough for you, kindly fuck off.
      - dreish 17y ago
        I think that was all, but to those who fervently believe that there is no language superior to Common Lisp, he gave voice to the ... let's call it intense disappointment, of seeing the overwhelming majority of the rest of the world flock to inferior languages. For everyone who had to suffer through yet another numskull saying "Gosh, it's just too many parentheses", he gave delight by excoriating the syntaxes of other languages. And to those intelligent people who sincerely disagreed with him, he may have looked like just another elitist troll contributing to the intolerant atmosphere that they might believe held back Lisp, but such is the nature of bias, on both sides.
jodrellblank 17y ago
Age ~44? What are the oblique references to his declining health related to? (" I am unable to keep my company in operation for health reasons, but it is one of those things I just cannot give up. Instead of being a commercial undertaking, it is now only a hobby. Until my health improves, which it might never do sufficiently" - http://naggum.no http://naggum.no )
- neuro 17y ago
  ulcerative colitis
neuro 17y ago
if you ever played street basketball you would understand the context of erik's controversial posts. next time you're in ny, head over to west 4th street's basketball court in manhattan - the language is thick and the gestures are threatening, only to be followed up with chilly beer and dubbies. the net is relatively new, most people aren't aware you have to put on 3D glasses.

61 points by dmm 17y ago

dmm 17y ago

I knew him mostly through his usenet posts; he always seemed to have interesting opinions, often expressed very bluntly. I really like his essay, "The Long, Painful History of Time": http://naggum.no/lugm-time.html http://naggum.no/lugm-time.html See also local-time, a common lisp package based on his ideas: http://common-lisp.net/project/local-time/ http://common-lisp.net/project/local-time/

sprachspiel 17y ago

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Erik_Naggum http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Erik_Naggum

TweedHeads 17y ago
"Whoever decided to use the semicolon to end something should just be taken out and have his colon semified." Thanks Erik, I didn't know you, but you made my life happier for a whole minute :-D

plinkplonk 17y ago

He had a unique online persona - simultaneously nasty and fanatic(about lisp) and brilliant.

wglb 17y ago
And earlier about SGML.
vinutheraj 17y ago
Look at the United States of America, with its depressingly moronic units instead of going metric, with its inability to write dates in either ascending or descending order of unit size, and with its insistence upon the 12-hour clock, clearly evidencing the importance of the short-term pain threshold and resistance to doing anyone else's bidding. And now the one-time freest nation of the world has turned dictatorship with a dangerous moron in charge, set to attack Iraq to revenge his father's loss. Those who laughed when I said that stupidity is the worst threat to mankind laugh no more; they wait with bated breath to see if the world's most powerful incoherent moron will launch the world into a world war simply because he is too fucking stupid. But what really pisses me off is the spineless American people who fails to stop this madness. Presidents have been shot and killed before. This is a fine example of the nastiness I guess, but it kinda makes sense in a weird sorta way !

kragen 17y ago

Naggum was sort of the anti-pg (actually on Wiki he's described as PaulGraham's EvilTwin): people who loved Lisp were driven away from the community because they couldn't take the abuse, and so comp.lang.lisp became a vicious slime pit. There's more discussion and some minimal confirmation on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8u5dp/erik_naggum_19652009_rip/ http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8u5dp/erik_nagg... Unlike most of the posters there, I'm glad he's gone. The world is a better place without him, and maybe now the Lisp community can begin to heal.

TomOfTTB 17y ago
The reality of the world is there's a place for all kinds. The thoughtful speaker needs the passionate militant because not everyone has an open mind. Think Martin Luther King and Malcolm X Moreover, the world needs these type of people on all sides to make sure the truth gets heard. Even if Mr. Naggum wasn't speaking the truth his opinion helped keep minds open to his side of things. Honestly, as annoyed as I get at times by people like him I can also see how it's a noble pursuit. As much as people say they don't care what other's think just about everyone does to some extent. In that way it can't be an easy job to scream what you believe is the truth until people listen. So really people like Mr. Naggum are giving up a large piece of happiness to continue their devotion to what they believe is truth. That's admirable.
- zimbabwe 17y ago
  Also remember the duality of those two people: Martin Luther King at times called for violence and Malcolm X was mostly a peaceful protestor. It's easier to put them into categories but nobody is so bluntly one way or the other. Just as I hear Paul Graham's name blasted frequently online, for a variety of reasons, I'm certain Naggum inspired as many people as he scared off. Never assume an internet personality is the whole story.
  - smanek 17y ago
    When did MLK call for violence? (I'm not disagreeing (I don't know enough about the topic), just curious).

patrickg-zill 17y ago

Is there any other confirmation of Erik's death?

pasbesoin 17y ago
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8u5dp/erik_naggum_19652009_rip/c0afqzh http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8u5dp/erik_nagg...
wozer 17y ago
http://www.open-voip.com/blogs/blog1/2009/06/20/erik-naggum-1965-2009-rip http://www.open-voip.com/blogs/blog1/2009/06/20/erik-naggum-...

sho 17y ago

To announce someone's death in a fucking TWEET is so insulting I actually feel angry. update: Mod me down all you want, twitter fans. I'll be happy to tweet your deaths as well, if I can fit it in between what I had for breakfast and the funny thing my cat just did.

ramchip 17y ago
I think you're taking it way too seriously. This is from someone who's never used Twitter. I'd take it less well if he were in my family, but I'm sure they learned the news first.
cdibona 17y ago
When my sister died, the reality was that I didn't know everyone that was important to her, so I had to resort to emailing all those she had emailed in a mass mailing she had sent a while back. I also created a web page so that people would find when they searched for her. If twitter had been around, I would have posted there too. Years on, I still get email from old friends of hers who found out via the page and want to chat about her to me.
rmz 17y ago
Well, I don't think he would mind. He would mind if someone said something stupid about it ;)
prodigal_erik 17y ago
If you somehow prevent significant events like this from appearing on twitter, the net effect is that fewer people are aware of them. Is that the outcome you want?

uriel 17y ago

This is really sad, he was one of the greatest thinkers of the hacker community, certainly up there with pg. This doesn't make him justice, but his rant about XML is one of my favorite rants ever: http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/xml/s-exp_vs_XML http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/xml/s-exp_vs_XML

lisper 17y ago

I keep hearing about how Erik was such a smart guy and how he contributed so much to the Lisp community. I have a serious question for those of you who say that his net influence was positive despite his abrasiveness: other than "The Long, Painful History of Time", a few pithy quotes, and a lot of rants on usenet, what exactly did Erik contribute?

lisper 17y ago
Interesting. My question has been downvoted. But it has not been answered.
- gcv 17y ago
  (I didn't downvote you, but I'll try to answer). I lurked on comp.lang.lisp quite a lot in 1999-2002, and I made a point of reading Erik Naggum's posts on technical topics. Those posts made me feel that I learned something. When I had time, I sometimes read his non-technical posts, too, and most were pretty entertaining, as long as not taken too seriously. He will be missed.
  - lisper 17y ago
    > He will be missed. Yes, I get that. What I'm trying to understand is why. Is it really just the usenet postings, or did he do something else that I'm not aware of?
    - calambrac 17y ago
      I'm only speaking for myself, but that's why I'll miss him. If that's not good enough for you, kindly fuck off.
    - dreish 17y ago
      I think that was all, but to those who fervently believe that there is no language superior to Common Lisp, he gave voice to the ... let's call it intense disappointment, of seeing the overwhelming majority of the rest of the world flock to inferior languages. For everyone who had to suffer through yet another numskull saying "Gosh, it's just too many parentheses", he gave delight by excoriating the syntaxes of other languages. And to those intelligent people who sincerely disagreed with him, he may have looked like just another elitist troll contributing to the intolerant atmosphere that they might believe held back Lisp, but such is the nature of bias, on both sides.

jodrellblank 17y ago

Age ~44? What are the oblique references to his declining health related to? (" I am unable to keep my company in operation for health reasons, but it is one of those things I just cannot give up. Instead of being a commercial undertaking, it is now only a hobby. Until my health improves, which it might never do sufficiently" - http://naggum.no http://naggum.no )

neuro 17y ago
ulcerative colitis

neuro 17y ago

if you ever played street basketball you would understand the context of erik's controversial posts. next time you're in ny, head over to west 4th street's basketball court in manhattan - the language is thick and the gestures are threatening, only to be followed up with chilly beer and dubbies. the net is relatively new, most people aren't aware you have to put on 3D glasses.