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I love the efforts to build these types of resources, I just hope this isn't redundant with Michael Hartl's tutorial. Also, I'm not a believer in TDD, especial

by bstar77 13y ago

I love the efforts to build these types of resources, I just hope this isn't redundant with Michael Hartl's tutorial. Also, I'm not a believer in TDD, especially with beginners. I find it tedious especially when prototyping an app, which I almost always do before starting a non-trivial project. Once my prototype works reasonably well, I do a refactor with good test coverage in an effort to produce production ready code. I'm a huge believer in testing, just not TDD.

mck- 13y ago
While I have become a proponent of TDD and have come to appreciate it in larger projects, I agree and remember the tediousness of it as a beginner.. It is good to inform the beginner of its style and merits, but not to enforce it -- rather let them decide for themselves if it helps them and their team in the long-run; experience is a far superior teacher
- bstar77 13y ago
  I think that as long as the code you commit has full coverage and good quality tests (not only tests to improver coverage) then testing your code after writing it can be equally effective in large projects. I guide many junior developers and find that TDD is just too much to enforce while learning.
pbhjpbhj 13y ago
Do you mean this Ruby on Rails tutorials from Hartl? (http://ruby.railstutorial.org/ruby-on-rails-tutorial-book http://ruby.railstutorial.org/ruby-on-rails-tutorial-book) They seem to be quite RoR specific based on the contents?
dopamean 13y ago
As someone who learned ruby first and then went through Hartl's tutorial I have to agree 100%. I wanted to learn about the framework. All the TDD stuff complicated the process and really slowed me down. I ended up skipping over all the TDD stuff and was able to really get a lot out of it. I fully intend to go back through the tutorial soon to pick up the TDD elements.
wentkenko 13y ago
I'm not sure this series could be redundant as it's free and Michael's videos cost money. Michael's website also looks like one of those classic 2001 sales pitch/squeeze page which makes me doubt the quality of the tutorials.
- bstar77 13y ago
  The web version of hartl's is free. Don't prejudge the content based on the site design, it's as stellar resource.
  - wentkenko 13y ago
    Ah ok, the website I found didn't have any information for the free resource. I don't normally but it's just those squeeze page designs are shit.
gyardley 13y ago
Worse yet, the TDD in that tutorial didn't even use the standard test framework built into Rails - so you're taught from the start to use something non-standard. So irritating. I always recommend the Pragmatic Programmers book for new learners.
- benburton 13y ago
  This is most certainly NOT a bad thing. The vast majority of Rails users prefer RSpec, so it's effectively the standard.
  - jaggederest 13y ago
    With minitest's spec format it's even available by default for ruby 2
dustingetz 13y ago
Zero to employable is a different audience then "program a game for high school kids". I don't like TDD either but it can only help if you're new

by bstar77 13y ago

mck- 13y ago

While I have become a proponent of TDD and have come to appreciate it in larger projects, I agree and remember the tediousness of it as a beginner.. It is good to inform the beginner of its style and merits, but not to enforce it -- rather let them decide for themselves if it helps them and their team in the long-run; experience is a far superior teacher

bstar77 13y ago
I think that as long as the code you commit has full coverage and good quality tests (not only tests to improver coverage) then testing your code after writing it can be equally effective in large projects. I guide many junior developers and find that TDD is just too much to enforce while learning.

pbhjpbhj 13y ago

Do you mean this Ruby on Rails tutorials from Hartl? (http://ruby.railstutorial.org/ruby-on-rails-tutorial-book http://ruby.railstutorial.org/ruby-on-rails-tutorial-book) They seem to be quite RoR specific based on the contents?

dopamean 13y ago

As someone who learned ruby first and then went through Hartl's tutorial I have to agree 100%. I wanted to learn about the framework. All the TDD stuff complicated the process and really slowed me down. I ended up skipping over all the TDD stuff and was able to really get a lot out of it. I fully intend to go back through the tutorial soon to pick up the TDD elements.

wentkenko 13y ago

I'm not sure this series could be redundant as it's free and Michael's videos cost money. Michael's website also looks like one of those classic 2001 sales pitch/squeeze page which makes me doubt the quality of the tutorials.

bstar77 13y ago
The web version of hartl's is free. Don't prejudge the content based on the site design, it's as stellar resource.
- wentkenko 13y ago
  Ah ok, the website I found didn't have any information for the free resource. I don't normally but it's just those squeeze page designs are shit.

gyardley 13y ago

Worse yet, the TDD in that tutorial didn't even use the standard test framework built into Rails - so you're taught from the start to use something non-standard. So irritating. I always recommend the Pragmatic Programmers book for new learners.

benburton 13y ago
This is most certainly NOT a bad thing. The vast majority of Rails users prefer RSpec, so it's effectively the standard.
- jaggederest 13y ago
  With minitest's spec format it's even available by default for ruby 2

dustingetz 13y ago

Zero to employable is a different audience then "program a game for high school kids". I don't like TDD either but it can only help if you're new