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NSA Fallout Thwarts AT&T
- malandrew 13y agoTelecom infrastructure is entirely too important to a region's sovereignty to allow any foreign company to own and operate. I hope AT&T is slowly excluded from every single market outside the United States. They don't deserve to operate anywhere else. Heck, given their complicitness in dicking over their their customers, they don't deserve to operate in the US either.
- lignuist 13y agoI would epect that it is currently the norm for technologically less developed countries to let foreign companies run their telecom infrastructure. But they might get more sensitive in the future and develop further at the same time. They will probably reclaim their infrastructure one day.
- whyenot 13y ago> Telecom infrastructure is entirely too important to a region's sovereignty to allow any foreign company to own and operate. Using the same line of reasoning, should T-Mobile (Deutsche Telekom) be excluded from the United States? That would be a shame, they have done a lot to shake up the U.S. wireless market. A new entrant in Europe might have a similar effect there.
- pmb 13y agoT-mobile is actually officially independent of Deutsche Telekom because the FCC has the same rule.
- whyenot 13y agoI suppose that depends on your definition of "independent." They are a subsidiary of Deutsche Telekom. When T-Mobile USA and MetroPCS merged, the agreement was signed in Bonn, Germany, not Bellevue, Washington.
- pmb 13y agoIt really depends on the FCC's definition, but yeah, I concede the point that they are only just independent enough to make the FCC happy.
- Maakuth 13y agoI wonder if AT&T would be ready for the telecom competition landscape in Europe. At least in Northern Europe, the competition is very fierce and the prices are quite low thanks to that. Looking at US mobile prices, I don't think the competition there is working very well.
- whyenot 13y agoYes, I think they would have a tough time. Then again, maybe they will bring something new to the table.
- bediger4000 13y agoI don't think the competition there is working very well. There isn't meaningful competition anywhere in the USA. Regulatory capture (the famed "revolving door" between the US Federal Government and large corporations) means that major carriers have carved up the USA into territories in which they have a local monopoly. There are other factors, but that's the big one.
- 001sky 13y agoVerizon in particular, but AT&T is from the same lineage (ex Ma Bell). The only other players in this league are the Cable companies and Hollywood. The only reason these industries have not been disrupted...
- malandrew 13y agoPossibly yes. I would imagine that doing so would basically subject AT&T to the Sherman anti-trust act, resulting in having it broken up again like in the 80s.
- sker 13y agoMost of the Latin America mobile market is in the hands of Telefonica (Spain) and America Movil (Mexico): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_network_operators_of_the_Americas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_network_operator...
- praptak 13y ago"Telecom infrastructure is entirely too important to a region's sovereignty to allow any foreign company to own and operate." While I agree with the premise, the conclusion is too strong. I'm ok with foreign companies running telecoms as long as they are heavily regulated - up to the point of full forfeiture of the infrastructure if they screw with the national interest. Mostly because it is not that easy to define 'foreign' and once you do, it is not clear why 'non-foreign' companies would be less likely to screw the region's sovereignty that 'foreign' ones.
- devx 13y agoI would hope so. It's time they learn there are consequences for (literally) selling their user-data en masse to spy agencies.
- dmix 13y agoIndeed. Europe's telecom mega-corporations are perfectly suitable at working with their own local intelligence agencies, then sharing data with the NSA. Why make it ever so slightly easier by letting ATT do it?
- forgottenpaswrd 13y ago"Europe's telecom mega-corporations are perfectly suitable at working with their own local intelligence agencies, then sharing data with the NSA." Exactly, they share data THEY WANT TO SHARE, on their terms. There is a very real and justified need to share information regarding criminals like terrorists, or murders. But NSA scandal is about a different thing, mainly indiscriminate spying of every human being, inside and outside US borders without oversight.
- anigbrowl 13y agoThis is a rather optimistic view, I think. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/01/gchq-europe-spy-agencies-mass-surveillance-snowden http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/01/gchq-europe-s...
- Xylakant 13y agoWith my countries local intelligence agency I have a minuscule, but nonzero chance of having influence over it by the means of elections and some protection by local law. Neither of the two exist when ATT does the collection for the NSA.
- pasbesoin 13y agoGiven my own experiences with AT&T, I find it difficult to find any sympathy for them. I do have some sympathy for increasingly (re)balkanized electronic populations. The Internet, for a time, opened an avenue past local, restrictive controls. Unfortunately, although perhaps inevitably, the U.S. and related players felt compelled to replace them with a global overlord. At which point, balkanization starts to look at least partially useful, again. Hopefully, though, we will not regress simply to state-controlled balkanization. Grow orthogonally, and develop independent networks. Decreasing costs may favor this.
- ogreyonder 13y agoWelp, I'm back from half an hour on Wikipedia reading about "Balkanization"... you use that word a lot. I like it.
- mjallday 13y agoBalkanisation, is a geopolitical term, originally used to describe the process of fragmentation or division of a region or state into smaller regions or states that are often hostile or non-cooperative with one another.
- ufseagull 13y agothanks for pointing that out for him, he certainly would not have read that in the wikipedia article on balkanisation that he just read.
- selmnoo 13y agoIt was more for the benefit of others who may not have read it on Wikipedia. Making a reply in a thread does not always mean you're directly and only replying to the person you're replying to -- it can be more than that, it can be a reply that moves the discussion along, and gives off information and insights to anyone who's reading the comment. Seeing as you're a new HN user, I encourage you to give the 'comments guidelines' page a read: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- stox 13y agoHa Ha! AT&T would sell its mother for a nickel. Glad to see that coming back to bite them in the ass. The old AT&T used to actually care about its customers. The new AT&T simply tolerates them as a revenue source.
- wil421 13y agoI don't know why AT&T is trying to go to Europe again. They bought the company I work for in the 90s for this reason as we have a big foothold in Europe. We were split from them once Ma Bell was forced to split up. Their Europe expansion didn't work out either way. History repeats itself.
- megablast 13y agoIf they don't know what to do, try buying someone.
- adventured 13y agoThe reason for their hunting expedition is the US market is saturated and 'conquered' - split among a duopoly protected by the US Government. (hopefully Softbank can change that, we'll see) They can't buy Verizon, and taking US market share is a very slow process. So an alternative path forward for faster growth is to try to eat international business.
- kps 13y agoIf you've ever dealt with (or worked on something sold to) telcos you'll have noticed that winning customers is simply not something they show any interest in. It's all about increasing ARPU — Average Revenue Per Unit. Of course if you've ever been a telco customer (sorry, unit) you'll have noticed the same thing.
- droopybuns 13y agohistorically low intrest rates. virtually unmatched cash flow. Right now, we are in a brief period of financial conditions where healthy mega companies can do acquisitions that would normally be impossible.
- sker 13y agoHow exactly would AT&T acquire the second largest mobile network operator in the world, who happens to have a similar market cap and apparently larger profits? Obviously it would be a merger, but the article makes it sound like an aquisition. And what could AT&T possibly offer to Vodafone? https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3AVOD&ei=FW91UrjjOqq-igKuVg https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3AVOD&ei=FW91UrjjOqq... https://www.google.com/finance?q=at%26t&ei=EG91UuCSGaX2iwK8Zw https://www.google.com/finance?q=at%26t&ei=EG91UuCSGaX2iwK8Z... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Inc http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Inc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vodafone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vodafone
- justin66 13y agoWhen you phrase the question like that, the answer can only be "debt." I would think antitrust issues would be a bigger obstacle.
- adventured 13y agoI really, really hope European and Asian countries start disrupting a lot of attempted acquisitions and mergers by US companies in response to the spying. One thing everybody in this understands, is money. What's worth more than the NSA? AT&T ($191b market cap), Google ($343b), Apple ($467b), Microsoft ($296b), among others You want to see the all-powerful lobbyists at the biggest companies begin to squeal like pigs and push back against the espionage state and the harm being done by it, start severely hurting their businesses. The politicians will fold very quickly.
- vincie 13y agoThe US is starting to look like China, and AT&T (and other American companies) like Huawei. Can't be trusted, keep at arms length, lips moving so must be lying, has ulterior motives, etc etc
- austinz 13y agoGiven the comparisons to other companies...I wonder if Huawei, ZTE, or any European or Japanese company in recent memory has been explicitly outed for this kind of behavior in the same fashion the American telecoms have. My (very limited) understanding is that before Snowden, these types of accusations were backed mostly by insinuations and conjecture. (For example, Huawei is suspect because it has supposed ties to the Chinese military, not because a security researcher has discovered a clearly nefarious backdoor in a router.)
- Zigurd 13y agoTwo things I recall from my undergrad years: 1. Don't sign up for any studies at McLean 2. Daytona is a database of every phone call, ever (or since there were CDRs) Both were from reliable sources. But heck if I could convince anyone else.
- alan_cx 13y agoAre you suggesting that Europeans treat allies and enemies in the same way? People defending US interests are forgetting that the US is supposed to be an ally to Europe.
- jsmeaton 13y agoGood. Economic backlash is the only backlash that will cause change.
- logn 13y agoPerhaps the NSA would like to comment on exactly how likely a deal is. Inquiring minds want to know.