5 ms·

Like all great schools what makes the students great is selection bias. Waterloo has a great reputation, so it gets the first pick of the best students. The gre

by guyzero 13y ago

Like all great schools what makes the students great is selection bias. Waterloo has a great reputation, so it gets the first pick of the best students. The great graduates give the school a great reputation. Lather, rinse, repeat. (Not that I'm complaining as I was part of the system and have benefited greatly from it. Co-op is a very, very big deal. But the professors and the school itself is not appreciably different from U of T or UBC or wherever)

chollida1 13y ago
I think its a bit more than this though. Their co-op program was, and continues to be, pretty awesome. This, IMHO, is what first got the great students to go there. With university cost only increasing its nice to know you'll be able to pay your way due to co-op.
- aianus 13y ago
  With co-op salaries only increasing it's nice to know the students will be able to pay whatever we feel like charging them -- UW administration
  - mahyarm 13y ago
    UW isn't private, a good chunk of the tuition is subsidized by the Canadian government for all Canadian citizens. On top of that undergraduate student loan interest is also paid while you are studying at the school.
    - aianus 13y ago
      UW may not be private but the pricing is based on supply/demand not costs. For example, a first year student enrolled in Math pays half as much as a first year student enrolled in CS. They both take exactly the same courses in the same rooms at the same times with the same professors. Engineering and CS students subsidize the rest of the school in order to improve the university's rankings. We're just cash cows to them.
mathattack 13y ago
There is a positive cycle that happens, no doubt, but I think it's more than this. McGill also gets great students, but my experience with Waterloo alums has been better.
- eigenvector 13y ago
  Unlike Canada's two other highly reputable schools (U of T and McGill), Waterloo's reputation derives largely from the quality of its graduates over the last few decades, not from the fact that at one time they were the only university in their respective regions. Old money vs. new success. I say this as a U of T grad. The McGill that earned McGill's reputation hasn't existed since people were going around in horse-drawn carriages.
  - mathattack 13y ago
    Funny you should say that about McGill. I had some French colleagues who sent their kids there. I think the reputation is still intact overseas. Your point also suggests that it takes more than reputation to thrive.
pg 13y ago
It's not just how good they are. They have a different attitude from students from elite US universities. More practical, less arrogant. I'm not sure whether it's a Canadian thing or a Waterloo thing though.
- eigenvector 13y ago
  Elite US universities essentially select for hyper-competitive people. If you weren't hyper-competitive at ages 14-17, you won't be getting in. This isn't the case at Canadian schools where basically any talented student can attend a top school provided they aren't inordinately lazy.
- duncanmcdowell 13y ago
  I think it's more of a Canadian thing than a Waterloo thing. Ironically it's the same Canadian conservative attitude that investors often complain about (not shooting for the moon) that is responsible for the more pragmatic, practical attitude of entrepreneurs here. Waterloo is special because it has three great academic institutions and a culture of entrepreneurship that stretches back many years and encompasses everything from textiles to brewery and distillation industries.
  - 9oliYQjP 13y ago
    I just commented and have pretty much the same opinion that you do. I've often wondered if this practical opinion on has anything to do with Canadians having to shovel the snow. Hear me out... In the U.S., there are dramatic weather and natural disasters that bring communities together. Floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, earth quakes. We don't have these extremes. But what we lack for in extreme weather, we make up for in volume. In Canada, we just have snow that has to get shovelled often. That means waking up a few times a week in your neighbourhood to shovel snow and side walks. Folks that don't do it are shamed and pressured into doing it. But even if they hold out, somebody just shovels the damn snow, because we're all the better for it. There is nothing more annoying than walking 90 m down a perfectly shovelled sidewalk and then having to walk 5 m along icy packed snow because some jerk refused to pitch in. With snow, when everybody pitches in their share of effort, entire cities can function. That has a profound impact on how you see government programs. "If I pitch in my bit, and everybody pitches in theirs, our health care/education/transit system can be pretty good". Moreover, when you actually see cities dig out from underneath snow, you debunk the myth that people are lazy. Most people, and a vast majority at that, pitch in and get things going. Again, this contributes a great deal toward our mindset on social programs.
chunky1994 13y ago
I too think it's a bit more. Speaking as a physics major in co-op, the co-op program has taught me (and I'm sure will continue to do so) a great deal in terms of entrepreneurship as well as software. It's taught me a lot of things I wouldn't know about running a company had I not actually been in one/heard people who've started one talking about it. Combined with the people who are here, waterloo is dripping with a sense of vigour that if you go looking for it will send you to great heights. Think about it this way: Your buddies are starting companies, earning many thousands of dollars and changing the world in important areas; are you simply going to sit around and graduate? I think not.

by guyzero 13y ago

chollida1 13y ago

I think its a bit more than this though. Their co-op program was, and continues to be, pretty awesome. This, IMHO, is what first got the great students to go there. With university cost only increasing its nice to know you'll be able to pay your way due to co-op.

aianus 13y ago
With co-op salaries only increasing it's nice to know the students will be able to pay whatever we feel like charging them -- UW administration
- mahyarm 13y ago
  UW isn't private, a good chunk of the tuition is subsidized by the Canadian government for all Canadian citizens. On top of that undergraduate student loan interest is also paid while you are studying at the school.
  - aianus 13y ago
    UW may not be private but the pricing is based on supply/demand not costs. For example, a first year student enrolled in Math pays half as much as a first year student enrolled in CS. They both take exactly the same courses in the same rooms at the same times with the same professors. Engineering and CS students subsidize the rest of the school in order to improve the university's rankings. We're just cash cows to them.

mathattack 13y ago

There is a positive cycle that happens, no doubt, but I think it's more than this. McGill also gets great students, but my experience with Waterloo alums has been better.

eigenvector 13y ago
Unlike Canada's two other highly reputable schools (U of T and McGill), Waterloo's reputation derives largely from the quality of its graduates over the last few decades, not from the fact that at one time they were the only university in their respective regions. Old money vs. new success. I say this as a U of T grad. The McGill that earned McGill's reputation hasn't existed since people were going around in horse-drawn carriages.
- mathattack 13y ago
  Funny you should say that about McGill. I had some French colleagues who sent their kids there. I think the reputation is still intact overseas. Your point also suggests that it takes more than reputation to thrive.

pg 13y ago

It's not just how good they are. They have a different attitude from students from elite US universities. More practical, less arrogant. I'm not sure whether it's a Canadian thing or a Waterloo thing though.

eigenvector 13y ago
Elite US universities essentially select for hyper-competitive people. If you weren't hyper-competitive at ages 14-17, you won't be getting in. This isn't the case at Canadian schools where basically any talented student can attend a top school provided they aren't inordinately lazy.
duncanmcdowell 13y ago
I think it's more of a Canadian thing than a Waterloo thing. Ironically it's the same Canadian conservative attitude that investors often complain about (not shooting for the moon) that is responsible for the more pragmatic, practical attitude of entrepreneurs here. Waterloo is special because it has three great academic institutions and a culture of entrepreneurship that stretches back many years and encompasses everything from textiles to brewery and distillation industries.
- 9oliYQjP 13y ago
  I just commented and have pretty much the same opinion that you do. I've often wondered if this practical opinion on has anything to do with Canadians having to shovel the snow. Hear me out... In the U.S., there are dramatic weather and natural disasters that bring communities together. Floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, earth quakes. We don't have these extremes. But what we lack for in extreme weather, we make up for in volume. In Canada, we just have snow that has to get shovelled often. That means waking up a few times a week in your neighbourhood to shovel snow and side walks. Folks that don't do it are shamed and pressured into doing it. But even if they hold out, somebody just shovels the damn snow, because we're all the better for it. There is nothing more annoying than walking 90 m down a perfectly shovelled sidewalk and then having to walk 5 m along icy packed snow because some jerk refused to pitch in. With snow, when everybody pitches in their share of effort, entire cities can function. That has a profound impact on how you see government programs. "If I pitch in my bit, and everybody pitches in theirs, our health care/education/transit system can be pretty good". Moreover, when you actually see cities dig out from underneath snow, you debunk the myth that people are lazy. Most people, and a vast majority at that, pitch in and get things going. Again, this contributes a great deal toward our mindset on social programs.

chunky1994 13y ago

I too think it's a bit more. Speaking as a physics major in co-op, the co-op program has taught me (and I'm sure will continue to do so) a great deal in terms of entrepreneurship as well as software. It's taught me a lot of things I wouldn't know about running a company had I not actually been in one/heard people who've started one talking about it. Combined with the people who are here, waterloo is dripping with a sense of vigour that if you go looking for it will send you to great heights. Think about it this way: Your buddies are starting companies, earning many thousands of dollars and changing the world in important areas; are you simply going to sit around and graduate? I think not.