6 ms·

Ask HN: What to do in case of GPL license break?

32 points by antocv 13y ago

Hello, What can I do when requesting the source code for a device I own that runs Linux, but the manufacturer is playing dumb and stating they will make the source available when it suits then and later? Doesnt the GPL and other free licenses state it has to be available together with the binaries? Where can I take this issue? Huawei - never buy something from them again.

voltagex_ 13y ago
Which Huawei device? Often their tarballs match several devices but you may need to be psychic to work out which.
dangrossman 13y ago
I looked up a couple Huawei phone manuals on their site, and they all had a written offer to provide the GPL-covered source if you mailed them and paid up to 20 Euros for a CD to be sent to you. Have you contacted them at that address and offered to buy your CD? If they refuse for whatever reason, all you can do is make noise or wait. Only the copyright holder has the right to take any action against a licensee violating the terms of their license.
- antocv 13y ago
  Yes I have contacted them at that address - this is some parts of the email first response "Dear Customer, Thank you for contacting Huawei device. Would you please kindly click the to download online directly. http://www.huaweidevice.com/worldwide/downloadCenter.do?method=toDownloadFile&flay=document&softid=NDcxNzc= http://www.huaweidevice.com/worldwide/downloadCenter.do?meth... Once again thank you for contacting Huawei device. Best Regards. Huawei Device Customer Care Team." They reply by sending me the link to the PDF Written offer. Second email does the same, this time with a screenshot of the download button for the PDF. I tell them again, "Please kindly provide the source code not the pdf." They reply with this "Please kindly note that the package download just the source code, it the exactly one, which is not one code. Please kindly check as per the file according. Once again thank you for contacting Huawei device.". Wtf? Again I insist and this time with google translate to chinese, give me the source code as stated in the written offer. And this seems to be their final answer "The open source is under our technical department to make. Since the procedure is a little more complex, so please kindly be a little patient. We will keep you informed once available." It wouldnt suprise me at all if the source they would put on a CD is tarballs of the vanilla kernel and others, and none of their modifications to it. Basically, whats the point of free software and GPL when I the end user cant anyway do more with this router than if it was proprietary? This is in practice now real life.
  - thaumasiotes 13y ago
    > Again I insist and this time with google translate to chinese, give me the source code as stated in the written offer. You know, the quality of the English they're sending to you might have suggested that you weren't accomplishing much by using Google Translate (they'll be using Baidu Fanyi instead. But yes, google translate really is worthless as a way to communicate in Chinese.)
    - idProQuo 13y ago
      Oddly enough, I've seen Bing Translate work wonders on facebook when it comes to translating Chinese into English. One of my friends posted a huge paragraph in Chinese, and the translation read as correct (if a bit flowery) English. I'm just one data point, but I'd guess that there are definitely good translators out there.
      - thaumasiotes 13y ago
        I actually have quite a bit of experience with facebook's chinese -> english translation... my experience is that it doesn't work. Here's some chinese text that a friend of mine posted to facebook: 好怀念以前在swis的日子，虽然当时在的时候一直抱怨，那也难怪，那时候日子的确很销魂，销魂归销魂，至少那时候大家都在。至此之后，就走了好多同学，也来了很多。这是我两年来最喜欢的一张图片，没有之一。 Here's what Bing Translate makes of it as of today: Well miss the old days at SWIS, although at the time have been complaining about, it's no wonder, when days are ecstasy, ecstasy ecstasy, then at least everyone was. After now, there's a lot of students also came a lot. This is my favorite picture in two years, not one of them. Here is my punctuation-preserving translation (be warned that I do not approach fluency in Chinese; I'm mainly working off of a dictionary and rudimentary knowledge): I remember the days at SWIS fondly[†], even though when there I always complained, that's understandable[†], those days were very overwhelming, but despite the overwhelmingness, at least then everyone was there. By now, so many classmates have left, and many others have come. This is my favorite picture of the last two years[†], without exception. [†] Notes a clause that in my estimation Bing Translate did not screw up. (For those of you who read Chinese, you might notice that my english translation includes a lot of elements that just plain aren't present in the Chinese text. For those of you who don't: that's going to be necessary in any chinese <-> english translation.) The thing I've found Bing Translate and Google Translate most useful for is knowing when some otherwise-nonsensical characters are the standard rendition of a foreign name, which isn't something I'd notice on my own. They can also sometimes recognize slang that isn't present in my dictionaries, but that's of questionable usefulness, since I can't distinguish between "google accurately recognized this badly-documented slang term" and "google's translation is completely unrelated to the original text, which is why that meaning doesn't appear when I look up any of the words".
- chalst 13y ago
  Good advice, one quibble: > Only the copyright holder has the right to take any action against a licensee violating the terms of their license This might not be true. If you can successfully argue that: 1. You bought the hardware because you believed their promise that you would have access to the sources they used, and 2. The value of the device is materially impaired by not having access to the source then you would have (IMO, IANAL) a trade descriptions case. If you want to audit your phone system for security reasons, say, then the above might apply.
  - onestone 13y ago
    It's definitely not true, at least in some countries. For example, France: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2009/09/big-gpl-copyright-enforcement-win-in-paris-court-of-appeals/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2009/09/big-gp... "It's a commonly held belief that only the copyright holder of a work can enforce the license's terms—but that's not true in France. People who received software under the GNU GPL can also request compliance, since the license grants them rights from the authors." After all, the rights of the customer (to receive the source code) are also being violated.
- belorn 13y ago
  If you get a written offer by a company included in a purchase, that counts as a contract. It the same as if they said "2 years warranty" or "24/7 free support", or "free installation", or any other kind of deal. And contract law is contract law. If a company do that in the US, you sue. If they do that in EU, local law might consider it as a criminal offense and threaten the company with large fines and possible jail time.
martey 13y ago
The GPL Violations project works on cases similar to this. You could post to one of their mailing lists for advice/assistance: http://gpl-violations.org/mailinglists.html http://gpl-violations.org/mailinglists.html
- antocv 13y ago
  Thanks
mariuolo 13y ago
gpl-violations.org has a mailing list, perhaps you could ask there.
- antocv 13y ago
  Thanks, I did. Seems Im not alone, a lot of Chinese manufacturers just dont give a shit about copyright in any way shape or form.
  - girvo 13y ago
    That is their M.O., unfortunately. The Dingoo A320 is the most egrarious situation that highlights this lately: it was neat little hardware, that the community ported Linux to (as Dingux). The main company then took Dingux and started selling new hardware running on it, with their modifications, and refused to provide the source. I can't stand it, it makes me so angry, it goes so far against the hacker ethos... sigh.
  - nightcracker 13y ago
    They don't have to, Chinese law generally does not respect copyright.
    - mnw21cam 13y ago
      Unless of course they sell the infringing goods in a jurisdiction that does respect copyright. At that point, the jurisdiction can prevent further sales from that manufacturer.
    - eru 13y ago
      Chinese law as written (!) probably does respect copyright. What you get out of the courts as a foreigner is a horse of a different colour.
      - dspillett 13y ago
        Not just as a foreigner from what I've been told. Apparently it is a problem for Chinese nationals too and it often comes down to "ingratiating" yourself with the court and you'll probably find the copier already has them in pocket from last time. Corruption is endemic in some parts of the Chinese political/legal framework, much more so that what we complain about from our systems over here.
voltagex_ 13y ago
Also, if you can post the FCC or CE ID it may be helpful in looking up more information about the components in the router, the firmware for which may be under the GPL separately.
- antocv 13y ago
  I cant find the FCC or CE ID but this is whats written on the note under it, IMEI: 868555010238909, S/N: K8U5TB9372301411 Its an Huawei LTE CPE E5172s 22
  - voltagex_ 13y ago
    Sorry! You should redact some of the digits of the IMEI.
    - antocv 13y ago
      Why? Is it a secret number? What can somebody do with it?
voltagex_ 13y ago
Sorry, I'll stop posting now. You should also get in the queue with the busybox lawyers - "BusyBox handles enforcement of our license via our fiscal sponsor, Software Freedom Conservancy instead. Please email <gpl@busybox.net> if you believe you've found a violation of BusyBox's license, the GPLv2."
a-nom-a-ly 13y ago
> Doesnt the GPL and other free licenses state it has to be available together with the binaries? Have you read them? No.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
belorn 13y ago
As a consumer, you have a few options available to you depending on where you live. If the manufacturer given you a written offer for source code and then do not follow through, contract law and false advertisement laws is yours to use. This also include if they use wordings like "open source" or "linux" on their website. I would contact nearest consumer protection agency and seek their advice.

thaumasiotes 13y ago

Forgive the double reply; I thought of a much longer example of authentic chinese text. Here's a profile from an online dating website: ---- 虽然年龄不小了，88年属龙，还是希望能找一个各方面都合拍的人，对爱情尚未心死，不考虑随便找个人凑活这种说法，秉承一切以诚为始，以婚姻为终点的大原则，找一个相爱相守相濡以沫的男子。你可以有一点大男子主义，但千万别过头，尊重也是彼此相处融洽的必须品。当然如果你是温文尔雅的阳光宅男，也许会更适合我。我的照片是三星手机自拍的，虽然没有经过PS等人工处理，不过人跟照片还是有点区别，比如痘痘，一点点小疤痕，是照不出来的。我可以做一个居家小女人，也可以在外面努力奋斗，关键看遇到一个怎样的你。对于物质，我有底线要求，但并不拜金。比如年龄超过30岁，还能三无的，我会质疑，这么多年的努力，你都奋斗到哪里去了。毕业也3年了，不像刚毕业时候的懵懂，但希望找一个牵着自己手，带自己走的人的心愿还没有被时间改变。我对名牌没有追求，但对于漂亮的衣服和美食，我抵抗力几乎为0，不月光，是我的大原则。不熟悉我的人，会认为我是一个很强势的人。其实我并不强势，如果条件允许，我也想做一个，上午睡到10点半，下午养猫遛狗弹钢琴的姑娘。我并不热爱工作，骨子里也泛着懒，但生活是现实的，衣食住行等等，无一不逼着现代女性，独立自主，自尊自强。 ---- Here's my translation: --- Even though I'm not young anymore, [born in] 1988, year of the dragon, I still hope I can find a person whose every aspect is in harmony, I have not yet lost hope as to love, I am not considering finding some random guy and joining our lives together, I adhere to the great principle of regarding honesty as a beginning and marriage as the endpoint, I'm looking for a relationship where we love each other, protect each other, and help each other in time of need. You can be a bit of a male chauvinist, but definitely don't overdo it, respect is a necessity for getting along with each other. Of course, if you are a gentle 阳光["sunshine", but that's clearly not the meaning here] stay-at-home, maybe that will be more suitable for me. My picture was taken on a Samsung phone, although it hasn't been photoshopped, there are still some differences between the photo and the person, such as pimples, a tiny scar, [the picture] cannot display those. I can be a housewife, and I can strive mightily outside the home, the key is what kind of you I meet. As to material goods, I have some baseline demands, but I do not worship money. For example, if you're over 30 years old, you cannot have the "three lacks" [I don't know what these are, but I suspect two of them are a car and a house]，I will challenge you, so many years of work, where did all your struggle go. It's been three years since I graduated, I am not like an ignorant girl who just graduated, but the dream of finding a man who will take me walking with him holding my hand has not been changed by time. I don't chase famous brands, but as regards beautiful clothing and delicious food, my powers of resistance are approximately zero, 不月光["not moonlight"; I don't understand this], it is my great principle. Those who do not know me well, will believe I am a very strong person. In fact I am not strong, if circumstances permitted, I would like to be that girl who sleeps in until 10:30 in the morning, and in the afternoon, feeds the cat, walks the dog, and plays the piano. I do not passionately love to work, in my bones I am suffused with laziness, but life is full of reality, clothes food housing work etc etc, there is not one of these things which does not press on the modern woman, independent and striving to stand on her own. --- Here's Bing Translate's version: --- Although not young, 88, the Dragon, is also hoping to find a tune all aspects of people not die of love, regardless of whatever someone come up with this statement, adhering to all originated with sincerity, to the broad principles of marriage is the ending point, look for a love and keep a pair of men. You can have a bit of machismo, but never too much, respect must relate to each other. Of course, if you're gentle sun Otaku, might be better suited for me. My pictures Samsung phone self-timer, although not through manual processing, such as PS, but a little difference to people with photos, such as acne, a little scar, as does not come out. I can do a little woman in the home, it can also be hard on the outside, depending on what kind you have. Material, I have a line, but it's not worshiping. For example, more than 30 years of age, and three, I would question, after so many years of effort, where the hell have you struggled. Graduation is 3 years, not just ignorant when they graduate, but would like to get a hold my hand, take your own wishes have not been changed. I am designer did not pursue, but beautiful clothes and food, my little resistance is 0, no Moonlight, are my principles. People who don't know me will think I am a very strong person. In fact I am not strong, if conditions allow, I want to do, sleep in the morning to 10:30, the girl cat dog to play the piano in the afternoon. I love to work, Pan-lazy bones, but it is the reality of life, clothing, and so on, no one does not force women, independence, self-esteem and self-improvement. --- (edit: I especially like how Bing translated "I do not love to work" as "I love to work". No issues there!)