6 ms·

I'm American, and lived in China for two years. It's common to see things on the street that you don't understand, even for natives, and it's not prudent to tak

by b6 13y ago

I'm American, and lived in China for two years. It's common to see things on the street that you don't understand, even for natives, and it's not prudent to take what you're seeing at face value. There are lots of scams, so one's first instinct is to hang back and protect oneself. Those times when I did get involved to ask if people needed help, it was always somewhat coldly and hurriedly refused, probably because the people I was offering to help feared that I was up to something. At the risk of making a racial/cultural generalization, Chinese people do not trust each other as much as Westerners do. I wish I understood this phenomenon better. And, at least in big cities, there is so much going on, and so many people. Surely this makes bystander effect much worse. I like to help, but when problems happened, it was almost always the smart thing to do to just get out of the way.

seanmcdirmid 13y ago
Sad but true, I concur with this. So many scams going on that I have become desensitized to anything weird in my surroundings. Though if I saw something like the situation posted (gruesome), I'm not sure how I would have reacted. Given that the police/fire department would take too long to arrive, you really have to be prepared to act (not just call 411) if you get involved.
NhanH 13y ago
I'm not Chinese, but I come from another South East Asian country with very similar culture. When I was younger (18-19, not that young either), I remembered driving by two Westerners standing on the sidewalk who were (probably) looking for help. As I wasn't sure if I should stop to help and then couldn't turn back because the street was fairly crowded, I asked my dad later that day if I should have stopped and help. His response: "Let other people more experienced (as in older and has more life experience) than you to help". He didn't say it explicitly, but the subtext was that it was probably a scam of some sort. Adding to the fact that culturally speaking, young adult up to their 30s are still considered "inexperienced", it wouldn't be surprised that the problem isn't just merely bystander effect, but people consciously avoids helping. I do not really know if statistically, there are more scams in those country comparing to with, say the US. But I believe we're way more into gossip of anecdote scams than the West, and that's probably why people do not trust each other.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- asveikau 13y ago
  The video didn't seem all that strange to me. Only weird thing is the amount of stuff pedestrians carry. Otherwise it looks like plenty of "first-world" places I've been to. Edit: I'm not sure why the comment was deleted; I hope the author didn't feel discouraged by any reactions, including mine.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- w1ntermute 13y ago
  > Oddly enough though, Japan has some busy cities too but I suspect the bystander-effect has less power there. But then again, even in the tsunami-aftermath, people remained orderly collecting food & supplies so they are some kind of super-special case. There is an unusually high level of trust between Japanese people. I think the ethnic and cultural homogeneity is the main reason for this. Ethnic Japanese are seen as one big family. On the other hand, anyone who is non-Japanese is permanently excluded from this group. This is responsible for their extremely low levels of immigration.
  - a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
    Japan is nuanced with the whole uchi-soto thing. You see a lot of total indifference to people who don't count. For example, you have large numbers of homeless people struggling to eat helped only by Koreans and Western missionaries.
jason_wang 13y ago
It's really not too long ago during the Cultural Revolution where people are encouraged to sellout others for the greater good of the Party. If I grew up in that culture I would also be afraid to trust others. If my parents grew up under that culture, they may also teach me to just "mind my own business." The bystander problem is very disheartening. But I'm afraid it'll take few generations to shed the mentality.
a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
> Chinese people do not trust each other as much as Westerners do There is an interesting line of thought that high trust societies are caused by out-breeding. The medieval european church forbade cousin marriage for centuries out to something like third cousin. This broke up the clans and arguably made cohesive western nations possible. Today in much of the non-western world first cousin marriage is still normal. I believe most arab marriages are to first cousins. In the places where it's most prevalent you do tend to see clannish behavior and indifference/viciousness to the out-group. Dunno if it's really true, but it does seem to fit various historical developments. With China I think maybe you have to keep in mind what a scarring catastrophe Maoism was. Middle class people and values were systematically purged.
- magicalist 13y ago
  > Today in much of the non-western world first cousin marriage is still normal. I believe most arab marriages are to first cousins First and second cousins, and only in a few countries, and much of the collected data you'll find on the topic is 40-50 years old[1]. But what does that have to do with China? > Dunno if it's really true, but it does seem to fit various historical developments This is a really dangerous line of anthropological reasoning; certainly non-scientific at the very least. [1] http://www.consang.net/index.php/Main_Page http://www.consang.net/index.php/Main_Page has a long bibliography. Unrelated: the site feels a little creepy...I don't totally understand the purpose of having a standalone site for the topic. However, the citations appear legitimate.
  - a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
    > dangerous line of anthropological reasoning Oh no! Thoughtcrime? It's perfectly amenable to science. I just don't happen to know the supporting science well myself.
    - Volpe 13y ago
      Are you saying chinese are predominantly inbred?
speeder 13y ago
I am from Brazil and... helping people here is hard too. I consider every brazillian a potential traitor and backstabber, and anyone that disagreed with me... well...
nostromo 13y ago
In Seattle (Belltown) many years ago there was this woman that me and my friends called "sobbing lady." When you first see her, sobbing and frantic and saying she was robbed, you really want to help her because she seems legit. When you ask her what happened, you start to realize her story makes no sense, and she's either dealing with mental illness or addiction or both. When you see her for the 20th time of course, sobbing and frantic, you realize she's obviously just grifting and you ignore her. I could imagine an outsider determining that we are callus and cold, seeing me and my friends ignore a sobbing old lady crying out for help.

by b6 13y ago

seanmcdirmid 13y ago

Sad but true, I concur with this. So many scams going on that I have become desensitized to anything weird in my surroundings. Though if I saw something like the situation posted (gruesome), I'm not sure how I would have reacted. Given that the police/fire department would take too long to arrive, you really have to be prepared to act (not just call 411) if you get involved.

NhanH 13y ago

I'm not Chinese, but I come from another South East Asian country with very similar culture. When I was younger (18-19, not that young either), I remembered driving by two Westerners standing on the sidewalk who were (probably) looking for help. As I wasn't sure if I should stop to help and then couldn't turn back because the street was fairly crowded, I asked my dad later that day if I should have stopped and help. His response: "Let other people more experienced (as in older and has more life experience) than you to help". He didn't say it explicitly, but the subtext was that it was probably a scam of some sort. Adding to the fact that culturally speaking, young adult up to their 30s are still considered "inexperienced", it wouldn't be surprised that the problem isn't just merely bystander effect, but people consciously avoids helping. I do not really know if statistically, there are more scams in those country comparing to with, say the US. But I believe we're way more into gossip of anecdote scams than the West, and that's probably why people do not trust each other.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

asveikau 13y ago
The video didn't seem all that strange to me. Only weird thing is the amount of stuff pedestrians carry. Otherwise it looks like plenty of "first-world" places I've been to. Edit: I'm not sure why the comment was deleted; I hope the author didn't feel discouraged by any reactions, including mine.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
w1ntermute 13y ago
> Oddly enough though, Japan has some busy cities too but I suspect the bystander-effect has less power there. But then again, even in the tsunami-aftermath, people remained orderly collecting food & supplies so they are some kind of super-special case. There is an unusually high level of trust between Japanese people. I think the ethnic and cultural homogeneity is the main reason for this. Ethnic Japanese are seen as one big family. On the other hand, anyone who is non-Japanese is permanently excluded from this group. This is responsible for their extremely low levels of immigration.
- a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
  Japan is nuanced with the whole uchi-soto thing. You see a lot of total indifference to people who don't count. For example, you have large numbers of homeless people struggling to eat helped only by Koreans and Western missionaries.

jason_wang 13y ago

It's really not too long ago during the Cultural Revolution where people are encouraged to sellout others for the greater good of the Party. If I grew up in that culture I would also be afraid to trust others. If my parents grew up under that culture, they may also teach me to just "mind my own business." The bystander problem is very disheartening. But I'm afraid it'll take few generations to shed the mentality.

a8da6b0c91d 13y ago

> Chinese people do not trust each other as much as Westerners do There is an interesting line of thought that high trust societies are caused by out-breeding. The medieval european church forbade cousin marriage for centuries out to something like third cousin. This broke up the clans and arguably made cohesive western nations possible. Today in much of the non-western world first cousin marriage is still normal. I believe most arab marriages are to first cousins. In the places where it's most prevalent you do tend to see clannish behavior and indifference/viciousness to the out-group. Dunno if it's really true, but it does seem to fit various historical developments. With China I think maybe you have to keep in mind what a scarring catastrophe Maoism was. Middle class people and values were systematically purged.

magicalist 13y ago
> Today in much of the non-western world first cousin marriage is still normal. I believe most arab marriages are to first cousins First and second cousins, and only in a few countries, and much of the collected data you'll find on the topic is 40-50 years old[1]. But what does that have to do with China? > Dunno if it's really true, but it does seem to fit various historical developments This is a really dangerous line of anthropological reasoning; certainly non-scientific at the very least. [1] http://www.consang.net/index.php/Main_Page http://www.consang.net/index.php/Main_Page has a long bibliography. Unrelated: the site feels a little creepy...I don't totally understand the purpose of having a standalone site for the topic. However, the citations appear legitimate.
- a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
  > dangerous line of anthropological reasoning Oh no! Thoughtcrime? It's perfectly amenable to science. I just don't happen to know the supporting science well myself.
  - Volpe 13y ago
    Are you saying chinese are predominantly inbred?

speeder 13y ago

I am from Brazil and... helping people here is hard too. I consider every brazillian a potential traitor and backstabber, and anyone that disagreed with me... well...

nostromo 13y ago

In Seattle (Belltown) many years ago there was this woman that me and my friends called "sobbing lady." When you first see her, sobbing and frantic and saying she was robbed, you really want to help her because she seems legit. When you ask her what happened, you start to realize her story makes no sense, and she's either dealing with mental illness or addiction or both. When you see her for the 20th time of course, sobbing and frantic, you realize she's obviously just grifting and you ignore her. I could imagine an outsider determining that we are callus and cold, seeing me and my friends ignore a sobbing old lady crying out for help.