8 ms·

Both my parents are 60+. My mom is perfectly fine using Ubuntu on my old x61 for email, browsing, and YouTube. To be fair she could probably replace it with a

• pwnna 13y ago
  This is really interesting. I would love to see if there is anything about this generation of people not liking technology changes.
  • wting 13y ago
    My brother has become proficient at using Windows, so his switching costs are higher. He didn't want to learn the Linux equivalent of task manager, adding startup applications, updating / installing software. Also he's in finance so 99% of his work is spent in Excel. By comparison my parents are rudimentary users of technology, and thus their switching costs are low. As long as there is Firefox / Chrome they're ok. Some Chinese sites still depend on ActiveX but they've been replaced with Flash for the most part.
    • sandGorgon 13y ago
      This is the real reason. Excel. There is simply no replacement for it. If there was, the usage of Linux would double within days.
      • pavs 13y ago
        I don't use excel in professional level so I don't know much about it. Is there a vast difference between MS Excel and Linux (OSS) equivalent, or something like Google docs?
        • sandGorgon 13y ago
          severely so. Again, it's not about the technical merits and demerits - but I would daresay its around the VBS + XLSX compatibility issue. In fact, my personal opinion is that Libreoffice should abandon PPT and Word - both with adequate online equivalents - and go all out only on Excel. There is simply no equivalent for Excel on Linux or Mac. Photoshop + Excel on Linux would be it's killer applications.
          • deleted 13y ago
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        • Ecio78 13y ago
          Definitively. Especially if you work in finance there are many products that integrate with Excel (i.e. Bloomberg apps), modules, pre-created formulas, books teaching financial "programming" with Excel etc.. Then I don't know if macros/programming in Calc can be seen as equivalent to VBA (and relevant integrations) in Excel. BUT, having said that,I think there are tons of users that could use Calc for their basic calculations (I worked in a couple of banks and I think probably just 5-10% of users used it as "powerusers" and I suspect less than half of them used functions/code that have no equivalent in Calc)
        • deleted 13y ago
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        • girvo 13y ago
          My mother recently had me adjust the Gantt chart she created in Excel. She works for KPMG as an accountant. There's a large difference, unfortunately, but it's the edge cases that the difference lies in. Some professions rely on those edge cases exclusively however.
      • Mikeb85 13y ago
        There are better things than Excel, Gnumeric for example. The main issue is that there is no drop in replacement for Excel. There are spreadsheets that do calculations, statistics, scripts, etc... better, but there aren't any that can perfectly replicate Excel and perfectly read XLSX files right now...
        • Herald_MJ 13y ago
          Are you sure Gnumeric is better than Excel? Excel is really stupid fast. There are old stories of the Excel team at Microsoft being the most performance-obsessed group around. Excel really is a very great product. Can you demonstrate equivalent performance with Gnumeric?
          • Mikeb85 13y ago
            Haven't seen any benchmarks, but tests have proven that Gnumeric is more accurate, and it certainly has more functions (especially for statistics). It's also extensible with Python (and I've seen plugins for other languages), which IMO is preferable to VBA. Python of course also has some pretty good statistic and scientific computing libraries, which are quite performant... If you're really performance obsessed, a spreadsheet isn't really the best solution anyway...
            • Herald_MJ 13y ago
              > If you're really performance obsessed, a spreadsheet isn't really the best solution anyway... I agree with this, but tell that to the millions of non-programmers the world over (including almost exclusive use in the finance sector) who use spreadsheets for, well, programming. I have heard it's not unusual for huge spreadsheets that take upwards of 15 minutes just to regenerate all the calculations and VBA macros it contains. Yes, this is horrible, but it's absolutely ubiquitous and so performance does matter. VBA support also matters for backwards compatibility with these monolithic, battle-tested behemoth spreadsheets. Python support is a great extra, but drop-in VBA support is the feature Gnumeric needs to find widespread use. I can't fathom what you mean by "more accurate". Accuracy is binary. Are you saying Excel is inaccurate?
  • javajosh 13y ago
    It is an interesting phenomena, but it's pretty easy to explain: the barrier for an older person is "using a computer". The barrier for a younger person is "using linux". The older person doesn't know or care about the operating system - they are going to use the computer (or not) for very specific things. The younger person, who is probably more of a power user, is going to be more "enmeshed" with the details of the OS, and find it harder to give up certain things. Heck, the last time Windows was my main OS was in 2007 or so, and I still think in terms of "Alt-Tab" with the Command button replacing Alt (since I'm in OSX). (And the never-disappearing menu bar, and the inability to tab between windows, and the fact that the maximize button is broken, still bugs me).
    • ams6110 13y ago
      In OSX you tab between apps with Command-Tab, you tab between windows (within an app) with Command-`
      • javajosh 13y ago
        I'm aware of this, thanks. But it's a distinction that isn't in windows.
    • bkamapantula 13y ago
      -> the barrier for an older person is "using a computer". The barrier for a younger person is "using linux". Interesting, I never thought this way.
    • null_ptr 13y ago
      You're right. I'm sure it's no dumb luck Microsoft and Apple try to get their products into classrooms. Getting those young minds used to their designs and specific ways of doing things, setting them as lifetime customers. Who here doesn't have a handful of things they like simply because they have a childhood fondness of them?
    • nitrogen 13y ago
      It's funny; ten years ago the explanation was exactly the opposite. "Maybe young people can pick up Linux, but there's no way my grandma could ever figure it out." I'm inclined to believe that both are post hoc rationalizations of a phenomenon whose true cause is entirely unrelated.
• jrs99 13y ago
  if you have a paper to write or something, some younger people i've seen, they've really gotten accustomed to Word and Powerpoint. If you're not an expert on the one program you need that's only on Windows, I think you can get comfortable quickly with Linux without missing anything.
  • skyebook 13y ago
    As much as I cringe to say this, you can get into a pretty decent groove with Word as far as footnotes/endnotes go. I remember in College hating the knowledge that I was using Word but being able to fly through citations pretty quickly without losing my train of thought as I wrote.
    • jrs99 13y ago
      is it because you got used to using Word or because you found Word better? I'm pretty dependent on Photoshop and Illustrator. Most likely because I've used them for so long. I get really frustrated using GIMP. I figure that's the frustration most people feel when they switch to Linux... that one program that you're so productive and "automatic" in is no longer the same.
      • mkmkmmmmm 13y ago
        It must be getting used to it; I tried to use Word recently and ended up so frustrated that I almost switched to writing a layout script and making a pdf via Ruby. But other people use Word just fine so it must not be as shit as I think it is.
        • eru 13y ago
          (La)TeX is a half-decent language to write layout scripts in. That's mostly because of the good libraries available. (The language itself sucks a bit. It was never really meant for general computation, and it shows.)
          • 13y ago
• shuzchen 13y ago
  You should keep an eye on Mozilla's Shumway (https://github.com/mozilla/shumway https://github.com/mozilla/shumway). I recently installed it as an add-on to the firefox browser on my Android Tablet (Galaxy Tab 2 7) and have had luck with a few flash sites.
  • thefreeman 13y ago
    Why would you need to do that? Android tablets run flash?
    • erichurkman 13y ago
      My reason of interest? Many things on the internet still rely on Flash, but Adobe has historically showed that they are not capable of delivering secure software, based on the number of exploits in Flash, Reader, etc.
    • shuzchen 13y ago
      Adobe has officially stopped supporting flash on Android. The last version you can still install flash on is 4.0, and while you can still sideload the apks in higher versions they get extremely buggy (as they do on my Galaxy Tab).
• bchjam 13y ago
  My dad's 60+ as well. I've had him use Ubuntu on an older laptop when his newer one was broken (several times now). He only uses music players & browsers (he uses stock trading websites, so needs java & flash plugins). He says he likes it but always goes back to Windows when he can.
  • keithpeter 13y ago
    Just a suggestion: next time try Xubuntu with one bottom panel. Sufficiently close to XP/Win7 interface for ingrained responses. You could be very cheeky and set the RedmondXP theme in XFCE4 just as a joke.
• torbjorn 13y ago
  Similar experience. Mom is 55. Very non technical person, she learned how to send text messages a month ago. Nevertheless, my dad set up the computer in their house with Ubuntu two years ago and she's been using it for email and web browsing ever since.
• trentmb 13y ago
  Your brother is 25 and has shit to do. I'm sure that once he's old and retired he'll be glad to have learning a new system to take up his time.
  • piratejon 13y ago
    I wanted to voice my concurrence with the sentiment ensconced in the rudeness you are probably being downvoted for: I am in my twenties, generally operate from the perspective of one who thinks he "has shit to do" (in fact I use that very phrase frequently to characterize my obligations and commitments), and don't see myself having time to learn a new tool, method, or technique every time I have a need to express myself, whether professionally or personally. I don't believe this attitude is uncommon and is probably worth taking into consideration by those who would persuade people like your brother and me to use new things. Such as node.js.
    • jrs99 13y ago
      it's a strategy that Ubuntu should use, i think... that "killer app" strategy.
      • wildgift 13y ago
        The killer app is gvim and ctags.
    • trentmb 13y ago
      Were you trying to be anything other than condescending?
    • _random_ 13y ago
      Node.js is just JS running on server. I would rather invest in learning some strong functional language. The more different high-level _paradigms_ you learn in your twenties - the better.
  • fit2rule 13y ago
    25 and no time to learn something new? You're doing life wrong.
• mataug 13y ago
  My mom 50+, No technical knowledge, uses ubuntu for email, youtube, and general browsing, and occasionally makes presentations. My colleagues at work, Programmers, aren't able to get out of Windows, even though they are just writing python. They would rather stick with the pain of having to use git in a crappy console, and suffer loads of pain when shell-ing into ec2 linux boxes, Than learn a new UI and file-system
  • cyborb 13y ago
    That's what drives me craziest about programming in windows, the freak'n console is awful
    • dredmorbius 13y ago
      Among the first things I wanted to find when I bought and paid for (yes) Windows NT ... over 15 years ago now. I'd heard it was all multi-user and powerful like Unix. The terminal _sucked_. It was the same crappy DOS box I'd seen since, well, DOS days and Win3.1. That lead me on an exploration of MKS, UWIN, Cygwin, and finally, Red Hat, over the course of a few months. And I realized Linux Didn't Suck. Another few months and I wiped NT off my hardrives and repartitioned with RH. Never looked back.
    • mkmkmmmmm 13y ago
      That's what I never got about Windows and especially Windows devs. How can you get anything done with all that clicking and no unix tools?
      • astrobe_ 13y ago
        IDEs and Stockholm syndrome.
        • zafodbeeblebrox 13y ago
          Haha yep
        • 13y ago
• carl-platt 13y ago
  My Dad has been begging me to install Ubuntu on his MacBook Air. I think it's time I did.
  • bdamm 13y ago
    It has been my experience that running Linux natively on Apple hardware is a huge pain.
    • mfincham 13y ago
      Anecdote: I've been running Debian Stable on a Macbook Air I bought in 2011 since then, it's been great (and doubly great since Wheezy, the support is basically 100%).
    • fit2rule 13y ago
      My experience runs 100% opposite to yours: I got a new Macbook Pro, installed Ubuntu on it, and have been running it just fine alongside OSX for months now, with no issues. In fact its running so well that I no longer need my Linux workstation PC, which I .. might .. just turn into a Steambox..
    • girvo 13y ago
      Not anymore. It's flawless for myself (iMac from late 2011, MacBook Air from 2009).
  • rsl7 13y ago
    but why? if you paid for Apple hardware, OS X is ten times nicer than ubuntu.
    • RexRollman 13y ago
      That's a matter of opinion.
      • rsl7 13y ago
        OS X has better support for its own hardware, like the trackpad. How can that be a matter of opinion?
• pcx66 13y ago
  My parents are both 50+. My Dad's a Sales guy and my mom is a high school teacher in a primarily non-English, government school. They use Ubuntu for all their tasks. Mostly includes Browsing(YouTube, Epapers), talking to my sister in the States (Hangouts), Media (music, photos and videos) and LibreOffice. The stuff they discover sometimes amazes me, all along I've been believing this would be too hard for them.
• frigg 13y ago
  Nobody has mentions the UI. I know Ubuntu has come a long way but Windows' UI is much, much nicer. It may sound silly but I think it's a valid reason for some. The same reason why one would buy an iPhone over another less expensive (or non-apple) phone, you pay for looks (it may not be the only reason of course but it is part of it). People like nice-looking stuff, and older folks seem to care (or notice) less these things, especially if they're not technologically inclined.
  • lawn 13y ago
    I have to refute that statement in regards of Windows 8 on desktop. The amount of confusion in that UI, even for me, is a handful. If we ignore the metro side of things, I agree with you however.
    • frigg 13y ago
      >If we ignore the metro side of things Yes, absolutely. My start screen is an empty, blue wall with a large tile taking me to the desktop. Despite the start screen I like everything else about the system.
      • hexasquid 13y ago
        The new one has a setting that boots to desktop, if that helps any.
      • gnur 13y ago
        That's a shame, the start screen is very useful place to organize shortcuts to your most often used tasks. I use oblytile to generate custom shortcuts and I have (organized by location / purpose) 12 shortcuts to start a ssh/rdp session to a remote server. It also has shortcuts to spotify/outlook/xencenter/vsphere and gmail.
      • _random_ 13y ago
        But that is just your Start menu expanded to take the whole screen... Were you removing all the items from Start menu on older versions of Windows as well?
• girvo 13y ago
  > I tried to convert my 25 year old brother as well, but he switched back to Windows after a month. Despite being the youngest, he hated learning a new system and preferred Windows. I've found this myself. My Grandfather loves Windows 8, my mother absolutely hates it. My Grandfather loves his new Android phone, my mum hates Android and refuses to use anything other than her iPhone. Younger people may be more "tech-savvy", but at least anecdotally for myself they are the ones who hate change the most. Perhaps it's because the older crowd have fewer preconceptions about how things are "supposed" to work?
  • _random_ 13y ago
    "Despite being the youngest, he hated learning a new system and preferred Windows" which does not mean he was wrong, he just made his choice.
    • girvo 13y ago
      I agree, just FYI. That was a quote, not something I said.
  • keithpeter 13y ago
    Perhaps your sample of younger people are just short of time and have the applications they want working in the way they want? In defence of 'younger people' generally I hand my X60 Thinkpad running Debian Wheezy with the default Gnome 3 desktop around sometimes in class. It does not take them long to work out how to access Firefox and a maths video on YouTube after suggesting they press the windows key. They generally find the trackpoint harder to deal with than the actual interface so I take a USB mouse in with me.
    • girvo 13y ago
      My grandfather just concluded a NZD$40mm business deal while I was in NZ visiting him. If anyone's short of time, it's him! :)
• bobdvb 13y ago
  Mum is in her 60s and I installed debian for her some years ago when I replaced her Win2k machine that I got second hand for her. She has been mostly happy, I found running printers to be less fun than it could be and the linux photo management apps aren't always that great. Recently gave her a thinkpad with Mint and she is still happy.
• keithpeter 13y ago
  Your mother wants access to her content. Same with my partner Ruth. She is happily using CentOS (with the Stella repositories for multimedia) on an X61s with Ultrabase for surfing and watching videos and DVDs. It gets the job done, and I had the Thinkpad around anyway when her iBook stopped working. Does your brother need access to specialised software (e.g. having to hand in College/University work in some Windows specific system or using business applications)?
• kamjam 13y ago
  I'm actually considering buying a tablet for an elderly relative, an iPad would have been ideal were is not for the fact that it cannot stream flash, they watch news clips and things and so that is a deal breaker... so Android it is!