4 ms·

Apple maintains many of the same positions, yet they are loved. Apple actually uses a lot of open source, yet rarely contribute back. Microsoft Research contrib

Apple maintains many of the same positions, yet they are loved. Apple actually uses a lot of open source, yet rarely contribute back. Microsoft Research contributes a ton to computing research. Note: writing this in Google Chrome on my Macbook

slaven 13y ago
Well Google Chrome as of last year was based on Apple's open source Webkit so that's not quite true.
- mkonecny 13y ago
  Webkit comes from KDE's KHTML project which was GPL'ed. Apple was required to open-source it.
  - general_failure 13y ago
    WebKit is not GPL. Its admixture of BSD and LGPL.
- curiousDog 13y ago
  Webkit isn't Apple's open source. It was already open source when KDE started it.
  - scott_karana 13y ago
    KDE didn't start "WebKit" per se. Apple definitely deserves some credit for what they did, but you're right: Konqueror originated it all.
mudge 13y ago
I don't love Apple for some of the same reasons I don't love Microsoft.
mturmon 13y ago
Embrace, extend, extinguish is a tactic more aggressive than using open source but not contributing much back. Maybe you've forgotten how strong the MS dominance became in the late 1990s. Governments (US and EU) were going after MS -- not just aspects of their privacy agreements (as with Google today), but threatening to divide MS into separate corporations. Friendships were broken when people changed sides. This was before the current tumult caused by the internet and mobile computing. It kind of seemed, back then, that things were going to just continue as they had been, only more so, and everything would be built on top of Windows. This reaction (over-reaction?) to MS, then, comes from historically-rooted fear. It's a powerful emotion, and sometimes it can be correct. You know, maybe there's an argument that the Unix world has a persecution complex, because there have been license and freedom debates since the very beginning. Here's an illustrative fragment: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/10/origins-of-geek-plates/ http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/10/origins-of-geek...
nemothekid 13y ago
Define rarely? What about Webkit, LLVM, and CUPS?
- brass9 13y ago
  > Define rarely? What about Webkit, LLVM, and CUPS? These were already established opensource technologies. Apple has improved these technologies. But LLVM, Webkit or CUPS would exist even if there was no Apple.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - parasubvert 13y ago
    Erhm, "established" yes, but with a very small base. LLVM was an academic project - Apple hired Lattner to form a team and fund the development of the project. WebKit was not established, Apple forked it from KHTML and it would not be the dominant engine without Apple. Let's also not forget that BSD would be a rare sight at this point if not for Apple.
mindcrime 13y ago
Apple maintains many of the same positions, yet they are loved. There are more than a handful of us who despise Apple, and for mostly the same reasons we despise Microsoft. They pimp their closed-source, proprietary, locked-down bullshit, and it's "walled garden", closed-off ecosystem just like MS pimp theirs. I have no use for either of them. Note: written using Chrome on Fedora Linux.
PhasmaFelis 13y ago
These days, Apple is probably more hated than Microsoft. Not as much as MS was back in the day, but more than modern, sheepish-looking Microsoft. I gotta say it weirds me out when people assert that everyone loves Apple, because it happens a lot; almost as often as people go on vitriolic rants against everything Apple-related.
- epsylon 13y ago
  > These days, Apple is probably more hated than Microsoft. Perhaps, but the HN sample population is still biased favorably towards Apple.
  - JanezStupar 13y ago
    I deem myself biased towards Microsoft, i.e. I would prefer to work for Microsoft over Google, Apple, Facebook, et al. I use Microsoft products (alongside OSS, Apple, Google,...) and quite like what they are doing in the last years. I find .NET very good for what it is meant for, etc. And I think that while there are some MS haters around here. There are not nearly as many as die hard MS fans would have us believe.

slaven 13y ago

Well Google Chrome as of last year was based on Apple's open source Webkit so that's not quite true.

mkonecny 13y ago
Webkit comes from KDE's KHTML project which was GPL'ed. Apple was required to open-source it.
- general_failure 13y ago
  WebKit is not GPL. Its admixture of BSD and LGPL.
curiousDog 13y ago
Webkit isn't Apple's open source. It was already open source when KDE started it.
- scott_karana 13y ago
  KDE didn't start "WebKit" per se. Apple definitely deserves some credit for what they did, but you're right: Konqueror originated it all.

mudge 13y ago

I don't love Apple for some of the same reasons I don't love Microsoft.

mturmon 13y ago

Embrace, extend, extinguish is a tactic more aggressive than using open source but not contributing much back. Maybe you've forgotten how strong the MS dominance became in the late 1990s. Governments (US and EU) were going after MS -- not just aspects of their privacy agreements (as with Google today), but threatening to divide MS into separate corporations. Friendships were broken when people changed sides. This was before the current tumult caused by the internet and mobile computing. It kind of seemed, back then, that things were going to just continue as they had been, only more so, and everything would be built on top of Windows. This reaction (over-reaction?) to MS, then, comes from historically-rooted fear. It's a powerful emotion, and sometimes it can be correct. You know, maybe there's an argument that the Unix world has a persecution complex, because there have been license and freedom debates since the very beginning. Here's an illustrative fragment: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/10/origins-of-geek-plates/ http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/10/origins-of-geek...

nemothekid 13y ago

Define rarely? What about Webkit, LLVM, and CUPS?

brass9 13y ago
> Define rarely? What about Webkit, LLVM, and CUPS? These were already established opensource technologies. Apple has improved these technologies. But LLVM, Webkit or CUPS would exist even if there was no Apple.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- parasubvert 13y ago
  Erhm, "established" yes, but with a very small base. LLVM was an academic project - Apple hired Lattner to form a team and fund the development of the project. WebKit was not established, Apple forked it from KHTML and it would not be the dominant engine without Apple. Let's also not forget that BSD would be a rare sight at this point if not for Apple.

mindcrime 13y ago

Apple maintains many of the same positions, yet they are loved. There are more than a handful of us who despise Apple, and for mostly the same reasons we despise Microsoft. They pimp their closed-source, proprietary, locked-down bullshit, and it's "walled garden", closed-off ecosystem just like MS pimp theirs. I have no use for either of them. Note: written using Chrome on Fedora Linux.

PhasmaFelis 13y ago

These days, Apple is probably more hated than Microsoft. Not as much as MS was back in the day, but more than modern, sheepish-looking Microsoft. I gotta say it weirds me out when people assert that everyone loves Apple, because it happens a lot; almost as often as people go on vitriolic rants against everything Apple-related.

epsylon 13y ago
> These days, Apple is probably more hated than Microsoft. Perhaps, but the HN sample population is still biased favorably towards Apple.
- JanezStupar 13y ago
  I deem myself biased towards Microsoft, i.e. I would prefer to work for Microsoft over Google, Apple, Facebook, et al. I use Microsoft products (alongside OSS, Apple, Google,...) and quite like what they are doing in the last years. I find .NET very good for what it is meant for, etc. And I think that while there are some MS haters around here. There are not nearly as many as die hard MS fans would have us believe.