4 ms·

I don't understand. I use lots of hobby stuff with USB ports. I have to lookup the vendor ID to make it read write in linux by default. Presumably getting a p

I don't understand. I use lots of hobby stuff with USB ports. I have to lookup the vendor ID to make it read write in linux by default. Presumably getting a proper ID makes this pain point go away from consumers somehow? What's the gain I don't understand it?

cdawzrd 13y ago
Many hobby things with USB ports are using the default VID/PID from the chip vendor (generally FTDI's USB-to-Serial converter chips, or the on-chip USB controller of Atmel/Microchip/etc's microcontrollers). Using your own VID/PID allows you to write and distribute a driver that can be tied to your gadget rather than using a generic driver. Widely distributing products (even if they are "hobby stuff") that re-use the microcontroller's default VID/PID is also usually against the license agreement with the chip vendor and can lead to problems down the road.
- Kliment 13y ago
  OSHW devices can get a PID from Openmoko's range, and closed source devices can either go fuck themselves or buy a PID from http://www.mcselec.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=92&option=com_phpshop&Itemid=1 http://www.mcselec.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&f... The USB-IF can go fuck themselves either way. There is no place for them in this world, and I hope they disappear as soon as reasonably possible.
Sanddancer 13y ago
A proper ID makes it much easier for the consumers. By having a proper ID, the OS can search its database of drivers, and if that fails, try to download from a source such as Windows Update. Also, a lot of this could very well be trying to avoid the pain of the Bad Old Days of pre-plug and play DOS, where you had to manually set things like interrupts and I/O ports, and hope and pray that your new device didn't conflict with something important. For example, many an oldschool game had dire warnings about not running the sound card autodetect if you had things like scsi cards, because the conflicts were near inevitable and pretty catastrophic.
- nraynaud 13y ago
  I always found so stupid they just don't put a bit of flash and the drivers in it. Or just an URL in the device descriptor.
  - marcosdumay 13y ago
    Wow. If you tought a memory stick pretending that it's a keyboard was a serious enough problem, just wait untill somebody thinks loading random drivers from the device (or the web!) is a good idea. It will happen, that's a near certainty. Some day, somebody will think that's a good idea, and since it's easy, the scheme will get widely used.
    - nraynaud 13y ago
      If you don't trust the web or the device, where will you get the driver? Why did you plug the device in the first place?
      - comex 13y ago
        Perhaps the Linux kernel you already have installed, which presently has drivers for just about everything included and developed in a centralized, controlled fashion... Whether this is actually better probably depends on your point of view. But loading (somehow OS-neutral?) drivers from a fixed store on the device seems like a great way to be stuck with out-of-date binary blobs forever.
        Sanddancer 13y ago
        Then again, there are cases where developers have and will release driver source out of tree so that new devices are supported on day one, or to avoid the politics of the linux kernel. Having a flash with a driver, even if it is an older one, could be a godsend for things like nics, where you can very easily end up in a catch-22 type situation.
        nraynaud 13y ago

cdawzrd 13y ago

Many hobby things with USB ports are using the default VID/PID from the chip vendor (generally FTDI's USB-to-Serial converter chips, or the on-chip USB controller of Atmel/Microchip/etc's microcontrollers). Using your own VID/PID allows you to write and distribute a driver that can be tied to your gadget rather than using a generic driver. Widely distributing products (even if they are "hobby stuff") that re-use the microcontroller's default VID/PID is also usually against the license agreement with the chip vendor and can lead to problems down the road.

Kliment 13y ago
OSHW devices can get a PID from Openmoko's range, and closed source devices can either go fuck themselves or buy a PID from http://www.mcselec.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=92&option=com_phpshop&Itemid=1 http://www.mcselec.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&f... The USB-IF can go fuck themselves either way. There is no place for them in this world, and I hope they disappear as soon as reasonably possible.

Sanddancer 13y ago

A proper ID makes it much easier for the consumers. By having a proper ID, the OS can search its database of drivers, and if that fails, try to download from a source such as Windows Update. Also, a lot of this could very well be trying to avoid the pain of the Bad Old Days of pre-plug and play DOS, where you had to manually set things like interrupts and I/O ports, and hope and pray that your new device didn't conflict with something important. For example, many an oldschool game had dire warnings about not running the sound card autodetect if you had things like scsi cards, because the conflicts were near inevitable and pretty catastrophic.

nraynaud 13y ago
I always found so stupid they just don't put a bit of flash and the drivers in it. Or just an URL in the device descriptor.
- marcosdumay 13y ago
  Wow. If you tought a memory stick pretending that it's a keyboard was a serious enough problem, just wait untill somebody thinks loading random drivers from the device (or the web!) is a good idea. It will happen, that's a near certainty. Some day, somebody will think that's a good idea, and since it's easy, the scheme will get widely used.
  - nraynaud 13y ago
    If you don't trust the web or the device, where will you get the driver? Why did you plug the device in the first place?
    - comex 13y ago
      Perhaps the Linux kernel you already have installed, which presently has drivers for just about everything included and developed in a centralized, controlled fashion... Whether this is actually better probably depends on your point of view. But loading (somehow OS-neutral?) drivers from a fixed store on the device seems like a great way to be stuck with out-of-date binary blobs forever.
      - Sanddancer 13y ago
        Then again, there are cases where developers have and will release driver source out of tree so that new devices are supported on day one, or to avoid the politics of the linux kernel. Having a flash with a driver, even if it is an older one, could be a godsend for things like nics, where you can very easily end up in a catch-22 type situation.
      - nraynaud 13y ago