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A lot of the commenters here seem to misunderstand this change. You can still easily run Java applets in Firefox 24 and beyond, you just need to click the red

A lot of the commenters here seem to misunderstand this change. You can still easily run Java applets in Firefox 24 and beyond, you just need to click the red lego block in the upper left corner and allow it. [1] It's much less strict than in Chrome (on OS X), where Java doesn't run at all anymore. [1] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-to-enable-java-if-its-been-blocked https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-to-enable-java-if-i...

Silhouette 13y ago
You can still easily run Java applets in Firefox 24 and beyond, you just need to click the red lego block in the upper left corner and allow it. I've had multiple calls in the past week from Java users who didn't know that and just thought the page in question had stopped working. Your idea of "easily" and theirs are very different. It's much less strict than in Chrome, where Java doesn't run at all anymore. I've spent much of this morning testing applets in Chrome. In fact, I've got one running right now, and I just confirmed that Chrome is up-to-date. Perhaps you've misunderstood something?
- kristofferR 13y ago
  Yeah, it's true that lot of the sites still using Java hasn't been updated with the correct instructions about how to enable it in FF 24 yet - and they should fix that as soon as possible of course. Still, it's a much easier thing for normal users to figure out than how to update Java (which they must do quite regularly to get Java to run at all). I did a little Googling and it turns out that Java still runs in Chrome on Windows, it's just banned on OS X.
  - lambda 13y ago
    Yep, banned on OS X, kind of frustrating since I need to use Java for work occasionally, and when I click on the link and it redirects after opening in Chrome I need to go back, copy and paste the link into Firefox.
  - Silhouette 13y ago
    Yeah, it's true that lot of the sites still using Java hasn't been updated with the correct instructions about how to enable it in FF 24 yet - and they should fix that as soon as possible of course. Unfortunately, the applets I work on at the moment run on embedded web servers in network-enabled devices. You can't just roll out a quick update to this software every time Mozilla or Oracle break things.
    - Tobu 13y ago
      If you were deploying web servers on embedded devices without planning for easy and painless upgrades, joke's on you. That's terrible for your client's security.
      - Silhouette 13y ago
        Some of those clients' security involves (among other things) firewalled private networks, biometric access controls overseen by armed guards, and a requirement to provide complete systems free of charge for several months of testing and auditing before any new software roll-out is approved. There is no such thing as easy and painless upgrades in that kind of environment, and that is by design. You don't exactly want the patient records in your healthcare systems or the performance monitoring tools with access to all of the traffic on your telecoms infrastructure or the card processing systems at your bank to be accessible on the public WiFi, after all.
        nknighthb 13y ago
        These are the exact opposite of the kinds of places you would expect an untested Firefox update to show up. You are being inconsistent. Is it a tightly-controlled environment or not?
        Silhouette 13y ago
        The environment in which these devices exist and the environment in which the machines used to access them exist are not necessarily the same. Obviously they will be connected in some way, but it is perfectly rational to want to apply security updates to staff computers that might encounter software or data from external sources but which might also be used to access in-house systems that are tightly controlled.
  - jtheory 13y ago
    From what I've read, Java isn't banned from Chrome on OS X, but it doesn't work because OS X Java 7 is 64-bit only and Chrome is 32-bit only.
- belorn 13y ago
  Are those actually users, or developers/testers who run test suits on their products and noticed a change?
  - Silhouette 13y ago
    They are actually users, and those users paid a very large amount of money for very expensive equipment that happens to use Java applets as part of its remote management interface.
    - nknighthb 13y ago
      Did any of that money go to Mozilla or any other organization seeking to advance and secure the internet for the vast majority of people who did not waste money on overpriced products from a company that doesn't want to take responsibility for its poor judgement and inflexibility?
      - Silhouette 13y ago
        Please take your obvious trolling somewhere else. Not all software that runs in web browsers was written in the last year or two, after HTML5 and CSS3 and all the related new technologies became viable options for doing heavily interactive graphics on web sites. For many years before that, tools like Flash and Java applets were the only games in town, and a lot of production software with many years of development behind it that is still widely useful was built using those tools.
        nknighthb 13y ago
        > your obvious trolling You're not helping your case at all. Accept responsibility for supporting your customers, and stop lashing out at others for not doing it for you.
        Silhouette 13y ago
        We are supporting our users. The point is that in this case we shouldn't have to. The problem is an entirely artificial one of Mozilla's creation, and no support from anyone should ever have been necessary.
johnchristopher 13y ago
> You can still easily run Java applets in Firefox 24 and beyond, you just need to click the red lego block in the upper left corner and allow it. [1] Allow me to disagree and to tell you what happened last weekend: Last Sunday I had a call from my stepfather who "couldn't run the website to order agro food" anymore. This website runs a Java applet to manage agro food orders on-line and the code isn't signed (it's a small structure). He tried to understand what was going on with the warning before clicking "ok/yes/run". He googled the warning and unfortunately ended up installing malwares from ads running on some PC help website/forums that promised to fix "2 just found vulnerabilities": he thought that was related since the warning actually preventing him from accessing his "working-fine-yesterday" website seemed to be about security and vulnerabilities in the plug-in. He then tried to update Java but canceled it at the end of the process because the window with the Java propaganda ("it powers 3 billions of applications, your car, your website, etc.") looked too much like the one with malwares from before and those didn't fix the problem (not being able to access his website). When I finally could go to his house to fix it I realized what had happened. It is definitely not user-friendly. It was working before and in his eyes Mozilla made it not working anymore. edit: typo and grammar
- kristofferR 13y ago
  Java actually installs malware (the Ask toolbar) unless you are careful enough to deselect it during the installation/update process.
  - johnchristopher 13y ago
    There was a bunch of other crap: a lollipop promotion app, a trojan and internet explorer settings changed. Funny, but he didn't installed the Ask toolbar :). I did when uninstalling/reinstalling Java and clicking a little bit too fast :). Hopefully it's not as tedious to remove as a trojan.
  - sigzero 13y ago
    Uh no. That is not "malware". Unwanted software yes but not malware.

Silhouette 13y ago

You can still easily run Java applets in Firefox 24 and beyond, you just need to click the red lego block in the upper left corner and allow it. I've had multiple calls in the past week from Java users who didn't know that and just thought the page in question had stopped working. Your idea of "easily" and theirs are very different. It's much less strict than in Chrome, where Java doesn't run at all anymore. I've spent much of this morning testing applets in Chrome. In fact, I've got one running right now, and I just confirmed that Chrome is up-to-date. Perhaps you've misunderstood something?

kristofferR 13y ago
Yeah, it's true that lot of the sites still using Java hasn't been updated with the correct instructions about how to enable it in FF 24 yet - and they should fix that as soon as possible of course. Still, it's a much easier thing for normal users to figure out than how to update Java (which they must do quite regularly to get Java to run at all). I did a little Googling and it turns out that Java still runs in Chrome on Windows, it's just banned on OS X.
- lambda 13y ago
  Yep, banned on OS X, kind of frustrating since I need to use Java for work occasionally, and when I click on the link and it redirects after opening in Chrome I need to go back, copy and paste the link into Firefox.
- Silhouette 13y ago
  Yeah, it's true that lot of the sites still using Java hasn't been updated with the correct instructions about how to enable it in FF 24 yet - and they should fix that as soon as possible of course. Unfortunately, the applets I work on at the moment run on embedded web servers in network-enabled devices. You can't just roll out a quick update to this software every time Mozilla or Oracle break things.
  - Tobu 13y ago
    If you were deploying web servers on embedded devices without planning for easy and painless upgrades, joke's on you. That's terrible for your client's security.
    - Silhouette 13y ago
      Some of those clients' security involves (among other things) firewalled private networks, biometric access controls overseen by armed guards, and a requirement to provide complete systems free of charge for several months of testing and auditing before any new software roll-out is approved. There is no such thing as easy and painless upgrades in that kind of environment, and that is by design. You don't exactly want the patient records in your healthcare systems or the performance monitoring tools with access to all of the traffic on your telecoms infrastructure or the card processing systems at your bank to be accessible on the public WiFi, after all.
      - nknighthb 13y ago
        These are the exact opposite of the kinds of places you would expect an untested Firefox update to show up. You are being inconsistent. Is it a tightly-controlled environment or not?
        Silhouette 13y ago
        The environment in which these devices exist and the environment in which the machines used to access them exist are not necessarily the same. Obviously they will be connected in some way, but it is perfectly rational to want to apply security updates to staff computers that might encounter software or data from external sources but which might also be used to access in-house systems that are tightly controlled.
- jtheory 13y ago
  From what I've read, Java isn't banned from Chrome on OS X, but it doesn't work because OS X Java 7 is 64-bit only and Chrome is 32-bit only.
belorn 13y ago
Are those actually users, or developers/testers who run test suits on their products and noticed a change?
- Silhouette 13y ago
  They are actually users, and those users paid a very large amount of money for very expensive equipment that happens to use Java applets as part of its remote management interface.
  - nknighthb 13y ago
    Did any of that money go to Mozilla or any other organization seeking to advance and secure the internet for the vast majority of people who did not waste money on overpriced products from a company that doesn't want to take responsibility for its poor judgement and inflexibility?
    - Silhouette 13y ago
      Please take your obvious trolling somewhere else. Not all software that runs in web browsers was written in the last year or two, after HTML5 and CSS3 and all the related new technologies became viable options for doing heavily interactive graphics on web sites. For many years before that, tools like Flash and Java applets were the only games in town, and a lot of production software with many years of development behind it that is still widely useful was built using those tools.
      - nknighthb 13y ago
        > your obvious trolling You're not helping your case at all. Accept responsibility for supporting your customers, and stop lashing out at others for not doing it for you.
        Silhouette 13y ago
        We are supporting our users. The point is that in this case we shouldn't have to. The problem is an entirely artificial one of Mozilla's creation, and no support from anyone should ever have been necessary.

johnchristopher 13y ago

> You can still easily run Java applets in Firefox 24 and beyond, you just need to click the red lego block in the upper left corner and allow it. [1] Allow me to disagree and to tell you what happened last weekend: Last Sunday I had a call from my stepfather who "couldn't run the website to order agro food" anymore. This website runs a Java applet to manage agro food orders on-line and the code isn't signed (it's a small structure). He tried to understand what was going on with the warning before clicking "ok/yes/run". He googled the warning and unfortunately ended up installing malwares from ads running on some PC help website/forums that promised to fix "2 just found vulnerabilities": he thought that was related since the warning actually preventing him from accessing his "working-fine-yesterday" website seemed to be about security and vulnerabilities in the plug-in. He then tried to update Java but canceled it at the end of the process because the window with the Java propaganda ("it powers 3 billions of applications, your car, your website, etc.") looked too much like the one with malwares from before and those didn't fix the problem (not being able to access his website). When I finally could go to his house to fix it I realized what had happened. It is definitely not user-friendly. It was working before and in his eyes Mozilla made it not working anymore. edit: typo and grammar

kristofferR 13y ago
Java actually installs malware (the Ask toolbar) unless you are careful enough to deselect it during the installation/update process.
- johnchristopher 13y ago
  There was a bunch of other crap: a lollipop promotion app, a trojan and internet explorer settings changed. Funny, but he didn't installed the Ask toolbar :). I did when uninstalling/reinstalling Java and clicking a little bit too fast :). Hopefully it's not as tedious to remove as a trojan.
- sigzero 13y ago
  Uh no. That is not "malware". Unwanted software yes but not malware.