4 ms·

I would take things a step further. For instance: "Shouldn't it be a place to drift, to think, to read, to meet new people, and to work at whatever inspires yo

I would take things a step further. For instance: "Shouldn't it be a place to drift, to think, to read, to meet new people, and to work at whatever inspires you?" Should it be? Perhaps it's time we reevaluated what college is supposed to be about. Given the skyrocketing costs of a college education, not to mention the opportunity costs of the 4 years spent there, maybe we need to think of the "investment" in a college education as precisely that: something to be taken quite seriously. I wouldn't want my child to debt-finance a startup, to the tune of several hundred thousand dollars, just so he could "drift, think, read" and so forth. So why is it ok that he does so for college? College is the last great chance to "drift" in life before one has to grow up and get serious. Sure. But it's also the most pressure-free environment in which to build the foundation for the rest of one's life. It's a huge investment, literally and figuratively, to waste aimlessly. Use college wisely. Not every second has to be a grind, but on the other hand, I don't think over-grinding is the issue for most of our country's college students. Have some fun in college, yes. Expose yourself to new ideas and cool things. Great. But don't treat the experience as a four-year vacation from the real world. I don't mean to come across as a heartless 'tiger parent' in this comment. But these romantic notions of college strike me as increasingly antiquated. They're luxurious fantasies that many of us can't afford to nurse.

glesica 13y ago
If by "drift", we mean "get drunk and go to football games" then I am right there with you, not something I want my kid to focus on. But if by "drift" we mean explore the world and think about what it means to live in it, then I can't disagree with you more. That kind of drifting IS an investment. It may not make one wealthy, but it will likely go a long way toward making one happy, and it can improve society immeasurably. The social implications of college seem to get lost in the debate on HN, and really everywhere to some extent. We don't send our kids to college simply for their own good, we do it also for the good of society, which is why, in the past, people saw fit for society to cover most of the cost. > But these romantic notions of college strike me as increasingly antiquated. They're luxurious fantasies that many of us can't afford to nurse. But why? As a nation we are "wealthier" than we have ever been, and productivity has skyrocketed in the last 100 years. Why is it, then, that we are actually losing ground and every day we hear that we can no longer "afford" things that we, presumably, could once afford? The retirement age is being pushed ever higher while, at the same time, students are under pressure to enter the work force sooner. This is not the economy we signed up for.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- VLM 13y ago
  "every day we hear that we can no longer "afford" things that we, presumably, could once afford?" Look at the hyper conformity of the average consumer. I'd pay anything for health (insurance co exec and hospital exec smile) I'd pay anything for my kids to get a good job, and rich peoples kids used to get great jobs, and also used to get an education, therefore education must be required for great jobs, so I'll pay anything for my kids vocational educational training (university execs rub hands together in glee at idea of multigenerational 10% annual tuition increases) I'd pay anything to live in a nice safe location (sellers and commissioned real estate agents and commissioned mortgage brokers/bankers jump up and down with excitement at a new sucker) There are a couple things in common. Suckers who see the expenditure as a universal, unarguable good, and entrenched players doing the ogliopoly thing by purchasing .gov regulations to prevent a free / competitive market. Any time you hear some well trained little consumer drone claim they would pay anything for some trite object, we just hear an idiot, but a businessman hears a cash register bell... Pay anything you said? Well... that can certainly be arranged...
  - theorique 13y ago
    claim they would pay anything for some trite object Education for your kids, health insurance to finance treatment for deadly illness, and personal safety are hardly "trite objects". If a person would not spend highly on these things, what would he be willing to spend on as a higher priority?
    - jessaustin 13y ago
      Food? Shelter? Granted these are typically less expensive than the services you mention, but they're certainly not less important. Rather, they're sold in functioning, normal markets of private firms.
    - VLM 13y ago
      Exactly what I meant. Now imagine a horde of crooked businessmen (and bad money always chases out good...) purchasing .gov assistance in eliminating a free market in those areas as they start to pick your pocket. After all, you'd pay anything for those topic, so they'll logically take everything. Their purchase of .gov means there will not be any competition to keep prices down. Finally another key to the puzzle is its perception that sells not the product. If you think your insurance company will stand by you to help you thru an illness, they would never try to screw you and your heirs as much as possible, well, I've got a bridge to sell you. "The system" is crooked enough that if someone is selling you safety you can pretty much assume they're just screwing you over; kind of like any argument in politics involving "its for the children".
VLM 13y ago
"Expose yourself to new ideas and cool things. Great." ... "They're luxurious fantasies that many of us can't afford to nurse." That fantasy is still free and luxurious and new and cool, just you need an internet connection (which you need anyway) instead of attending school. If you're the type that doesn't want to learn, going to school isn't going to help much, and if you're the type that wants to learn, you don't need the school (to learn) if you have the internet. The only remaining purpose of school for most, is social signalling and some advanced (and some not so advanced) vocational training, and a few nuts like myself who still think education itself is worthwhile, as opposed to mere vocational training.
snowwrestler 13y ago
In college I studied English and geology. I drifted by playing with computers, and having outdoor adventures. Since college I have made my living entirely in the outdoor and computer industries. It's been a fun and productive career. I think that's what the author meant by drifting--not getting drunk all the time, but exploring other interests. If I didn't drift, I'd have a much harder life today: writing and geology are industries that have become less lucrative since college. My current career--building and operating websites--did not even exist when I matriculated!

glesica 13y ago

If by "drift", we mean "get drunk and go to football games" then I am right there with you, not something I want my kid to focus on. But if by "drift" we mean explore the world and think about what it means to live in it, then I can't disagree with you more. That kind of drifting IS an investment. It may not make one wealthy, but it will likely go a long way toward making one happy, and it can improve society immeasurably. The social implications of college seem to get lost in the debate on HN, and really everywhere to some extent. We don't send our kids to college simply for their own good, we do it also for the good of society, which is why, in the past, people saw fit for society to cover most of the cost. > But these romantic notions of college strike me as increasingly antiquated. They're luxurious fantasies that many of us can't afford to nurse. But why? As a nation we are "wealthier" than we have ever been, and productivity has skyrocketed in the last 100 years. Why is it, then, that we are actually losing ground and every day we hear that we can no longer "afford" things that we, presumably, could once afford? The retirement age is being pushed ever higher while, at the same time, students are under pressure to enter the work force sooner. This is not the economy we signed up for.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
VLM 13y ago
"every day we hear that we can no longer "afford" things that we, presumably, could once afford?" Look at the hyper conformity of the average consumer. I'd pay anything for health (insurance co exec and hospital exec smile) I'd pay anything for my kids to get a good job, and rich peoples kids used to get great jobs, and also used to get an education, therefore education must be required for great jobs, so I'll pay anything for my kids vocational educational training (university execs rub hands together in glee at idea of multigenerational 10% annual tuition increases) I'd pay anything to live in a nice safe location (sellers and commissioned real estate agents and commissioned mortgage brokers/bankers jump up and down with excitement at a new sucker) There are a couple things in common. Suckers who see the expenditure as a universal, unarguable good, and entrenched players doing the ogliopoly thing by purchasing .gov regulations to prevent a free / competitive market. Any time you hear some well trained little consumer drone claim they would pay anything for some trite object, we just hear an idiot, but a businessman hears a cash register bell... Pay anything you said? Well... that can certainly be arranged...
- theorique 13y ago
  claim they would pay anything for some trite object Education for your kids, health insurance to finance treatment for deadly illness, and personal safety are hardly "trite objects". If a person would not spend highly on these things, what would he be willing to spend on as a higher priority?
  - jessaustin 13y ago
    Food? Shelter? Granted these are typically less expensive than the services you mention, but they're certainly not less important. Rather, they're sold in functioning, normal markets of private firms.
  - VLM 13y ago
    Exactly what I meant. Now imagine a horde of crooked businessmen (and bad money always chases out good...) purchasing .gov assistance in eliminating a free market in those areas as they start to pick your pocket. After all, you'd pay anything for those topic, so they'll logically take everything. Their purchase of .gov means there will not be any competition to keep prices down. Finally another key to the puzzle is its perception that sells not the product. If you think your insurance company will stand by you to help you thru an illness, they would never try to screw you and your heirs as much as possible, well, I've got a bridge to sell you. "The system" is crooked enough that if someone is selling you safety you can pretty much assume they're just screwing you over; kind of like any argument in politics involving "its for the children".

VLM 13y ago

"Expose yourself to new ideas and cool things. Great." ... "They're luxurious fantasies that many of us can't afford to nurse." That fantasy is still free and luxurious and new and cool, just you need an internet connection (which you need anyway) instead of attending school. If you're the type that doesn't want to learn, going to school isn't going to help much, and if you're the type that wants to learn, you don't need the school (to learn) if you have the internet. The only remaining purpose of school for most, is social signalling and some advanced (and some not so advanced) vocational training, and a few nuts like myself who still think education itself is worthwhile, as opposed to mere vocational training.

snowwrestler 13y ago

In college I studied English and geology. I drifted by playing with computers, and having outdoor adventures. Since college I have made my living entirely in the outdoor and computer industries. It's been a fun and productive career. I think that's what the author meant by drifting--not getting drunk all the time, but exploring other interests. If I didn't drift, I'd have a much harder life today: writing and geology are industries that have become less lucrative since college. My current career--building and operating websites--did not even exist when I matriculated!