4 ms·

Sensationalist hogwash. Stanford continues to be strong as a research university, and not just in engineering. Consider that two of this year's Nobel laureates

by teuobk 13y ago

Sensationalist hogwash. Stanford continues to be strong as a research university, and not just in engineering. Consider that two of this year's Nobel laureates were Stanford professors: one in medicine, one in chemistry. Think about the very strong history program, or the fine arts, or the (surprising) presence of the conservative Hoover Institution. In the years I spent as a student, I saw plenty of entrepreneurial excitement, but I also experienced excellence in areas far removed from the worlds of business, venture capital, and software. Stanford is a diverse place. Just because a small number of students are dropping out to start companies doesn't mean that the end of the university is nigh.

slurry 13y ago
It's legitimate to ask about the ethics of administrators investing personally in a student startup, especially when the students drop out en masse.
- 3JPLW 13y ago
  Agreed. I'd love to see an article more thoroughly exploring that than one that unilaterally declares that it's no longer a university.
- caycep 13y ago
  I generally agree with this - there should be some sort of safeguard or a set of enforceable ethics guidelines and oversight. Although: it's nice that instead of the students paying gobs of money in tuition to the school, the schools is paying gobs of money to the students....
- snowwrestler 13y ago
  I think the outrage is based on a perception of a teacher/student relationship, but unlike high school, the students in college are legal adults. Legally, and I would argue ethically, college students are not under the care of their professors or administrators. If there were allegations that professors were tying their instruction to investment--e.g. let me invest in your company or I will give you an F--I would agree that there are ethical issues. But I don't see any allegations of that.
  - macspoofing 13y ago
    >If there were allegations that professors were tying their instruction to investment ... That's not the point. The faculty-student relationship and university-student relationship is fraught with those kinds of ethical landmines. For example, I can tell you right now, if a professor is invested in student's company, he cannot be his professor ever again (i.e. he may be his lecturer, but he can never grade his or her projects, papers and exams). This is all especially true in the context of investment and startups. I'm sure if you're a high-flying startup going towards a billion dollar exit everyone is happy and best-friends. But let me tell you, the nature of your relationship with your investors changes fundamentally when your business starts failing and there is a very real risk of people losing hundreds of thousands (or millions) of invested money. >but unlike high school, the students in college are legal adults. Doesn't matter. A doctor cannot write prescriptions for people he may know personally because of the obvious conflict of interest. Similarly a clinical therapist shouldn't be providing therapy for friends or family. It doesn't matter that all parties are responsible, upstanding adults.
    - rlanday 13y ago
      It is not true that doctors cannot write prescriptions for people they know.
      - macspoofing 13y ago
        Fair. I don't know what the legality is in every jurisdiction and it may very well be legal everywhere so I'll clarify. It is highly frowned upon, and potentially unethical, for doctors to treat their family or prescribe medication for themselves or their family. This most certainly extends to non-family members if a conflict of interest exists. It would be unethical if you prescribed medication to your bookie. Anyway, my point stands regardless. The fact that there may be no strict illegality in a school or faculty investing in student project, does not mean there are no ethical issues that have to be resolved. Furthermore, the faculty or school may be opening itself up to liability. Frequently these kinds of issues are not judged (in civil court at least) strictly on their legality but rather on the 'smell test'. I can imagine a scenario in which a student may sue the school alleging some negative repercussions in his school life given that the investment fell through (maybe sue the school for tuition fees he paid prior to being 'pressured' to quit school). The case may be merit-less, but the school could be punished for putting themselves in a position in which a conflict of interest exists. When a business blows-up there are a lot of hurt feelings and a lot of anger and bitterness.
r3m6 13y ago
Today's Nobel prices are the result of work done decades ago.
tlow 13y ago
Upvoted by this Stanford Alumnus.
yeukhon 13y ago
Stanford will continue to be the way it is, just it is opening up more avenues for students. Coursera is a startup from Stanford, started by CS professors and students. There are people who want to make big money and there are people who love doing research and teaching instead of making big money. School shouldn't be a library. I say startup like coursera just made university lab more interesting, solving more interesting problems, with a better salary. Not very different.
geebee 13y ago
Agreed. Stanford has a huge number of exceptionally highly regarded programs in a very wide range of disciplines (many of them are outside computer science or engineering). http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2010/09/28/nrc-rankings/ http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2010/09/28/nrc-rankings/ No doubt computer science and startups are a big deal at Stanford, but that hardly means these other programs aren't there. No idea why this writer hasn't mentioned this.
macspoofing 13y ago
>Sensationalist hogwash Actually it isn't. The author raises some good points.

by teuobk 13y ago

slurry 13y ago

It's legitimate to ask about the ethics of administrators investing personally in a student startup, especially when the students drop out en masse.

3JPLW 13y ago
Agreed. I'd love to see an article more thoroughly exploring that than one that unilaterally declares that it's no longer a university.
caycep 13y ago
I generally agree with this - there should be some sort of safeguard or a set of enforceable ethics guidelines and oversight. Although: it's nice that instead of the students paying gobs of money in tuition to the school, the schools is paying gobs of money to the students....
snowwrestler 13y ago
I think the outrage is based on a perception of a teacher/student relationship, but unlike high school, the students in college are legal adults. Legally, and I would argue ethically, college students are not under the care of their professors or administrators. If there were allegations that professors were tying their instruction to investment--e.g. let me invest in your company or I will give you an F--I would agree that there are ethical issues. But I don't see any allegations of that.
- macspoofing 13y ago
  >If there were allegations that professors were tying their instruction to investment ... That's not the point. The faculty-student relationship and university-student relationship is fraught with those kinds of ethical landmines. For example, I can tell you right now, if a professor is invested in student's company, he cannot be his professor ever again (i.e. he may be his lecturer, but he can never grade his or her projects, papers and exams). This is all especially true in the context of investment and startups. I'm sure if you're a high-flying startup going towards a billion dollar exit everyone is happy and best-friends. But let me tell you, the nature of your relationship with your investors changes fundamentally when your business starts failing and there is a very real risk of people losing hundreds of thousands (or millions) of invested money. >but unlike high school, the students in college are legal adults. Doesn't matter. A doctor cannot write prescriptions for people he may know personally because of the obvious conflict of interest. Similarly a clinical therapist shouldn't be providing therapy for friends or family. It doesn't matter that all parties are responsible, upstanding adults.
  - rlanday 13y ago
    It is not true that doctors cannot write prescriptions for people they know.
    - macspoofing 13y ago
      Fair. I don't know what the legality is in every jurisdiction and it may very well be legal everywhere so I'll clarify. It is highly frowned upon, and potentially unethical, for doctors to treat their family or prescribe medication for themselves or their family. This most certainly extends to non-family members if a conflict of interest exists. It would be unethical if you prescribed medication to your bookie. Anyway, my point stands regardless. The fact that there may be no strict illegality in a school or faculty investing in student project, does not mean there are no ethical issues that have to be resolved. Furthermore, the faculty or school may be opening itself up to liability. Frequently these kinds of issues are not judged (in civil court at least) strictly on their legality but rather on the 'smell test'. I can imagine a scenario in which a student may sue the school alleging some negative repercussions in his school life given that the investment fell through (maybe sue the school for tuition fees he paid prior to being 'pressured' to quit school). The case may be merit-less, but the school could be punished for putting themselves in a position in which a conflict of interest exists. When a business blows-up there are a lot of hurt feelings and a lot of anger and bitterness.

r3m6 13y ago

Today's Nobel prices are the result of work done decades ago.

tlow 13y ago

Upvoted by this Stanford Alumnus.

yeukhon 13y ago

Stanford will continue to be the way it is, just it is opening up more avenues for students. Coursera is a startup from Stanford, started by CS professors and students. There are people who want to make big money and there are people who love doing research and teaching instead of making big money. School shouldn't be a library. I say startup like coursera just made university lab more interesting, solving more interesting problems, with a better salary. Not very different.

geebee 13y ago

Agreed. Stanford has a huge number of exceptionally highly regarded programs in a very wide range of disciplines (many of them are outside computer science or engineering). http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2010/09/28/nrc-rankings/ http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2010/09/28/nrc-rankings/ No doubt computer science and startups are a big deal at Stanford, but that hardly means these other programs aren't there. No idea why this writer hasn't mentioned this.

macspoofing 13y ago

>Sensationalist hogwash Actually it isn't. The author raises some good points.