4 ms·

You know, right after Windows 8 was released, I noticed something really interesting. While I was struggling with it [1], there were a lot of people on reddit

by e40 13y ago

You know, right after Windows 8 was released, I noticed something really interesting. While I was struggling with it [1], there were a lot of people on reddit and here being extremely positive, and on reddit there were attacks against anyone that was negative about it. At first, I figured I was just out of step. Gradually, the number of people complaining about Windows 8 grew to overshadow the boosters, where finally the boosters were nowhere to be seen. I believe it was a campaign by Microsoft to try and turn the tide they knew would be there, against it. It failed because Windows 8 was so horrible. So, 8.1 comes out and here we have a new account (6 days old) with a glowing review. Pardon me if I'm a little skeptical. I've been had before. [1] http://envoy510.wordpress.com/2013/07/19/windows-8-worst-windows-ever/ http://envoy510.wordpress.com/2013/07/19/windows-8-worst-win...

honestcoyote 13y ago
I don't know if those people were shills or not but the thing about the Win 8 boosters that surprised me was how angry many of them were or are. Someone would complain about the start screen or badly integrated metro apps and the chorus would start up about how anyone who didn't like the new menus and hot corners were luddites terrified of change. Absolutely ridiculous. It was a surprising change of tone from how Windows users usually discuss things. The anger is usually reserved for inexplicable changes which don't work. The defenders usually shrug it off with a "Well, Vista always worked for me." Windows is not normally the sort of thing which attracts the sort of angry defensive passion which Mac or Linux users used to display. So I can see how the abrupt change of tone would make people suspicious.
venomsnake 13y ago
I was one of the converted boosters. Windows 8 was good enough out of the box. But the real usability problems came later. Because the majority of the initial complaints were - "start screen ugly, metro apps unusable" - I was busy answering - start screen not that intrusive if you use shortcuts, metro apps uninstallable. But the real problems blossomed for me much later - the inability of GFWL to work on windows 8 so I cannot play the legally bought Bulletstorm, Arkham City and Assylum, some software working weirdly (Stroke it), the phantom french keyboard that appears from time to time (don't ask), the general locked-ness of the metro runtime (I was insisting close to a year ago that they cannot be that stupid and will just open the platform), problems with Cisco VPN, and so on. So for me W8 turned from different to terrible gradually.
- numo16 13y ago
  I was able to get GFWL games to work on W8 with this fix: http://www.alialsawaf.com/post/36741943821/how-to-fix-games-for-windows-live-on-windows-8-pro-x64 http://www.alialsawaf.com/post/36741943821/how-to-fix-games-...
rplnt 13y ago
I don't personally like the looks of Metro, or how intrusive it is (fullscreen) but it is far superior to classic start in basically every regard. Especially with keyboard. I think people don't like it because of change, not because they think is bad. The bitching at it reminds me of people using Gnome 2 or at least complaining how great it was. It's people hating change. Gnome 2 is crap when it comes to usability and configurability. Its only advantage was speed.. but hey, Windows 2000 might be fast on today's machines as well. And while it might look sketchy it's not a glowing review but rather a list of configuration options that user changed in order to avoid metro as much as possible.
- e40 13y ago
  Go read the blog entry and tell me if I'm bitching about change. I've used every single version of Windows since 3.1. I didn't like Vista because it had huge performance issues. I've never really bitched about Windows because I've always liked it. So, you couldn't be further from the truth.
AaronFriel 13y ago
Oh god, not this conspiracy theory paid shill nonsense again. If I had a dollar for every time I was called a shill for saying anything positive about Microsoft, well, it still wouldn't make me a paid shill. There's an alternative to your theory that requires fewer assumptions and only requires reasoning based on the types of people involved in the discussions you mention. People who like Windows 8 were comfortable using it in new ways, people who didn't want to change didn't like it. The people who don't want to change still don't want to change and so of course they are still complaining. Me? I'm tired of debating people on whether or not Windows 8 was an improvement over 7 or not. Usually it comes down to dogmatic beliefs over how they think Windows should work and those beliefs are at odds with how Microsoft thinks it should work. Why argue with dogmatism? As evidence for the dogmatism of this belief, look no further than your own comment. You simply cannot believe anyone would think Windows 8 was good, or that Windows 8.1 is good. You and the House stenographer would get along.
- e40 13y ago
  People who like Windows 8 were comfortable using it in new ways, people who didn't want to change didn't like it. Go read the blog entry and tell me that's about change. You can't look at that large list of problems and tell me it's my problem.
  - untog 13y ago
    You're talking about yourself (and repeatedly telling people to go read your blog post, which they're not required to do) - the other posters are talking about users in general. No doubt that you may well be an outlier. Every piece of software has groups of people who use it differently, including some that are infuriated by it. That doesn't mean that everyone that posts a positive experience is a paid shill.
  - ximeng 13y ago
    I'm happy with Windows 8, and your blog entry doesn't reflect my experience.
- vertex-four 13y ago
chrissmeuk 13y ago
Sorry this is a new account but I'm not a new HN reader. Shill argument here we come. To be honest I'm not enamoured with windows 8.1. It's just marginally better for me than windows 7 was and I'm trying to spread some help for those who will be picking it up today who will no doubt expect it to work a bit like windows 7. If I was a shill, surely I'd be saying "metro is fucking awesome!" and other such things which it clearly isn't based on the fact I want rid of it. I've got 15 years of UNIX and Linux experience as well and would rather have my head in an old Sun workstation than this shit, but it's not where the world is for me unfortunately.
- e40 13y ago
  If I was a shill, surely I'd be saying "metro is fucking awesome!" Yeah, that's what you'd do. You won't try and be subtle at all. I agree, you are no shill. Look, I don't know if you are or not. Your post seemed odd to me, especially coming so quickly after the release of 8.1.
  - curiousDog 13y ago
    8.1 has been out for devs for a while I think.
- manojlds 13y ago
  The fact that you are still using the word "metro" means you aren't a shill ;)
GrinningFool 13y ago
I would actually call GP a post of useful tips to make Windows 8 less annoying. Your post, not so much in the 'value-add' department. Edit: Well damnit. For that matter, neither is mine :( Mustn't feed the trolls. One never comes out ahead.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

by e40 13y ago

honestcoyote 13y ago

I don't know if those people were shills or not but the thing about the Win 8 boosters that surprised me was how angry many of them were or are. Someone would complain about the start screen or badly integrated metro apps and the chorus would start up about how anyone who didn't like the new menus and hot corners were luddites terrified of change. Absolutely ridiculous. It was a surprising change of tone from how Windows users usually discuss things. The anger is usually reserved for inexplicable changes which don't work. The defenders usually shrug it off with a "Well, Vista always worked for me." Windows is not normally the sort of thing which attracts the sort of angry defensive passion which Mac or Linux users used to display. So I can see how the abrupt change of tone would make people suspicious.

venomsnake 13y ago

I was one of the converted boosters. Windows 8 was good enough out of the box. But the real usability problems came later. Because the majority of the initial complaints were - "start screen ugly, metro apps unusable" - I was busy answering - start screen not that intrusive if you use shortcuts, metro apps uninstallable. But the real problems blossomed for me much later - the inability of GFWL to work on windows 8 so I cannot play the legally bought Bulletstorm, Arkham City and Assylum, some software working weirdly (Stroke it), the phantom french keyboard that appears from time to time (don't ask), the general locked-ness of the metro runtime (I was insisting close to a year ago that they cannot be that stupid and will just open the platform), problems with Cisco VPN, and so on. So for me W8 turned from different to terrible gradually.

numo16 13y ago
I was able to get GFWL games to work on W8 with this fix: http://www.alialsawaf.com/post/36741943821/how-to-fix-games-for-windows-live-on-windows-8-pro-x64 http://www.alialsawaf.com/post/36741943821/how-to-fix-games-...

rplnt 13y ago

I don't personally like the looks of Metro, or how intrusive it is (fullscreen) but it is far superior to classic start in basically every regard. Especially with keyboard. I think people don't like it because of change, not because they think is bad. The bitching at it reminds me of people using Gnome 2 or at least complaining how great it was. It's people hating change. Gnome 2 is crap when it comes to usability and configurability. Its only advantage was speed.. but hey, Windows 2000 might be fast on today's machines as well. And while it might look sketchy it's not a glowing review but rather a list of configuration options that user changed in order to avoid metro as much as possible.

e40 13y ago
Go read the blog entry and tell me if I'm bitching about change. I've used every single version of Windows since 3.1. I didn't like Vista because it had huge performance issues. I've never really bitched about Windows because I've always liked it. So, you couldn't be further from the truth.

AaronFriel 13y ago

Oh god, not this conspiracy theory paid shill nonsense again. If I had a dollar for every time I was called a shill for saying anything positive about Microsoft, well, it still wouldn't make me a paid shill. There's an alternative to your theory that requires fewer assumptions and only requires reasoning based on the types of people involved in the discussions you mention. People who like Windows 8 were comfortable using it in new ways, people who didn't want to change didn't like it. The people who don't want to change still don't want to change and so of course they are still complaining. Me? I'm tired of debating people on whether or not Windows 8 was an improvement over 7 or not. Usually it comes down to dogmatic beliefs over how they think Windows should work and those beliefs are at odds with how Microsoft thinks it should work. Why argue with dogmatism? As evidence for the dogmatism of this belief, look no further than your own comment. You simply cannot believe anyone would think Windows 8 was good, or that Windows 8.1 is good. You and the House stenographer would get along.

e40 13y ago
People who like Windows 8 were comfortable using it in new ways, people who didn't want to change didn't like it. Go read the blog entry and tell me that's about change. You can't look at that large list of problems and tell me it's my problem.
- untog 13y ago
  You're talking about yourself (and repeatedly telling people to go read your blog post, which they're not required to do) - the other posters are talking about users in general. No doubt that you may well be an outlier. Every piece of software has groups of people who use it differently, including some that are infuriated by it. That doesn't mean that everyone that posts a positive experience is a paid shill.
- ximeng 13y ago
  I'm happy with Windows 8, and your blog entry doesn't reflect my experience.
vertex-four 13y ago

chrissmeuk 13y ago

Sorry this is a new account but I'm not a new HN reader. Shill argument here we come. To be honest I'm not enamoured with windows 8.1. It's just marginally better for me than windows 7 was and I'm trying to spread some help for those who will be picking it up today who will no doubt expect it to work a bit like windows 7. If I was a shill, surely I'd be saying "metro is fucking awesome!" and other such things which it clearly isn't based on the fact I want rid of it. I've got 15 years of UNIX and Linux experience as well and would rather have my head in an old Sun workstation than this shit, but it's not where the world is for me unfortunately.

e40 13y ago
If I was a shill, surely I'd be saying "metro is fucking awesome!" Yeah, that's what you'd do. You won't try and be subtle at all. I agree, you are no shill. Look, I don't know if you are or not. Your post seemed odd to me, especially coming so quickly after the release of 8.1.
- curiousDog 13y ago
  8.1 has been out for devs for a while I think.
manojlds 13y ago
The fact that you are still using the word "metro" means you aren't a shill ;)

GrinningFool 13y ago

I would actually call GP a post of useful tips to make Windows 8 less annoying. Your post, not so much in the 'value-add' department. Edit: Well damnit. For that matter, neither is mine :( Mustn't feed the trolls. One never comes out ahead.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]