5 ms·
No IE onboard Windows 7 in Europe
- jeroen 17y agohttp://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=654414 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=654414 The European Comission: "If the Commission were to find that Microsoft had committed an abuse, the Commission has suggested that consumers should be offered a choice of browser, not that Windows should be supplied without a browser at all." That's quite a different situation than what MS imply with their response.
- sounddust 17y agoThe article states that Microsoft will make it easy to find and download browsers, which is essentially the same thing as having a choice of browsers. The EC is probably referring to Windows XP N, which didn't include a media player at all, and sort of left users in the dark as to how to play media files using it. I'm sure MS got some criticism from that from the EU and will not repeat the mistake.
- barredo 17y agoHow would people install Firefox/Chrome/Opera/Safari whatever then? It's a shame that they choose to provide no browsers instead of providing a few
- weavejester 17y agoPresumably they'd use whatever browser was installed by the OEM.
- petercooper 17y agoWho get paid to bundle certain applications on their machines..
- petercooper 17y agoI'm usually anti-Microsoft, but it's ridiculous that Internet Explorer was a problem to the EU to start with. Why not unbundle Explorer? Why not unbundle the control panel? Isn't it unfair that Notepad is included? What about Calculator.. surely that's hurting Mathematica? (Before you think I'm going over the top here, IE compared to Firefox is like Calculator vs Mathematica IMHO..) These EU commissions are run by dim-witted politicos who fail to understand any of the realities of technology or business.
- weavejester 17y agoIt's not ridiculous at all. Microsoft were using their monopoly in desktop operating systems to gain browser market share. This doesn't benefit anyone apart from Microsoft.
- jsonscripter 17y agoI would just like to add that monopolies do not deserve the same rights as ordinary businesses.
- axod 17y agoI don't think people would have minded as much if IE weren't the worst browser ever created. Add to that the fact that Microsoft abandoned IE for years, leaving everyone high and dry.
- petercooper 17y agoActually, IE being a hideous browser should make it better as it makes it easier for competition to succeed and gives people more reason to investigate and accept alternatives. Consider if all manufactured cars came with a really crappy "default" radio with horrible sound. The majority of drivers would choose to upgrade the radio to a better one, thus making the marketplace for car radios a healthier, more competitive one. If the cars came with amazing radios built in, hardly anyone would switch.
- vaksel 17y agoDell etc would probably have the stuff installed on all new computers.
- DrJokepu 17y agoYeah as someone living in Europe, I'm not really happy about that. Internet Explorer is an excellent tool to download Chrome or Firefox. It's like a bootstrapping browser. Very useful.
- jsonscripter 17y agoIt would be nice if there was a dialog that lists a number of browsers that can be downloaded and installed automatically.
- froo 17y agoI'm curious if Europe will enforce the same policies on Apple - eg, ensuring that safari does not come pre-installed on snow leopard. If not, blatant double standards given Apple's market share is increasing. EDIT - another thought, since access to internet via phones is becoming more widespread, will the EU start imposing the same policies on mobile phone manufacturers... EDIT #2 - Personally I think if the EU wants to force competition in the browser market, they should ensure that users get a choice of browsers with the pre-installed OS, otherwise with the browser not being included is potentially stumping the growth of internet availability to people who otherwise wouldn't have it. Just to be clear, I'm not anti-Apple, I just dislike silly rulings that in themselves are anti-competitive, given they only apply to one company.
- AlisdairO 17y agoAnti monopoly rules are usually unfair sounding. Why shouldn't a larger company use its position and money to dominate a new market? The thing is, monopolies can be so damaging to society that treating them in a manner that seems instinctively fair is often bad for us. Like it or not, they are different, and they must be treated differently. It's important to remember that corporations are not people, so if they're treated unfairly the only reason it's a big deal is if society as a whole loses out as a result. That said, I think the browser market is competitive enough nowadays that MS including a browser really is not that big a deal - OSes include browsers in the same way that cars come with steering wheels. I think this is more about punishing MS for past transgressions than anything else.
- arthurk 17y ago... by bundling its browser software in with its operating system. I still don't understand why this is wrong. It's their os, let them do whatever they want with it. There are other operating systems around. They don't need to use Windows.
- daleharvey 17y agoMy memory is pretty hazy, but wasnt it something to do with the fact they seperately charged for ie (while netscape was also non free).
- Luc 17y agoIf IE is bundled with the OS, their de facto monopoly in the OS market reduces innovation, competition and customer choice in the _browser_ market.
- petercooper 17y agoDoes the bundling of Command Prompt reduce innovation and competition in the command line client market? Does Windows Explorer reduce innovation and competition in the file browser market?
- Luc 17y agoThat could be argued. It's a shades of grey thing. Some things stand out as bundled more than others - especially those that are obviously not part of an OS, for which a market exists etc.
- access_denied 17y agouser of cli knows 'alternative package exists and can be installed for free' = true nearly 100% of the time; user of browser knows 'alternative ...';; returns "distinctions packages missing';
- petercooper 17y agoPerhaps in the 90s a Web browser would have not obviously been part of an OS, but nowadays it's one of the simplest, yet most used, applications going and it makes sense to bundle one with any desktop-based OS. Come to think of it, I can't think of any current desktop-based OS that doesn't come with a Web browser installed by default.. The whole anti-competition lawsuit over this stuff was based on early 2000s assumptions. It's time to forget all about it now and let MS get on with it.
- gscott 17y agoNetscape's ftp site was always handy, can't seem to find any ftp sites for any browsers now.
- jsonscripter 17y agoftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/latest/
- imp 17y agoHow do you get an ftp client without a browser?
- halo 17y agoWindows Explorer has an FTP client built-in.
- petercooper 17y agoUh-oh, I smell another lawsuit. Think of the damage that's doing to all those FTP client vendors!
- gscott 17y agoWith Windows you go to the Command Prompt and type ftp.
- hellweaver666 17y agoWhy does it matter which browser has bigger market share as far as antitrust laws go? Nearly all browsers are free and have been for donkeys years, so does it really matter -business wise- if one company has the majority?
- hellweaver666 17y agoDoes this mean that AOL will finally have an excuse for sending out all those annoying CD's again?