4 ms·

> as Fred Wilson said, “you’re far better off working with somebody of high ethics with no NDA than somebody of low ethics with a signed NDA.” I think this is

> as Fred Wilson said, “you’re far better off working with somebody of high ethics with no NDA than somebody of low ethics with a signed NDA.” I think this is what it comes down to. If you can't trust the people you're working with - then you shouldn't be working with them.

loceng 13y ago
Most of the time you won't know the person you're talking to that well, and unless you have a conversation beforehand - how do you know what their ethics are?
- foobarbazqux 13y ago
  If you know how to read people this all comes out in an interview. If somebody lacks integrity there will be many red flags.
  - loceng 13y ago
    Sorry, but I'm confused - where does an interview come into play when you're sharing someone your ideas?
    - foobarbazqux 13y ago
      I was assuming the context was signing NDAs as a condition of employment. Even if that's not the case, I'm still going to talk to someone a little before I just spill the beans.
      - loceng 13y ago
        Company interviews are quite different then just sharing an idea with someone. If you're going to a company to be hired and paid, they aren't going to likely be telling you ideas - more of a general idea of what you might be working on, and to see if you're a fit. You'll then be made an offer for the job (or not) and will have to sign papers, including an NDA to accept the job, likely also copyright-related agreements, etc..
        foobarbazqux 13y ago
        Some companies don't require that their employees sign NDAs about the work they do. These companies still manage to keep confidential information confidential because in the interview process they are able to weed out the people that lack integrity.
        6d0debc071 13y ago
        How are you distinguishing this from the person just not having a significant incentive to sell out?
        foobarbazqux 13y ago
        So per my original comment, there are lots of indicators of a lack of integrity. Just ask enough questions about someone's life, their values, their ambitions, how they'd respond to various conflict situations, ask them their opinions on just about any issue. If you get unbalanced, dramatic, polarized results, it indicates a lack of integrity, which might crumble altogether given enough incentive, monetary or otherwise. If this approach is too sketchy, or you don't want to miss out on otherwise talented people, use an NDA. I know that might sound a bit bullshit. I guess this is speaking as someone who lacked integrity in the past that feels they can generally recognize it with some precision in others now.
        loceng 13y ago
        Those aren't the type of people you need to worry about though - it would be the sly ones, and they are hard to know who they are. They are friendly until they don't care to be. I'm unsure if people purposely do this or they just become inspired by the ideas, feel they could do them on their own, and then start - I'm sure there's a mix, though you'll get a mix of honest and dishonest people in the both groups, the ones who are willing to sign the NDA, and those who aren't willing to.
- joelrunyon 13y ago
  I think at that point - you probably shouldn't divulge the entirety of your business plans to them. You can talk to someone about your business without giving away everything.
dragonwriter 13y ago
OTOH, even with someone with high ethics, there can be a clash of expectations without an explicit agreement. So you are best off with someone of high ethics with a documented explicit agreement.
- matwood 13y ago
  Exactly. Trusting people is hard enough, when there is money on the line take trust out of the equation with an explicit agreement. When dealing with friends and family an explicit agreement is even more important because the implicit assumptions are higher.
davemel37 13y ago
there is a deeper issue here, do you trust all the people this guy might tell? There are people out there that file patents about ideas they know others just filed patents on, with the hopes of scaring them into a settlement or whatnot. (even though the original inventor would likely win the patent, they wont know about a new filing for about a year... at that point the project is far enough along that a similar patent can cause real problems. problems people would gladly pay to make go away.)
elwell 13y ago
Sometimes you need to work with people you can't trust. Sometimes it's your only shot.

loceng 13y ago

Most of the time you won't know the person you're talking to that well, and unless you have a conversation beforehand - how do you know what their ethics are?

foobarbazqux 13y ago
If you know how to read people this all comes out in an interview. If somebody lacks integrity there will be many red flags.
- loceng 13y ago
  Sorry, but I'm confused - where does an interview come into play when you're sharing someone your ideas?
  - foobarbazqux 13y ago
    I was assuming the context was signing NDAs as a condition of employment. Even if that's not the case, I'm still going to talk to someone a little before I just spill the beans.
    - loceng 13y ago
      Company interviews are quite different then just sharing an idea with someone. If you're going to a company to be hired and paid, they aren't going to likely be telling you ideas - more of a general idea of what you might be working on, and to see if you're a fit. You'll then be made an offer for the job (or not) and will have to sign papers, including an NDA to accept the job, likely also copyright-related agreements, etc..
      - foobarbazqux 13y ago
        Some companies don't require that their employees sign NDAs about the work they do. These companies still manage to keep confidential information confidential because in the interview process they are able to weed out the people that lack integrity.
        6d0debc071 13y ago
        How are you distinguishing this from the person just not having a significant incentive to sell out?
        foobarbazqux 13y ago
        So per my original comment, there are lots of indicators of a lack of integrity. Just ask enough questions about someone's life, their values, their ambitions, how they'd respond to various conflict situations, ask them their opinions on just about any issue. If you get unbalanced, dramatic, polarized results, it indicates a lack of integrity, which might crumble altogether given enough incentive, monetary or otherwise. If this approach is too sketchy, or you don't want to miss out on otherwise talented people, use an NDA. I know that might sound a bit bullshit. I guess this is speaking as someone who lacked integrity in the past that feels they can generally recognize it with some precision in others now.
        loceng 13y ago
        Those aren't the type of people you need to worry about though - it would be the sly ones, and they are hard to know who they are. They are friendly until they don't care to be. I'm unsure if people purposely do this or they just become inspired by the ideas, feel they could do them on their own, and then start - I'm sure there's a mix, though you'll get a mix of honest and dishonest people in the both groups, the ones who are willing to sign the NDA, and those who aren't willing to.
joelrunyon 13y ago
I think at that point - you probably shouldn't divulge the entirety of your business plans to them. You can talk to someone about your business without giving away everything.

dragonwriter 13y ago

OTOH, even with someone with high ethics, there can be a clash of expectations without an explicit agreement. So you are best off with someone of high ethics with a documented explicit agreement.

matwood 13y ago
Exactly. Trusting people is hard enough, when there is money on the line take trust out of the equation with an explicit agreement. When dealing with friends and family an explicit agreement is even more important because the implicit assumptions are higher.

davemel37 13y ago

there is a deeper issue here, do you trust all the people this guy might tell? There are people out there that file patents about ideas they know others just filed patents on, with the hopes of scaring them into a settlement or whatnot. (even though the original inventor would likely win the patent, they wont know about a new filing for about a year... at that point the project is far enough along that a similar patent can cause real problems. problems people would gladly pay to make go away.)

elwell 13y ago

Sometimes you need to work with people you can't trust. Sometimes it's your only shot.