7 ms·

Polyphasic Sleep: One Man's 6-Month Experiment (2005)

60 points by thinkzig 17y ago

trickjarrett 17y ago
This is perhaps the post / experiment I most enjoyed with Pavlina. He wrote a lot of good stuff, I fell out of love with his stuff a year or so ago but this is one that I really enjoyed reading about.
- thinkzig 17y ago
  OP here and I agree with your assessment of the Pavlina blog's change over the past year. His earlier stuff was great but I've had a hard time digesting some of his newer topics. I posted this because there was a lot of interesting discussion on the Matt Mullenweg post in regards to his sleeping patterns. My lifestyle would make it hard for me to try polyphasic sleep, but I could see where it would help my productivity if I could pull it off.
  - trickjarrett 17y ago
    Polyphasic sleep is something I consider the ultimate lifehack and something I see society moving towards in a cyberpunk / dystopia future as timezones become more and more irrelevant. BTW: I appreciate you putting the year of the post in the title.
    - JabavuAdams 17y ago
      Why should the future be dystopian?
    - maclifer 17y ago
      I meant to add kudos for that as well, thanks for mentioning that trickjarrett.
dmm 17y ago
Be sure to check out Piotr Wozniak's thoughts on polyphasic sleep: http://www.supermemo.com/help/faq/polyphasic.htm http://www.supermemo.com/help/faq/polyphasic.htm
- crocowhile 17y ago
  The article linked by OP is just plain wrong on so many aspects. The one linked here, OTHO, seems to get things quite right. I am a neuroscientist and I study sleep (genetics of sleep, to be precise); I am amused and intrigued by the amount of threads concerning sleep I found on HN. Only in the last week I think I could find 4 or so. May I suggest few hints on the matter? As a general rule: - there is no a common "minimum amount of sleep". Sleeping time, sleeping needs and ability to cope with sleep deprivation are different in different people. By the age of 30 you should definitely be able to know what your needs are. - the accepted rule is: if you need an alarm clock to wake up in the morning, then you are sleep deprived. sleep deprivation is detrimental for your performance - if you cannot achieve a night of resting sleep you might be experiencing a sleep problem. sleep apnea is very frequent and very likely if you are overweight. - don't believe of self-reported sleeping patterns, especially if they come from eccentric people or even worse if they date back centuries. Italian dictator Mussolini used to have one person staging in his office at night: he would leave the lights on and move around occasionally so that people looking at the window would believe the Duce never slept. The idea that sleep is for weak and superhero don't need sleep is just BS, of course. - Let me conclude with a thought. I like to hear your opinions about this. I do research for living and I have learned that putting way too much effort in a very risky business can be very dangerous for your motivation. If you work 80/90 hours a week on something that will fail (and startups, like research, have a high risk of failure) you may end up being so demotivated that you will likely not give yourself a second chance. What I want to say is: if you work so much that it gets to the point when is not fun any more, maybe you should consider slowing down.
  - randallsquared 17y ago
    By the age of 30 you should definitely be able to know what your needs are. Well, except that it was around 30 that my needs started changing. Until then I often needed 8-9 hours a day of sleep, but sometime after 30 I noticed that I wasn't sleeping as long (and I'd long been out of the habit of using an alarm clock until last year, because I worked for myself and never scheduled anything in the early morning). Now my average is more like 7 hours a day, and it's not uncommon for me to wake up after 5 or 6 hours feeling just as rested as I used to after 9. Talking about sleep schedules with my father led to the interesting revelation that this happened to him about my age, and it continued decreasing right along, so that now, in his 80s, he's only sleeping about 4 hours a night, and doesn't feel that he needs more. So, I guess I've got that to look forward to. :)
icey 17y ago
It's certainly fascinating, but I'm not convinced it's sustainable. I'd like to see someone who has held this schedule up for a period of years.
- Aximilation 17y ago
  I'm coming up on three years now, for the one with the most experience, check out the pioneer, http://puredoxyk.com http://puredoxyk.com I found her articles on everything2 years ago and was intrigued. I recently started a blog about my polyphasic lifestyle, I may not be the best example as I don't follow a strict schedule, but I've stuck at it and it's worked well. My latest post was talking about if it really works, if you're interested, you can read it here: http://blog.aximilation.com/blog.php?p=68&more=1&c=1&tw=hn&tb=1&pb=1 http://blog.aximilation.com/blog.php?p=68&more=1&c=1... For those not wanting to read it, my consensus is that yes it works, but not for everyone with every lifestyle.
  - icey 17y ago
    I've read parts of her blog, but I recall it seeming like it required a lot of regular effort to maintain that schedule; almost as though she was still fighting polyphasic sleep every day. Do you feel that it requires regular effort on your part to maintain that schedule? Do you feel any differences mentally?
    - pchristensen 17y ago
      My experience was that is wasn't a physical struggle to stay on the schedule - it was a social one. The world does not do polyphasic and you have to defend your time. I eventually crashed out when I was supposed to come home ad sleep after work but my wife took me to dinner instead. Being up for 7 hours straight wiped me out for a day and it was too socially challenging to keep it up.
CGamesPlay 17y ago
I tried this two years ago with a friend. We weren't able to do it for very long, and we had a lot of trouble staying to the schedule (and not oversleeping). Eventually, you reach this sort of zombie lucidity where you're awake and conscious, but you're not 100% there, in my opinion. I'm not sure if that affected my critical thinking skills, but certainly some part of me was always asleep on that schedule. Hey, maybe this would have gone away if we'd been able to stick to it for longer. It was absolutely one of the funnest experiments I have tried and I want to do it again sometime.
- proee 17y ago
  How long did you try this for?
  - CGamesPlay 17y ago
    We were on the schedule for a total of about 2 weeks (widely regarded as not enough time).
- pchristensen 17y ago
  I got through about 2 weeks and while the first 4 days were hell, after that it was like a constant 90% alert. It was a little weird ever hitting 100%, but extremely weird not to space out and dip lower. I kept waiting to space out but it ever happened.
pchristensen 17y ago
Notes from my experience: http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/polyphasic-sleep-experiment-background/ http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/polyphasic-sleep-e... http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/category/polyphasic/ http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/category/polyphasi...
maclifer 17y ago
I thought that Steve Pavlina ended up writing some additional follow-up articles to his polyphasic experiment - make sure to read those, too. It didn't sound like something that would work for most people IMHO.
- Aximilation 17y ago
  Correct on both points. Steve called it quits quite a while ago, it's funny how his posts keep getting called up years after the fact. If you want more up to date info, google puredoxyk (founder) or jorel314 (collects links to current polyphasic sleepers)
sfphotoarts 17y ago
This seems like in our diurnal world to be living against the natural rhythm of things, but for space travelers, this seems like perfect prep for a trip. Maybe Steve should consult with NASA.
msluyter 17y ago
I was really intrigued by polyphasic sleep for a while, and used to fantasize about how much I could get done if I tried it. But realistically, I can barely tolerate typing 8 hrs a day as it is, and I have enough distractions and obsessions that it'd be rather unlikely that I'd spend that extra time doing much that was productive -- certainly, I wouldn't be programming.
harry 17y ago
I've been sleeping bi-phasitcally since I saw that article on lifehacker.com in 2005. Sleep cycle is 2:30AM - 7:00AM and another at 5:30PM - 7:00PM. Times are typically rough around the edges by 15 or so minutes. I'm a self diagnosed hypersomniac (I can sleep ALOT) it helps me feel very rested from a total of 6 hours as opposed to the 11-14 hours it typically takes for me to wake up naturally. "The downside to this sleep schedule is that it can be inflexible. I’ve read that you can delay naps by an hour if necessary, but missing a nap can cause a rapid crash that takes a while to recover from." This is very true. If I skip a nap one day after work, I typically pay for it by sleeping 2-3 times as long the next short cycle. It's definitely beneficial to me. Sleeping 10-12 hours a night and not being rested wastes alot of my not-at-work time and cuts into social obligations. Bi-phastic works for me!
- harry 17y ago
  Oh, I forgot to mention, the use of alcohol extends my 90 minute cycles to a maximum of about 120 minutes. I typically adjust my schedule to this if I am capable of doing so at the time. (I drink 3+ nights a week)
  - TrevorJ 17y ago
    So you have gone to the trouble of employing an extremely rigid sleep structure that requires a lot of self-control to maintain in order to gain back some productive time, but you reduce it's efficiency by 1.5 to 2 hours each week so that you can drink 3-4 nights a week? :)
    - harry 17y ago
      You'd better believe it! I feel I should mention that the time I am awake with this schedule I typically am 'rested' and very alert. I had issues adjusting to the 8-5 life because my body demands so much sleep natively. When I was getting 8-9 hours of continued sleep in one night I was waking up groggy and not really getting started until 1-2 in the afternoon. This cycle corrected it. It's also not as rigid as you'd expect. I can move the start and end times of the nap/bedtime around approximately +/- 2 hours and still feel alright. Altho a nap starting at >7pm just feels 'weird.' It's the full skippage of a nap that wrecks shop.
dave_au 17y ago
Kind of related - I tried the 28 hour day / 6 day week when I started my PhD. I could still code but I couldn't do theory - turned that part of my brain off like a switch. And even though I only did it for 1 or 2 weeks it took more than month for me to get back to feeling normal. It turns out a lot of systems in the body like that 24 hour thing. I'm glad I stopped before my digestive system got angry :) Still kind of glad that I tried it because a) I know I won't try anything like it when stakes are higher and b) the amount of discipline it took was roughly equivalent to the amount of discipline it takes to time manage myself to peak productivity on a regular sleep cycle.

60 points by thinkzig 17y ago

This is perhaps the post / experiment I most enjoyed with Pavlina. He wrote a lot of good stuff, I fell out of love with his stuff a year or so ago but this is one that I really enjoyed reading about.

thinkzig 17y ago
OP here and I agree with your assessment of the Pavlina blog's change over the past year. His earlier stuff was great but I've had a hard time digesting some of his newer topics. I posted this because there was a lot of interesting discussion on the Matt Mullenweg post in regards to his sleeping patterns. My lifestyle would make it hard for me to try polyphasic sleep, but I could see where it would help my productivity if I could pull it off.
- trickjarrett 17y ago
  Polyphasic sleep is something I consider the ultimate lifehack and something I see society moving towards in a cyberpunk / dystopia future as timezones become more and more irrelevant. BTW: I appreciate you putting the year of the post in the title.
  - JabavuAdams 17y ago
    Why should the future be dystopian?
  - maclifer 17y ago
    I meant to add kudos for that as well, thanks for mentioning that trickjarrett.

dmm 17y ago

Be sure to check out Piotr Wozniak's thoughts on polyphasic sleep: http://www.supermemo.com/help/faq/polyphasic.htm http://www.supermemo.com/help/faq/polyphasic.htm

crocowhile 17y ago
The article linked by OP is just plain wrong on so many aspects. The one linked here, OTHO, seems to get things quite right. I am a neuroscientist and I study sleep (genetics of sleep, to be precise); I am amused and intrigued by the amount of threads concerning sleep I found on HN. Only in the last week I think I could find 4 or so. May I suggest few hints on the matter? As a general rule: - there is no a common "minimum amount of sleep". Sleeping time, sleeping needs and ability to cope with sleep deprivation are different in different people. By the age of 30 you should definitely be able to know what your needs are. - the accepted rule is: if you need an alarm clock to wake up in the morning, then you are sleep deprived. sleep deprivation is detrimental for your performance - if you cannot achieve a night of resting sleep you might be experiencing a sleep problem. sleep apnea is very frequent and very likely if you are overweight. - don't believe of self-reported sleeping patterns, especially if they come from eccentric people or even worse if they date back centuries. Italian dictator Mussolini used to have one person staging in his office at night: he would leave the lights on and move around occasionally so that people looking at the window would believe the Duce never slept. The idea that sleep is for weak and superhero don't need sleep is just BS, of course. - Let me conclude with a thought. I like to hear your opinions about this. I do research for living and I have learned that putting way too much effort in a very risky business can be very dangerous for your motivation. If you work 80/90 hours a week on something that will fail (and startups, like research, have a high risk of failure) you may end up being so demotivated that you will likely not give yourself a second chance. What I want to say is: if you work so much that it gets to the point when is not fun any more, maybe you should consider slowing down.
- randallsquared 17y ago
  By the age of 30 you should definitely be able to know what your needs are. Well, except that it was around 30 that my needs started changing. Until then I often needed 8-9 hours a day of sleep, but sometime after 30 I noticed that I wasn't sleeping as long (and I'd long been out of the habit of using an alarm clock until last year, because I worked for myself and never scheduled anything in the early morning). Now my average is more like 7 hours a day, and it's not uncommon for me to wake up after 5 or 6 hours feeling just as rested as I used to after 9. Talking about sleep schedules with my father led to the interesting revelation that this happened to him about my age, and it continued decreasing right along, so that now, in his 80s, he's only sleeping about 4 hours a night, and doesn't feel that he needs more. So, I guess I've got that to look forward to. :)

icey 17y ago

It's certainly fascinating, but I'm not convinced it's sustainable. I'd like to see someone who has held this schedule up for a period of years.

Aximilation 17y ago
I'm coming up on three years now, for the one with the most experience, check out the pioneer, http://puredoxyk.com http://puredoxyk.com I found her articles on everything2 years ago and was intrigued. I recently started a blog about my polyphasic lifestyle, I may not be the best example as I don't follow a strict schedule, but I've stuck at it and it's worked well. My latest post was talking about if it really works, if you're interested, you can read it here: http://blog.aximilation.com/blog.php?p=68&more=1&c=1&tw=hn&tb=1&pb=1 http://blog.aximilation.com/blog.php?p=68&more=1&c=1... For those not wanting to read it, my consensus is that yes it works, but not for everyone with every lifestyle.
- icey 17y ago
  I've read parts of her blog, but I recall it seeming like it required a lot of regular effort to maintain that schedule; almost as though she was still fighting polyphasic sleep every day. Do you feel that it requires regular effort on your part to maintain that schedule? Do you feel any differences mentally?
  - pchristensen 17y ago
    My experience was that is wasn't a physical struggle to stay on the schedule - it was a social one. The world does not do polyphasic and you have to defend your time. I eventually crashed out when I was supposed to come home ad sleep after work but my wife took me to dinner instead. Being up for 7 hours straight wiped me out for a day and it was too socially challenging to keep it up.

CGamesPlay 17y ago

I tried this two years ago with a friend. We weren't able to do it for very long, and we had a lot of trouble staying to the schedule (and not oversleeping). Eventually, you reach this sort of zombie lucidity where you're awake and conscious, but you're not 100% there, in my opinion. I'm not sure if that affected my critical thinking skills, but certainly some part of me was always asleep on that schedule. Hey, maybe this would have gone away if we'd been able to stick to it for longer. It was absolutely one of the funnest experiments I have tried and I want to do it again sometime.

proee 17y ago
How long did you try this for?
- CGamesPlay 17y ago
  We were on the schedule for a total of about 2 weeks (widely regarded as not enough time).
pchristensen 17y ago
I got through about 2 weeks and while the first 4 days were hell, after that it was like a constant 90% alert. It was a little weird ever hitting 100%, but extremely weird not to space out and dip lower. I kept waiting to space out but it ever happened.

pchristensen 17y ago

Notes from my experience: http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/polyphasic-sleep-experiment-background/ http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/polyphasic-sleep-e... http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/category/polyphasic/ http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/category/polyphasi...

maclifer 17y ago

I thought that Steve Pavlina ended up writing some additional follow-up articles to his polyphasic experiment - make sure to read those, too. It didn't sound like something that would work for most people IMHO.

Aximilation 17y ago
Correct on both points. Steve called it quits quite a while ago, it's funny how his posts keep getting called up years after the fact. If you want more up to date info, google puredoxyk (founder) or jorel314 (collects links to current polyphasic sleepers)

sfphotoarts 17y ago

This seems like in our diurnal world to be living against the natural rhythm of things, but for space travelers, this seems like perfect prep for a trip. Maybe Steve should consult with NASA.

msluyter 17y ago

I was really intrigued by polyphasic sleep for a while, and used to fantasize about how much I could get done if I tried it. But realistically, I can barely tolerate typing 8 hrs a day as it is, and I have enough distractions and obsessions that it'd be rather unlikely that I'd spend that extra time doing much that was productive -- certainly, I wouldn't be programming.

harry 17y ago

I've been sleeping bi-phasitcally since I saw that article on lifehacker.com in 2005. Sleep cycle is 2:30AM - 7:00AM and another at 5:30PM - 7:00PM. Times are typically rough around the edges by 15 or so minutes. I'm a self diagnosed hypersomniac (I can sleep ALOT) it helps me feel very rested from a total of 6 hours as opposed to the 11-14 hours it typically takes for me to wake up naturally. "The downside to this sleep schedule is that it can be inflexible. I’ve read that you can delay naps by an hour if necessary, but missing a nap can cause a rapid crash that takes a while to recover from." This is very true. If I skip a nap one day after work, I typically pay for it by sleeping 2-3 times as long the next short cycle. It's definitely beneficial to me. Sleeping 10-12 hours a night and not being rested wastes alot of my not-at-work time and cuts into social obligations. Bi-phastic works for me!

harry 17y ago
Oh, I forgot to mention, the use of alcohol extends my 90 minute cycles to a maximum of about 120 minutes. I typically adjust my schedule to this if I am capable of doing so at the time. (I drink 3+ nights a week)
- TrevorJ 17y ago
  So you have gone to the trouble of employing an extremely rigid sleep structure that requires a lot of self-control to maintain in order to gain back some productive time, but you reduce it's efficiency by 1.5 to 2 hours each week so that you can drink 3-4 nights a week? :)
  - harry 17y ago
    You'd better believe it! I feel I should mention that the time I am awake with this schedule I typically am 'rested' and very alert. I had issues adjusting to the 8-5 life because my body demands so much sleep natively. When I was getting 8-9 hours of continued sleep in one night I was waking up groggy and not really getting started until 1-2 in the afternoon. This cycle corrected it. It's also not as rigid as you'd expect. I can move the start and end times of the nap/bedtime around approximately +/- 2 hours and still feel alright. Altho a nap starting at >7pm just feels 'weird.' It's the full skippage of a nap that wrecks shop.

dave_au 17y ago

Kind of related - I tried the 28 hour day / 6 day week when I started my PhD. I could still code but I couldn't do theory - turned that part of my brain off like a switch. And even though I only did it for 1 or 2 weeks it took more than month for me to get back to feeling normal. It turns out a lot of systems in the body like that 24 hour thing. I'm glad I stopped before my digestive system got angry :) Still kind of glad that I tried it because a) I know I won't try anything like it when stakes are higher and b) the amount of discipline it took was roughly equivalent to the amount of discipline it takes to time manage myself to peak productivity on a regular sleep cycle.