4 ms·

And yet people are talking about using VM images and the likes of Docker for deployment nowadays.

by rahoulb 13y ago

stormbrew 13y ago
There is definitely a level where the concept makes a lot of sense, but even with things like docker or vagrant or ec2 images there is still an expectation that you keep around enough information to replicate the image from scratch, be it a shell script or chef or puppet or a dockerfile. Smalltalk's images didn't really have this feature.
- rahoulb 13y ago
  I was always told to fileout my work and then filein into a blank image to remove any cruft that accumulates during development. That's pretty much the same?
  - hboon 13y ago
    There were 2 camps. I like to do my work with a single image over months, saving code to a native (Smalltalk) version control system. Just doing the occasional testing with a fresh image and loading my code in to verify things are doing fine, as well as when deploying.
    - igouy 13y ago
      There were people who worked with others, and people who didn't :-)
- igouy 13y ago
  >enough information to replicate the image from scratch... Smalltalk's images didn't really have this feature< Code changes in ST-80 (the Smalltalk made public in 1980) were automatically logged outside the image. There were (at least) 3 files: - the original source code provided with the implementation (.sou) - the replayable log of changes since the sources file was made (.cha) - the compiled bytecode and objects that make up the current state of the program (.im) The most basic approach to re-building was to take the vanilla sources file and vanilla image file provided by the vendor, and "fileIn" the changes you'd made from the change log. And then there were change sets. And later, a fine-grain method-level VCS database. iirc JPMorgan had 4 people employed just as code-librarians to work on code-reuse across their Smalltalk projects.
  - e12e 13y ago
    It's kind of funny that the closest thing to Smalltalk images in wide use are the world most popular object oriented programs: spreadsheet documents (and to an extent ms word documents).
- MarcusDenker 13y ago
  We are working on bootstrapping Pharo from source. Have a look here: https://github.com/guillep/PharoKernel https://github.com/guillep/PharoKernel But it's tricky and I guess it will take until Pharo4 or Pharo5 until this is in the main release

And yet people are talking about using VM images and the likes of Docker for deployment nowadays.

by rahoulb 13y ago

And yet people are talking about using VM images and the likes of Docker for deployment nowadays.

There is definitely a level where the concept makes a lot of sense, but even with things like docker or vagrant or ec2 images there is still an expectation that you keep around enough information to replicate the image from scratch, be it a shell script or chef or puppet or a dockerfile. Smalltalk's images didn't really have this feature.

rahoulb 13y ago
I was always told to fileout my work and then filein into a blank image to remove any cruft that accumulates during development. That's pretty much the same?
- hboon 13y ago
  There were 2 camps. I like to do my work with a single image over months, saving code to a native (Smalltalk) version control system. Just doing the occasional testing with a fresh image and loading my code in to verify things are doing fine, as well as when deploying.
  - igouy 13y ago
    There were people who worked with others, and people who didn't :-)
igouy 13y ago
>enough information to replicate the image from scratch... Smalltalk's images didn't really have this feature< Code changes in ST-80 (the Smalltalk made public in 1980) were automatically logged outside the image. There were (at least) 3 files: - the original source code provided with the implementation (.sou) - the replayable log of changes since the sources file was made (.cha) - the compiled bytecode and objects that make up the current state of the program (.im) The most basic approach to re-building was to take the vanilla sources file and vanilla image file provided by the vendor, and "fileIn" the changes you'd made from the change log. And then there were change sets. And later, a fine-grain method-level VCS database. iirc JPMorgan had 4 people employed just as code-librarians to work on code-reuse across their Smalltalk projects.
- e12e 13y ago
  It's kind of funny that the closest thing to Smalltalk images in wide use are the world most popular object oriented programs: spreadsheet documents (and to an extent ms word documents).
MarcusDenker 13y ago
We are working on bootstrapping Pharo from source. Have a look here: https://github.com/guillep/PharoKernel https://github.com/guillep/PharoKernel But it's tricky and I guess it will take until Pharo4 or Pharo5 until this is in the main release