7 ms·

Are you thinking, or are you farting?

16 points by ahoyhere 17y ago

noonespecial 17y ago
Link broken (goes to edit login). Try here: http://slash7.com http://slash7.com
- Jem 17y ago
  Or http://slash7.com/articles/2009/6/10/are-you-thinking-or-are-you-farting http://slash7.com/articles/2009/6/10/are-you-thinking-or-are... for the direct link :)
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
ahoyhere 17y ago
Oh my god, I'm an idiot. That'll teach me to try to use a utility for multiple clipboards. :( Yes, the direct link is http://slash7.com/articles/2009/6/10/are-you-thinking-or-are-you-farting http://slash7.com/articles/2009/6/10/are-you-thinking-or-are... D'oh.
- swombat 17y ago
  Can't you edit it to fix the link?
- Xichekolas 17y ago
  I assume one of the editors will fix it at some point... or you could resubmit.
  - swombat 17y ago
    It's already accumulated a fair few comments, I don't think resubmitting would be appropriate.
- ahoyhere 17y ago
  I can't edit the link. :(
wallflower 17y ago
Tangentially related. Asking "Why 5 times" "Taiichi Ohno is known to have said that "having no problems is the biggest problem of all." He viewed problems not as a negative but as a "Kaizen opportunity in disguise." Whenever problems arose, he encouraged his staff to investigate the problem at the source and to as "ask ‘why’ five times about every matter" http://www.shmula.com/382/ask-why-five-times-about-every-matter http://www.shmula.com/382/ask-why-five-times-about-every-mat... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Whys http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Whys
- sfphotoarts 17y ago
  5, of course, being utterly arbitrary, and even when it does work, its largely luck. Root cause analysis is a science, why5 is guess work, done 5 times.
blackdog 17y ago
observation without judgment seems very similar to the idea of mindfulness explored in vipassana meditation.
- ahoyhere 17y ago
  Yes, vipassana meditation changed my life. But I want to follow Terry Pratchett's lead and teach unobtrusively. He's really good at it. So, as a step 1, I didn't ever use the words Buddhism or meditation.
  - blackdog 17y ago
    enlightenment on the down-low! Sneaky.
KazamaSmokers 17y ago
Are we human, or are we dancer?
- ahoyhere 17y ago
  Arggggh, why did you have to bring that up? I'm going to have to drink it out of my head later today.
abstractbill 17y ago
Thought 1: I want to make a forum. Here's how I will make the front page that lists all the forums, making it clean and easy to see the most popular stuff, even if it's older... Thought 2: But wait. Do I need a front page that lists all the forums? Am I optimizing instead of thinking? Thought 3: Are forums really the right tool for the job? Thought 4: How would I recognize the right tool for the job? What does communication mean? How does this change on the internet? I do this, but unlike the author I've come to regard it as generally a bad habit. Too much thinking gets in the way of doing. These days I try to avoid over-thinking everything, and concentrate on just making something - anything, and seeing what happens when I launch it.
- nazgulnarsil 17y ago
  instead of imaginary iteration just switch to actual iteration. at some point you run into technical/time constraints and the problem is solved for you.
- ahoyhere 17y ago
  It depends on what your goal is. My goal is to innovate in design. So for me, it's definitely the best course. But, think about applying those 4 levels of thinking to your problem with overthinking. It works great on personal issues too. ;)
- sfphotoarts 17y ago
  this is sometimes a good idea, sometimes not (think Space flight, for example). The current thinking, probably stemming from Google's design-by-stats methodology is that this scales down to startups, you build something and morph it based on feedback. We used to call that design by committee, but clearly when you give it a new name its a different animal :) I think what's more likely to have happened is that the problems have changed from things like best way to compress these bytes, faster state machine for this network stream, better LCS algorithm to find my n-gram etc, to problems that involve many social factors for their success. When this happens the only way to find those factors is to involve the social community that is creating them. Often those doing the iteration/refine cycle with the developers are not the same as those ultimately using a product, but when it works, it works well. Software is seeing a shift towards large scale problems, like making the accumulated history of mankind available to anyone, anywhere; or supporting complex life decisions; or connecting and staying connected with multiple disparate sets of 'friends, etc. These are radically different problems being solved in different ways. But not every problem is solved best this way.
swombat 17y ago
It's a cycle of awesomeness. I'm not convinced... It's an interesting article, but it seems to me this cycle can just as easily devolve into mental masturbation. "I'm thinking X. Am I thinking this because Y or Z? What's the meaning of thought anyway?" Keep doing this for too long and you might turn into some kind of philosopher. Now, I agree that some self-examination is essential (as Socrates put it, the unexamined life is not worth living), but I'd argue that what's needed is a balance between thinking and doing. And doing requires putting aside all those fabulous thoughts and focusing on the task at hand for a while. The two are not exclusive, nor is one superior to the other. They are a bit like Reason and Passion in Khalil Gibran's writings (http://www.katsandogz.com/onreason.html http://www.katsandogz.com/onreason.html): Your reason and your passion are the rudder and the sails of your seafaring soul. If either your sails or your rudder be broken, you can but toss and drift, or else be held at a standstill in mid-seas. For reason, ruling alone, is a force confining; and passion, unattended, is a flame that burns to its own destruction. Therefore let your soul exalt your reason to the height of passion, that it may sing; And let it direct your passion with reason, that your passion may live through its own daily resurrection, and like the phoenix rise above its own ashes. I would have you consider your judgment and your appetite even as you would two loved guests in your house. Surely you would not honour one guest above the other; for he who is more mindful of one loses the love and the faith of both. Among the hills, when you sit in the cool shade of the white poplars, sharing the peace and serenity of distant fields and meadows -- then let your heart say in silence, "God rests in reason." And when the storm comes, and the mighty wind shakes the forest, and thunder and lightning proclaim the majesty of the sky -- then let your heart say in awe, "God moves in passion." And since you are a breath in God's sphere, and a leaf in God's forest, you too should rest in reason and move in passion.
- kirse 17y ago
  "I'm thinking X. Am I thinking this because Y or Z? What's the meaning of thought anyway?" In the thought example about the "Milk" in the article I found myself asking "Who does that?" and now I'm wondering if that helps further explain to me how women tend to think into things. I'm curious to know here who would have gone onto thought #3 in the milk example? If I'm enjoying something I'm simply enjoying it... I'm not trying to determine if I'm really NOT enjoying it and thus trying to convince myself that I AM enjoying it.

16 points by ahoyhere 17y ago

noonespecial 17y ago

Link broken (goes to edit login). Try here: http://slash7.com http://slash7.com

Jem 17y ago
Or http://slash7.com/articles/2009/6/10/are-you-thinking-or-are-you-farting http://slash7.com/articles/2009/6/10/are-you-thinking-or-are... for the direct link :)

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

ahoyhere 17y ago

Oh my god, I'm an idiot. That'll teach me to try to use a utility for multiple clipboards. :( Yes, the direct link is http://slash7.com/articles/2009/6/10/are-you-thinking-or-are-you-farting http://slash7.com/articles/2009/6/10/are-you-thinking-or-are... D'oh.

swombat 17y ago
Can't you edit it to fix the link?
Xichekolas 17y ago
I assume one of the editors will fix it at some point... or you could resubmit.
- swombat 17y ago
  It's already accumulated a fair few comments, I don't think resubmitting would be appropriate.
ahoyhere 17y ago
I can't edit the link. :(

wallflower 17y ago

Tangentially related. Asking "Why 5 times" "Taiichi Ohno is known to have said that "having no problems is the biggest problem of all." He viewed problems not as a negative but as a "Kaizen opportunity in disguise." Whenever problems arose, he encouraged his staff to investigate the problem at the source and to as "ask ‘why’ five times about every matter" http://www.shmula.com/382/ask-why-five-times-about-every-matter http://www.shmula.com/382/ask-why-five-times-about-every-mat... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Whys http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Whys

sfphotoarts 17y ago
5, of course, being utterly arbitrary, and even when it does work, its largely luck. Root cause analysis is a science, why5 is guess work, done 5 times.

blackdog 17y ago

observation without judgment seems very similar to the idea of mindfulness explored in vipassana meditation.

ahoyhere 17y ago
Yes, vipassana meditation changed my life. But I want to follow Terry Pratchett's lead and teach unobtrusively. He's really good at it. So, as a step 1, I didn't ever use the words Buddhism or meditation.
- blackdog 17y ago
  enlightenment on the down-low! Sneaky.

KazamaSmokers 17y ago

Are we human, or are we dancer?

ahoyhere 17y ago
Arggggh, why did you have to bring that up? I'm going to have to drink it out of my head later today.

abstractbill 17y ago

Thought 1: I want to make a forum. Here's how I will make the front page that lists all the forums, making it clean and easy to see the most popular stuff, even if it's older... Thought 2: But wait. Do I need a front page that lists all the forums? Am I optimizing instead of thinking? Thought 3: Are forums really the right tool for the job? Thought 4: How would I recognize the right tool for the job? What does communication mean? How does this change on the internet? I do this, but unlike the author I've come to regard it as generally a bad habit. Too much thinking gets in the way of doing. These days I try to avoid over-thinking everything, and concentrate on just making something - anything, and seeing what happens when I launch it.

nazgulnarsil 17y ago
instead of imaginary iteration just switch to actual iteration. at some point you run into technical/time constraints and the problem is solved for you.
ahoyhere 17y ago
It depends on what your goal is. My goal is to innovate in design. So for me, it's definitely the best course. But, think about applying those 4 levels of thinking to your problem with overthinking. It works great on personal issues too. ;)
sfphotoarts 17y ago
this is sometimes a good idea, sometimes not (think Space flight, for example). The current thinking, probably stemming from Google's design-by-stats methodology is that this scales down to startups, you build something and morph it based on feedback. We used to call that design by committee, but clearly when you give it a new name its a different animal :) I think what's more likely to have happened is that the problems have changed from things like best way to compress these bytes, faster state machine for this network stream, better LCS algorithm to find my n-gram etc, to problems that involve many social factors for their success. When this happens the only way to find those factors is to involve the social community that is creating them. Often those doing the iteration/refine cycle with the developers are not the same as those ultimately using a product, but when it works, it works well. Software is seeing a shift towards large scale problems, like making the accumulated history of mankind available to anyone, anywhere; or supporting complex life decisions; or connecting and staying connected with multiple disparate sets of 'friends, etc. These are radically different problems being solved in different ways. But not every problem is solved best this way.

swombat 17y ago

It's a cycle of awesomeness. I'm not convinced... It's an interesting article, but it seems to me this cycle can just as easily devolve into mental masturbation. "I'm thinking X. Am I thinking this because Y or Z? What's the meaning of thought anyway?" Keep doing this for too long and you might turn into some kind of philosopher. Now, I agree that some self-examination is essential (as Socrates put it, the unexamined life is not worth living), but I'd argue that what's needed is a balance between thinking and doing. And doing requires putting aside all those fabulous thoughts and focusing on the task at hand for a while. The two are not exclusive, nor is one superior to the other. They are a bit like Reason and Passion in Khalil Gibran's writings (http://www.katsandogz.com/onreason.html http://www.katsandogz.com/onreason.html): Your reason and your passion are the rudder and the sails of your seafaring soul. If either your sails or your rudder be broken, you can but toss and drift, or else be held at a standstill in mid-seas. For reason, ruling alone, is a force confining; and passion, unattended, is a flame that burns to its own destruction. Therefore let your soul exalt your reason to the height of passion, that it may sing; And let it direct your passion with reason, that your passion may live through its own daily resurrection, and like the phoenix rise above its own ashes. I would have you consider your judgment and your appetite even as you would two loved guests in your house. Surely you would not honour one guest above the other; for he who is more mindful of one loses the love and the faith of both. Among the hills, when you sit in the cool shade of the white poplars, sharing the peace and serenity of distant fields and meadows -- then let your heart say in silence, "God rests in reason." And when the storm comes, and the mighty wind shakes the forest, and thunder and lightning proclaim the majesty of the sky -- then let your heart say in awe, "God moves in passion." And since you are a breath in God's sphere, and a leaf in God's forest, you too should rest in reason and move in passion.

kirse 17y ago
"I'm thinking X. Am I thinking this because Y or Z? What's the meaning of thought anyway?" In the thought example about the "Milk" in the article I found myself asking "Who does that?" and now I'm wondering if that helps further explain to me how women tend to think into things. I'm curious to know here who would have gone onto thought #3 in the milk example? If I'm enjoying something I'm simply enjoying it... I'm not trying to determine if I'm really NOT enjoying it and thus trying to convince myself that I AM enjoying it.