2 ms·

In Italy tax authorities have grown more and more powerful during the last years. At some point, they were suggesting checking all personal bank accounts and ex

by kfk 13y ago

In Italy tax authorities have grown more and more powerful during the last years. At some point, they were suggesting checking all personal bank accounts and expenditures. Think on the consequences of this. By the way, in the AirBnB case, you can always have police pretending to rent flats to get the tax offenders. This would protect privacy and scare offenders.

Xylakant 13y ago
Or - gasp - AirBnB could collect and pay the tax on behalf of the flat owner. That would protect privacy and eliminate offenders.
- sitkack 13y ago
  But then AirBnB couldn't keep riding the ridiculous gravy train it is on. They are just front loading their bank account while claiming "this a new emerging market that we are all trying to figure out." at the expense of all users in the system.
- Fomite 13y ago
  Pretending taxes are someone else's problem is a grand dotcom tradition.
triplesec 13y ago
Nobody in Italy pays tax, which is why their finances are almost as bad as Greece's. And then there's ologarchs like Berlusconi, and the MAfia. Makes law requirements different
- kfk 13y ago
  This is absolutely not true. People pay taxes in Italy, actually, they have one of the highest tax burden in the world. Do inform yourself a bit on the topic. It's way more complex than you think.
  - dangerscarf 13y ago
    The issue isn't the tax burden, it's high rate of tax evasion. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/25/world/europe/italy-tries-to-raise-the-social-stigma-on-tax-evasion.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/25/world/europe/italy-tries-t... http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/world/europe/italys-new-tool-for-tax-cheats-the-redditometro.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/world/europe/italys-new-to... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303753904577450572381475782.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405270230375390457745...
    - kfk 13y ago
      It's both: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2221.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/... There are people that do not pay taxes, but they are compensated by those who pay. The net effect is actually that the tax burden vs GDP in Italy is higher than in places like, say, Germany. The reason Italy has a high public debt is not tax evasion, is excessive public spending. The reason many business are failing is not tax evasion, is a crazy tax law that kills many to reward few. That is why many Italian hate taxes, because they are unjust.
      - triplesec 13y ago
        that's reasonable analysis, and my initila argument was deliberately simplisitc just to make a point, rather than to complexify Italian taxation systems. You and your interlocutors among you seem to have covered this nicely for anyone who was interested in the details (which I didn't have time for).
  - riquito 13y ago
    "people pay taxes in Italy" You wanted to say "some people", since a third of the people don't pay them (see the Uif research published in 2012). It's a huge number. Do inform yourself a bit on the topic. It's way more easier than you think.
    - 13y ago
- roel_v 13y ago
  Hear hear. Italy is a textbook example of the reason we need some form of tax office with powers to check people's finances (as much as I hate to admit it): because otherwise nobody will pay taxes yet demand ever-increasing benefits from the government that somebody else has to pay for.
  - CaptainZapp 13y ago
    Actually tax collection works quite well in Switzerland and even though tax declarations are based on self declaration (albeit based on an earning statement by the employer) tax evasion, or even - fraud is relatively low. This is despite bank secrecy laws (which only apply in case of tax evasion, but not - fraud). A big reason is simpleness of the tax declaration, transparency and - overall fairness of the tax code. Even though it's a rather progressive system.
    - selectodude 13y ago
      I think it's just cultural more than anything. The simplicity of paying your taxes and the tax code there has absolutely nothing to do with it.
    - kfk 13y ago
      selectodude, it's not cultural in the way you think. It's cultural in the way that Italians have created a perverse system in which some people don't pay much taxes and many people pay a lot. It's not cultural in the sense that the single Italian is genetically born not to pay taxes. It's a matter of incentives for the individuals, not culture.
jzzskijj 13y ago
In Italy tax authorities have grown more and more powerful during the last years. At some point, they were suggesting checking all personal bank accounts and expenditures. At least I've seen in a documentary where Italians tell they choose not to pay taxes. If there is a law to pay taxes and people can choose not to pay taxes, then some sort of enforcement has to be done. Especially because Italy's finances are in ruins and as an EU citizen I think it is Italians' responsibility to step up first, not EUs.

by kfk 13y ago

Xylakant 13y ago

Or - gasp - AirBnB could collect and pay the tax on behalf of the flat owner. That would protect privacy and eliminate offenders.

sitkack 13y ago
But then AirBnB couldn't keep riding the ridiculous gravy train it is on. They are just front loading their bank account while claiming "this a new emerging market that we are all trying to figure out." at the expense of all users in the system.
Fomite 13y ago
Pretending taxes are someone else's problem is a grand dotcom tradition.

triplesec 13y ago

Nobody in Italy pays tax, which is why their finances are almost as bad as Greece's. And then there's ologarchs like Berlusconi, and the MAfia. Makes law requirements different

kfk 13y ago
This is absolutely not true. People pay taxes in Italy, actually, they have one of the highest tax burden in the world. Do inform yourself a bit on the topic. It's way more complex than you think.
- dangerscarf 13y ago
  The issue isn't the tax burden, it's high rate of tax evasion. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/25/world/europe/italy-tries-to-raise-the-social-stigma-on-tax-evasion.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/25/world/europe/italy-tries-t... http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/world/europe/italys-new-tool-for-tax-cheats-the-redditometro.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/world/europe/italys-new-to... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303753904577450572381475782.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405270230375390457745...
  - kfk 13y ago
    It's both: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2221.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/... There are people that do not pay taxes, but they are compensated by those who pay. The net effect is actually that the tax burden vs GDP in Italy is higher than in places like, say, Germany. The reason Italy has a high public debt is not tax evasion, is excessive public spending. The reason many business are failing is not tax evasion, is a crazy tax law that kills many to reward few. That is why many Italian hate taxes, because they are unjust.
    - triplesec 13y ago
      that's reasonable analysis, and my initila argument was deliberately simplisitc just to make a point, rather than to complexify Italian taxation systems. You and your interlocutors among you seem to have covered this nicely for anyone who was interested in the details (which I didn't have time for).
- riquito 13y ago
  "people pay taxes in Italy" You wanted to say "some people", since a third of the people don't pay them (see the Uif research published in 2012). It's a huge number. Do inform yourself a bit on the topic. It's way more easier than you think.
  - 13y ago
roel_v 13y ago
Hear hear. Italy is a textbook example of the reason we need some form of tax office with powers to check people's finances (as much as I hate to admit it): because otherwise nobody will pay taxes yet demand ever-increasing benefits from the government that somebody else has to pay for.
- CaptainZapp 13y ago
  Actually tax collection works quite well in Switzerland and even though tax declarations are based on self declaration (albeit based on an earning statement by the employer) tax evasion, or even - fraud is relatively low. This is despite bank secrecy laws (which only apply in case of tax evasion, but not - fraud). A big reason is simpleness of the tax declaration, transparency and - overall fairness of the tax code. Even though it's a rather progressive system.
  - selectodude 13y ago
    I think it's just cultural more than anything. The simplicity of paying your taxes and the tax code there has absolutely nothing to do with it.
  - kfk 13y ago
    selectodude, it's not cultural in the way you think. It's cultural in the way that Italians have created a perverse system in which some people don't pay much taxes and many people pay a lot. It's not cultural in the sense that the single Italian is genetically born not to pay taxes. It's a matter of incentives for the individuals, not culture.

jzzskijj 13y ago

In Italy tax authorities have grown more and more powerful during the last years. At some point, they were suggesting checking all personal bank accounts and expenditures. At least I've seen in a documentary where Italians tell they choose not to pay taxes. If there is a law to pay taxes and people can choose not to pay taxes, then some sort of enforcement has to be done. Especially because Italy's finances are in ruins and as an EU citizen I think it is Italians' responsibility to step up first, not EUs.